madeuce65

No More Fixed FB Locations

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I'm seeing more instances of the enemy pre-camping FBs once the EFB has been blown.  Isn't it possible to randomly generate these locations on the map to encourage more friendly recon for INF and ACs and discourage pre-camping from the opposing side?  If these locations can't be randomly generated, then perhaps more than one 'possible' location could be added in-game to actually make FBs hard to find.  To my mind, an FB should be more mobile (like a FRU or FMS) and less like a fixed forward spawn point.

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Agreed, last night I spawned in our FB and within -- literally -- seconds a laffly was there putting down an EFMS.  Randomising the location sounds good, but as long as the enemy can just click on your town and have the FB show up on the map, that won't make a difference.  The situation will not improve unless the location of enemy FBs are removed from the map.

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I'd have to think on this a bit more.  But basically agree.

There should be no FBs in the game at all. Instead, FBs would be created just like MSs are.

Maybe you drive a truck out and set a FMS, that is stage 1 (inf light atg/AA)  After some time (maybe with truck still there and engr or not?) the FMS turns into a FBMS - meaning you can now spawn everything at it.

Or, maybe when creating the MS - an option asks, MS or FBMS?  each flag is allowed one FBMS - so a town with 3 flags could have 3 FBs to an attacked town.

If town supply, i.e. no flags, maybe allow one FBMS for each AB in the originating town.

HE would still remove the FBMS.

Edited by delems
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Player placed FBs would be great for gameplay variety. I would just like to point out a couple things regarding their possible implementation. 

First of all there's an area of the map suited to their testing where one might see how they work and hone their characteristics, and that is the area between connected towns without FBs - perfect testing grounds. You could allow them only there to see how they play before full implementation. No need to end the current FB system - for risky, map wide, game changing, possibly resource heavy alterations - in order to try them out.

Secondly, though the Rats are not currently able to do map work, the FBs are here now, gone later elements. They could probably be eliminated from the landscape via coding that would simply turn them all off. Of course, not sure how simple it would be to code the FBs and their effects on supply and spawning out of the game, but it may be quite feasible without any direct map work.

 

Edited by biggles4

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Even though I LOVE blowing up FBs, I like the idea of random locations or a side having to place them.  The idea that, when a town is going to be contested, your side can automatically have a base near the town from which to stage is somewhat silly.  Blow up the enemy's FB and elves suddenly stop making shoes, come out of the trees, and build you a FB (out of gratitude?).  :)  Really?

 

It would also give recon something more to do, both ground and air.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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23 hours ago, odonovan1 said:

Irish

Here is my idea of sorts

propose location for FB to HC.
Location would of course have to fit into the ruleset/mechanic similar to how you do FM's now
Cant be within X distance of an existing enemy structure, can not extend beyond your supply reach (so no 3 towns behind enemy lines)
basically go out, scout a location, find suitable location, place flag marker, HC can see flag marker ( to make sure no one is griefing / wasting everyones time by putting an FB where its absolutely worthless) and approves it.
BING! there is the center of your FB.
Now run your guys out to place the spawns, have not decided on an exact number of pieces placed per spawn but im thinking more than 1 or 2, have it take a little effort you know? Have to be within X meters of flag piece so FB does not wind up being 1.8km long.
Add in optional pieces, gun bunkers, sandbag pits, etc. Things to make a GOOD defensible location (or you could require them?)
Add more PPO's to the trucks and engineers to do this.
I would be ok with allowing placement of some of the AI units, but only if there was a low MAX amount allowed per AB, like 4 mg towers, 2 atg, 1 aa?
I dont know if thats easily doable by the game though.

And do not limit having an FB to the lack of the other guy having an FB, let FBs go to war with each other.
Distance rules will prevent overlapping an enemy FB radius, allow friendly FB overlaps if they want them.
And allow the BDE to move into the FB

Long term, get the BDE's out of the towns.
Leave A BDE Command office (or the HQ), a limited spawn rear guard, and the towns normal supply routing functions.
If an FB gets cut off, dont kill it!
Leave it exist, just set its resupply timer to infinity.
No reason it should cease to exist if cut off, let it try to fight.

As for destroying an FB, let us take a step backwards
Return to allowing any HE device 37mm and up, any bomb size, and any satchel (no AP no bullets no grenades no mortars)
To do damage to the FB.
But unlike before, set the damage threshold very high so that destroying an FB is a combat event in itself, that no truck full of engineers, or lone 88 on the hill, or single wayward bomber is going to pull off.

FB destroyed with no retreating link, BDE destroyed, off map.
FB destroyed with retreating link, BDE bounced to town, supply influx on trickle effect, perhaps with some kind of % of units lost.

FB's do not display on open map except to HC ranks
FB's only display on mission map when spawning in, much like FMs.
To make a mission at FB, pick BDE, type FB in origin, select destination as normal.

In the event HC is not on (They are real people, they can have emergencies, get sick, have to work late etc) put in a function for Otto Bot to approve in absence of HC
maybe like so.
n00b has placed an FB flag, sees no HC are on.
n00b types .vote fb
System sends a side message stating Player n00b has proposed an FB location and HC can not be raised, do you approve his location?
side players type .approve n00b fb.
As long as X% of the online players approve, FB happens.

So what if FB exists but BDE is still sitting in town?
Give FB the same limited spawn pool that town would have with just the BDE command in it. just a rear guard contingent.
Maybe like 20 rifles, 2 Engineers, 4 small AA, 4 small ATG, 2 light tanks, 2 trucks.
(The engineers are to build the fortifications, trucks would build the big pieces, engineers the smaller, riflemen filling in the gaps.)

And that is probably an a$$load of programming work.

To move an FB, propose new location, build new FB, on completion the BDE has XX minutes to move to new FB, move back to town, or if it doesnt move, it gets auto bounced back to town on slow trickle.

I should probably note, i am not envisioning an FB being 1 veh tent and 1 inf tent cluster.
I am thinking it would require say 4 veh tents, that do not have to be side by side, and at least 8 infantry tents that can also be spread out anywhere within X X meters of the flag marker, perhaps more? And several storage objects, even though currently they won't have a function, and some of the fortifications should be a mandatory part of the FB.

 

EDIT
i seem to kill a thread every time with this :( 
Sorry op

Edited by merlin51
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5085afa32b067107277ad9aa5b50ef4fb901711a

THREAD REZ!!!

 

I know it's unrealistic to expect changes like this anytime soon, but it would be SWEET to see a lot of these ideas implemented.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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I suggested this years ago when they were talking about PPO stuff.

You would have a zone and distance restriction as to where you can place one.

I also suggested you could have 3 levels of an FB.

  1. 1st level would be limited as to what you can spawn and tier restriction. It would also look small.
  2. mid level would increase 60% of present spawn lists.
  3. top level you would have 100%

The size changes with level. Top would have fuel tanks, ammo dump, etc. Also the amount of charges to blow it would change with level. Etc.

When placed it will be useful up to 4 hours with non-use. So spawn in once and hour and it will hang around for ever as long as you have brigs in the town of origin.

You can place anywhere in the zone of construction. The more engineers used the faster the build. You will have to go thru each level. All tents, fuel tanks, etc will have to be in a 1k radius of build point. You can move it around at build time. Fuel here, inf tents there, etc. Hide it in the forest...... Also it would have a sound too of construction.

The more brigs you have in town of origin, the more FBs you can build. The enemy can also do same. So you can have one per brig from each side. Makes life more interesting.

And finally, if you boot the brig from a town, that FB goes bub bye. 

Taking over terrain would become a little more important. Technically you could have and enemy FB besides yours. oorah!

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@imded

Interesting, somewhat reminds me of an RTS kind of, building and upgrading your base.
FM kind of serves as a tiny FB of sorts already though if you think about it.
The idea i cool, but since I, myself personally, would intent for the FB's to be solely built and set up by the players themselves, their engineers their trucks their riflemen, i'd want to keep it fairly simple, one set of rules to learn, build it and done.
HC's main function in it would be to offer helpful advise on location (but not dictate) and help prevent purposeful grievous placement, it would otherwise be an absolutely player operated affair, layout would be freeform, just requiring to be in range of the center marker (Flag) and building enough of the required object types.
And of course give a nice variety of extra defensive objects that they can place to help defend the FB

Personally i prefer the concept of getting the BDE's out of the towns and having the FB's be perm unless moved by BDE, removed by HC, or destroyed by enemy, and removing the absolute pinnacle importance of fixed locations aside from showing territory ownerships.

Once a BDE moved out of the town, the enemy would have no idea where they are, nor what other brigades have FBs in range, plus they know that rushing in and managing a quick cap wont remove the FB or route the brigade, Oh it will cut it off, it's resupply timer will freeze it wont get ANY replacement units, But you now have an angry brigade cut off in the field who knows exactly where you have gone, they know exactly where to find you now. Now the question is, is it coming for you? Or is it in a position to cut you, relink it self via one of your towns, maybe it has already set its sites on a target of yours of higher value, and is willing to temporarily sacrifice that town.
Do you roll those dice? or do you get air and ground recon going and try to destroy them in the field before advancing the real estate?

And i dont want any number of charges per say to blow the FB.
I would want it vulnerable to anything 37mm HE and up, and requiring enough damage that taking one out requires as much effort as taking a defended town.
 

The idea is to get people out fighting in the hills and valleys and forests and fields and all that lovely terrain that we really do not see a lot.

Its may even slow down the map, so the campaigns will run longer, tiers will progress more during the campaign, fights will move away from the urban combat
to something that is more inline with how it was
 

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On 7/17/2017 at 4:29 PM, madeuce65 said:

I'm seeing more instances of the enemy pre-camping FBs once the EFB has been blown.  Isn't it possible to randomly generate these locations on the map to encourage more friendly recon for INF and ACs and discourage pre-camping from the opposing side?  If these locations can't be randomly generated, then perhaps more than one 'possible' location could be added in-game to actually make FBs hard to find.  To my mind, an FB should be more mobile (like a FRU or FMS) and less like a fixed forward spawn point.

Forward bases are part of the terrain engine. Since our new team is not yet versed in managing the terrain editor or deploying any new terrain this isn't an option to consider unfortunately. Your points are logical all the same. Working on Terrain is one of those big goals of mine that I hope (with more resources) we can achieve over the next year post-Steam's deployment. 

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What about the other side actually having to PLACE their FB, once the enemy's has been blown?  Like an other PPO, it would take a unit (or more than one) a certain amount of time, during which they would be vulnerable.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

Edited by odonovan1

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