captcrayon

Steam release date?

47 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Scking said:

If you can no longer pay premium or starter, the subscription should go to Free Play subscription imo.. shouldn’t freeze. If it does (which I will check) then I think CRS should consider a fix with that. They have to think 2 sides now as they have a system on the Playnet side and Steam side. 

I think CRS should explore advertisement options for Free Play subscribers every time they either change brigades or change personas (can’t do every spawn as that could really inhibit game play). If they did that, maybe they could bring the starter account back down to $4.99 a month as they would have advertising revenue to help.

Well they have had 17 years to consider this. No doubt that many people have complained about it.

Alas, it is another thing CRS don't want to change.

IMO, $4.99 is still far beyond what CRS are actually spending on the game. When you do the economics of each update in the 17 years, there isn't a single thing which jumps out as requiring even more cash. The most costly part of any development cycle (apart from payroll) is engine upgrades and the rent or purchase of other software to compliment the engine. There has been none of this since the very first initial development before release.

At that time the Rats came up with subscription figures which would cover their costs.

They did not see the need to then have a million different layers of Builder account and all these other, quite frankly, "bit dodgy looking" ways of obtaining vast sums extra from the playerbase. 

 

So now that software overall is much much cheaper than it was back then, CRS consists of a tiny group of people to payroll, server hardware is cheap as chips.... The price of a sub goes...up? Despite all the Builder accounts? That makes no sense.

If CRS would disclose just how many active subs there are, I expect we could have some fun times with math. But they seem more than willing to not disclose this figure.

Where did the money all the Builders raised even go? I understand a new programmer would have taken a share, but what about the rest which was supposed to be spent on hardware and software which is still evidently missing from the game?

Edited by calyx6

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If I remember correctly during the last fund drive the rats clearly stated where the money was going to.  

Remember xoom and his band of merry men haven't had the helm for very long, and in my opinion they have come along way even if you don't see it directly on the playing field.  Everything was old and antiqued and badly needed upgrading.

Personally, I would like to see another fund drive that can be wet aside for the cost of installing the unreal engine.  This of course would be implemented once steam subscriptions are tallied.

 

 

Edited by Baer

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11 minutes ago, Baer said:

If I remember correctly during the last fund drive the rats clearly stated where the money was going to.  

Remember xoom and his band of merry men haven't had the helm for very long, and in my opinion they have come along way even if you don't see it directly on the playing field.  Everything was old and antiqued and badly needed upgrading.

Personally, I would like to see another fund drive that can be wet aside for the cost of installing the unreal engine.  This of course would be implemented once steam subscriptions are tallied.

 

 

Or maybe they could actually put some hours in and upgrade their own engine?

Very few indie devs are lucky enough to get the freedom of their own custom engine. Changing to UE 4231 (or whatever version it will be by that time) will be far more expensive and restrictive than an internal upgrade

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14 minutes ago, Baer said:

If I remember correctly during the last fund drive the rats clearly stated where the money was going to.  

Remember xoom and his band of merry men haven't had the helm for very long, and in my opinion they have come along way even if you don't see it directly on the playing field.  Everything was old and antiqued and badly needed upgrading.

Personally, I would like to see another fund drive that can be wet aside for the cost of installing the unreal engine.  This of course would be implemented once steam subscriptions are tallied.

 

 

Correct about the newer development team.. Need to get 17 years of development out of our minds.. I believe if I heard correctly, Unreal Engine is free to develop on but have to pay fees when you release your game.. 

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2 minutes ago, Scking said:

 

Correct about the newer development team.. Need to get 17 years of development out of our minds.. I believe if I heard correctly, Unreal Engine is free to develop on but have to pay fees when you release your game.. 

It's "free" (with many restrictions) up until you earn a certain amount from your game. With this game having sub fees, that limit will be reached in no time and CRS will be charged for the engine for the rest of the life of the game

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The current engine is so old it farts dust.  No way they can do any upgrades on it.  Time to go to UNREAL which I think some of the developers name dropped they would be most interested in.  

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1 hour ago, calyx6 said:

The most costly part of any development cycle (apart from payroll) is engine upgrades and the rent or purchase of other software to compliment the engine. There has been none of this since the very first initial development before release.

 

False.

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9 minutes ago, xanthus said:

 

False.

Care to back up your statement or is that all?

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3 hours ago, calyx6 said:

Care to back up your statement or is that all?

 

5 hours ago, calyx6 said:

The most costly part of any development cycle (apart from payroll) is engine upgrades

One example (circa 2009):

https://www.wwiionline.com/index.php/component/content/article/3012-playnet-announces-unity-3d-upgrade

5 hours ago, calyx6 said:

and the rent or purchase of other software to compliment the engine.

Another example:

In 2004, for version 1.13, CRS debuted the results of their licensing of SpeedTree software, still responsible for what we see in the game today (which was not cheap afaik).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpeedTree

https://wiki.wwiionline.com/view/Terrain

 

Edited by xanthus

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4 hours ago, calyx6 said:

Care to back up your statement or is that all?

I think he means there are other large costs.
The game host equipment and upgrades, location, and network would be one.
Large low latency dedicated pipes with guaranteed uptime dont come cheap.
Even a 40/40 T3 with 99% guaranteed uptime and sub 40ms latency can run between 2k to 3k monthly

Data and information to accurately recreate the units, from their armor to their engines and transmissions, rifles and period wartime ammunition etc
is expensive to buy and hard to get sometimes.

And probably lots of other things, licensing, legal, insurance, office space, etc etc.

And no one here that does not work there actually has any idea what's been purchased and what has not.
I dont see the devs wearing Abercrombe and Rolexes, so it aint going there...
 

edit
some reason this did not post hours ago when i clicked to post
Xanthus already answered since then.
gee thats awkward :( 

Edited by merlin51
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1 hour ago, Baer said:

The current engine is so old it farts dust.  No way they can do any upgrades on it.  Time to go to UNREAL which I think some of the developers name dropped they would be most interested in.

It's not quite that old, it did get an update in 2009, I havent had an update since.. well we wont mention that.

You realize when you are talking about the unreal engine, you are not talking about the actual game engine right?
It would just be the 3d renderer that they would most likely be using, the actual part that i would call the game engine(s), what makes the game actually work, i dont think unreal would do in any fashion that this game is designed in, the ballistics simulation, the flight model, the vehicle model etc.

You may already get that, just noting it because others may not understand that

Unity, what we use for rendering now can be upgraded, not sure on the cost is though for Unityv2017 enterprise license? Nor a Unreal license for commercial subscription use for that matter.

Unity probably has a wider machine spec spread can run on lesser PC's and multi platform support, though i dont think we will see WWII Online Android anytime soon.

These are all done in unity3d (Yea some look retarded but)

 

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8 hours ago, merlin51 said:

Unity, what we use for rendering now can be upgraded, not sure on the cost is though for Unityv2017 enterprise license? Nor a Unreal license for commercial subscription use for that matter.

Unity probably has a wider machine spec spread can run on lesser PC's and multi platform support, though i dont think we will see WWII Online Android anytime soon.

Unity and CRS's Unity3D are entirely different, they just share a name. 

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21 hours ago, calyx6 said:

 

At that time the Rats came up with subscription figures which would cover their costs.

They did not see the need to then have a million different layers of Builder account and all these other, quite frankly, "bit dodgy looking" ways of obtaining vast sums extra from the playerbase. 

 

So now that software overall is much much cheaper than it was back then, CRS consists of a tiny group of people to payroll, server hardware is cheap as chips.... The price of a sub goes...up? Despite all the Builder accounts? That makes no sense.

If CRS would disclose just how many active subs there are, I expect we could have some fun times with math. But they seem more than willing to not disclose this figure.

Where did the money all the Builders raised even go? I understand a new programmer would have taken a share, but what about the rest which was supposed to be spent on hardware and software which is still evidently missing from the game?

Where does the $$ go?  

  • Licences on all the development software (everything from modeling to code management to forums)
  • Hardware upgrades (thanks also to those who contributed to the fundraisers which also went to hardware and software)
  • Expanded Bandwidth pipeline (and payments to keep the aforementioned going)
  • Server Hosting space (and payments to the colo facility so they don't toss our servers into the street)
  • A few other places as well I'd imagine 

Also back in the day, broadband wasn't generally available, so when purchasing the game (while memory is fuzzy i seem to recall games being priced in the  $40-$60 range) it included 1 month of free play.  After that a sub was required to access the game.  These days the 'purchase the game before you play' is gone (and with it the income that the sale generated for the producers of the game) so comparing pricing now to then isn't necessarily the best thing. 

 

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11 hours ago, calyx6 said:

Unity and CRS's Unity3D are entirely different, they just share a name. 

hmm Strat 1st wrote it up to sound like we had licensed the engine and rewrote it.
Then again these are the same idiots who decided the early beta was ready for release...

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I ate a Hot Pocket once, and it cost more than $.50.

 

Also, it gave me farts that smelled like sour diarrhea for like 6 hours.

Not one fart was trusted that night.

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27 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

hmm Strat 1st wrote it up to sound like we had licensed the engine and rewrote it.
Then again these are the same idiots who decided the early beta was ready for release...

this is the most recent thing I can find on it. https://www.wwiionline.com/index.php/component/content/article/3012-playnet-announces-unity-3d-upgrade

though it may just be a case of same-name for similar product (which would be odd). 

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2 hours ago, B2K said:

this is the most recent thing I can find on it. https://www.wwiionline.com/index.php/component/content/article/3012-playnet-announces-unity-3d-upgrade

though it may just be a case of same-name for similar product (which would be odd). 

Well, i looked into the history of Unity3d as sold via Unity3d.com
That entity did not exist until 2008 and does not appear to have branched from any predecessor and has no names associated in common with CRS.
CRS does have a bad habit when picking names though.
Playnet has existed before in name as well, As a pay porn provider, online gambling service, online clickfest game host, in the 80's the commodore64 online gaming service, and android app developer, and Italian Web hosting company, Lithuanian game host, And THIS in 1997 when our game is getting started among other things.

The porn host makes the name a win i guess? LOL 
Dig the state of the art graphics

c9be4927d65941b9c142d76587f4373a.jpg

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On 8/10/2017 at 0:52 PM, merlin51 said:

You realize in Florida, summer lasts from february until december, in between we have spring.

In Florida you have 'Summer'...and 'Super Summer'.

Edited by forrest

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What the hell is going on at CRS?

Less to no Friday reports, patch suppose to be last weekend didn't happen and no info on it...

 

 

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Regarding unreal engine, IIRC they changed their EULA regarding royalties not long ago (that or i'm mistaking UE with another engine). Anyway: "UE4 is free to use, with a 5% royalty on gross product revenue after the first $3,000 per game per calendar quarter from commercial products"

Snippets from the current EULA:

Quote

You agree to pay Epic a royalty equal to 5% of all worldwide gross revenue actually attributable to each Product, regardless of whether that revenue is received by you or any other person or legal entity, as follows:

b. Gross revenue resulting from any and all in-app purchases, downloadable content, microtransactions, subscriptions, sale, transfer, or exchange of content created by end users for use with a Product, or redemption of virtual currency, either within a Product or made externally but which directly affect the operation of the Product;

c. Gross revenue from any Kickstarter or other crowdfunding campaign which is directly associated with Product access or in-Product benefit (e.g., in a multi-tiered campaign, if an amount is established in an early tier solely for Product access, your royalty obligation will apply to that amount for each backer with the same access, but not on additional amounts in higher tiers based on ancillary benefits);

d. Your revenue from in-app advertising and affiliate programs;

 

However, no royalty is owed on the following forms of revenue:

1. The first $3,000.00 in gross revenue for each Product per calendar quarter;

2. The first $5,000,000.00 in gross revenue for each Product from the Oculus Store;

3. Consulting fees or work-for-hire fees which are non-recoupable for services performed using the Licensed Technology (e.g., an architect-created walkthrough simulation or a contractor-developed in-house training simulator);

8. Revenue from donations for a Product which are not tied to Product access or in-Product benefits;

 

 

Source & More: https://www.unrealengine.com/eula

Edited by gretnine

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16 hours ago, pbveteran said:

What the hell is going on at CRS?

Less to no Friday reports, patch suppose to be last weekend didn't happen and no info on it...

 

 

All literate Rats have been smothered in gravy and locked into the fixit closet, which is guarded by rabid wolverines. The very same rabid wolverines that were used in 2001
(who have not been fed since they ate that intern in 2001) 

The forum has not been installed in the fixit closet, nor will it.

And the wolverines will not be returned to their cages until the work is sufficiently complete.

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