redoak84

Bombs... once again

22 posts in this topic

I've kind of had it with the bombs in this game.  I'm tired of dropping 250 kg bombs within feet of a Sherman or M10 with no effect... especially the M10 which was not a heavily armored vehicle. Needing a direct hit with a bomb is just plain stupid, and defeats the purpose of a bomb. This has literally be the dumbest part of this game, and for the last year all I've seen is, "there is an on going audit". Well, are you going to address the issue or not? I'm a paying customer and I want to know... stop with the lack of transparency. Are you going take into account the concussive effects of bombs on tanks?  To perfectly honest with you, I kind of want to warn the steam forum about this FLAW because it really takes away from the game.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other day I read an article by Doc explaining the ridiculous realism the DEVs took into account regarding the 20 mm cannons... yet, bombs have no concussive effects... makes absolutely no sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** The other day I read an article by Doc explaining the ridiculous realism the DEVs took into account regarding the 20 mm cannons

If that is true, then something is wrong with the axis Flak 30, somewhere the ammo/weapon got borked.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, redoak84 said:

Well, are you going to address the issue or not? I'm a paying customer and I want to know

If you got look at scottsman's posts on his HE work, you'd already have your answer.
He even gave pics.

4 minutes ago, delems said:

If that is true, then something is wrong with the axis Flak 30, somewhere the ammo/weapon got borked.

It's HE is borked, along with all other HE including the 250kg bombs.
20mm = small thin walled HE rounds, since they have the least to work with of all, HE underperforming hurts them more so than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is an ongoing audit - look for any of the posts by Scotsman and/or Hatch on the issue.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless they allow bombs to crack the currently-immune medium and heavy vehicles easier the HE audit is actually going to be a nerf to bombers. Just adding more frag will make it more punishing to drop too low, the AA guns will be stronger, and none of the bombs have any issues killing soft targets over an area.

 

Right now the 100kg bombs are actually better for tankbusting because they have a smaller blast radius than the 250kgs, while both bombs still require direct hits for many tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, redoak84 said:

I've kind of had it with the bombs in this game.  I'm tired of dropping 250 kg bombs within feet of a Sherman or M10 with no effect... especially the M10 which was not a heavily armored vehicle. Needing a direct hit with a bomb is just plain stupid, and defeats the purpose of a bomb. This has literally be the dumbest part of this game, and for the last year all I've seen is, "there is an on going audit". Well, are you going to address the issue or not? I'm a paying customer and I want to know... stop with the lack of transparency. Are you going take into account the concussive effects of bombs on tanks?  To perfectly honest with you, I kind of want to warn the steam forum about this FLAW because it really takes away from the game.

Welcome to axis !

its known for years and nothing done so far. lets see how the HE audit will end. but i doubt there will be much change towards allied tank damage with axis 250kg bombs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is we need town supply(aka airfield supply) before increasing bomb lethality otherwise the suiciding planes will decimate any armor attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The introduction of the audit results should, IMO, be synchronized with introduction of code that holds bomb damage, but not the explosion visuals, in a buffer for 750 milliseconds or so. If the plane dies (i.e. is suicided) within that time buffer, the bomb damage is cancelled.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** otherwise the suiciding planes 

Cut the amount of air in half, make each flight matter.

Ridiculous amount of aircraft in game anyways currently, solves 2 problems at once.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, delems said:

*** otherwise the suiciding planes 

Cut the amount of air in half, make each flight matter.

Ridiculous amount of aircraft in game anyways currently, solves 2 problems at once.

 

Indeed, I personally would rather have a smaller aircraft supply with effective bombs, then the opposite.  Right now the air force is over rated, because their CAS role is very restricted. 

 

The other thing to consider is that very soon there will be mobile aa batteries also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jwilly said:

The introduction of the audit results should, IMO, be synchronized with introduction of code that holds bomb damage, but not the explosion visuals, in a buffer for 750 milliseconds or so. If the plane dies (i.e. is suicided) within that time buffer, the bomb damage is cancelled.  

With current required low drop altitude, you could also shoot me in 750ms, which would cancel my legit bombs.
Thinking that would cause more grief than help? Thinking there would be a lot of angry players when their bombs are cancelled after successful drop
because the pilot took a bofors to the face?

STOing bombs seems to be the best band for the buck, get the pilots up at their proper altitudes where they would rather be anyways i am sure
and at the same time they wont be subjected to any infantry rendering induced stutter by making them render 100 infantry at 4km.

Also, due to its nature, the Stuka is always at risk of being wacked during a drop since it does not level bomb by nature.
The above idea would cancel out what may otherwise be it's successful drop, simply because i blew its wing off as it was pulling out.

Perhaps i am wrong, but i foresee some legitimately angry people as a result?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the reason for the 750 milliseconds...to carefully tailor the mechanism so it only applies for bombers that are powered into the target with the bomb release a few hundred milliseconds before impact.

Maybe some testing would show that 250 milliseconds would be enough. I think a 750 ms time window would exclude the intending-to-pull-out-but-killed-on-the-way-down instances you outline, but if not, then the time window is too long. It should be possible to identify a time window that will almost always distinguish bombers that suicide into targets, from those that are on a different path from the bomb and are killed almost simultaneously with the bomb impact.

An alternate approach would be to define a minimum free drop time before impact, or the bomb fuze doesn't actuate and the bomb duds. There is documentation for that as a realistic approach, but I think it'd be more gameplay-disruptive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jwilly said:

An alternate approach would be to define a minimum free drop time before impact, or the bomb fuze doesn't actuate and the bomb duds. There is documentation for that as a realistic approach, but I think it'd be more gameplay-disruptive.

That would probably be better, providing bombs were STO, then you could code a proper arming time for a given bomb.
Then a guy cant [censored], because it's his fault, he dropped from the wrong alt. (Just make sure to Document it well in the patch notes)
Most people can accept that i think.


The stuka though are its bombs set up with a delayed arming detonator? or do they arm when the carriage swings out?
I know they would drop from like around 500m at 80 degrees in real life, at 575kmh that doesn't leave much time if you get hit, or simply screw your pull out.
And its all full manual in game, no auto dive device, so players would have a lot more variance than our real life counterparts would ever have had.

I know you are just looking for grief prevention ideas, but considering you can kind of guarantee a kill now by lawn darting and jettisoning into the target
and no one seems terribly inclined to want to do it, mostly i guess because you dont get much out of it, no rtb, crappy points, another death in your KD and total loss of the unit, you think people would start adopting it?

There are way more ground units in the game than air, i'd think youd find yourself screwing yourself rather fast?
I know in warthunder its a big issue, but the planes are free and its done at nearly no risk, unlike here.
I like to think that the majority of our players are different, and our game is different enough that no one is too interested in it, maybe glasses too rosey?

edit
Forgot to ask
What disruption are you forseeing going the historical route using the various bombs real arming data?

Edited by merlin51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait a second.

What's the problem with suicidal planes? What exactly is unrealistic about that? The Japanese were obviously not the only ones to use it in WWII, and suicide bombers are encountered fairly routinely in modern war zones today. I'm not seeing what the problem is if someone wants to spawn a bomber and then decides to kamikaze a tank. How exactly is that unrealistic or unrepresentative of real warfare? I don't see how it amounts to griefing.

In my opinion, we should also allow inf to be able to cook a grenade and then run into EI (e.g. to clear a CP). I can see players complaining, but I absolutely see absolutely zero wrong with it, and it perfectly aligns (all too well) with what I personally know about the battlefield.

Edited by xanthus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, xanthus said:

Wait a second.

What's the problem with suicidal planes? What exactly is unrealistic about that? The Japanese were obviously not the only ones to use it in WWII, and suicide bombers are encountered fairly routinely in modern war zones today. I'm not seeing what the problem is if someone wants to spawn a bomber and then decides to kamikaze a tank. How exactly is that unrealistic or unrepresentative of real warfare? I don't see how it amounts to griefing.

In my opinion, we should also allow inf to be able to cook a grenade and then run into EI (e.g. to clear a CP). I can see players complaining, but I absolutely see absolutely zero wrong with it, and it perfectly aligns (all too well) with what I personally know about the battlefield.

The Japanese didn't get to respawn.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, OldZeke said:

The Japanese didn't get to respawn.

Well, they did until their BDE ran out of supply
;)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

Well, they did until their BDE ran out of supply
;)

Exactly!

If players can suicidally waste supply by spawning in a camped AB or depot, they should be able to make it count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is there even a concern about pilots potentially killing themselves in a drop?  They fly 5+ minutes to a target just to die for one kill? I have never tried to kill myself in the drop to get a head on kill, but I have killed myself countless times pulling up a little to late and the 250kg bomb f'ing up my plane.

 

Always fun when that happens and you just get a hit on the enemy tank. Dropping 250 kg bombs is more hazardous to your plane then the medium+ tank.

Edited by redoak84

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, redoak84 said:

Why is there even a concern about pilots potentially killing themselves in a drop?  They fly 5+ minutes to a target just to die for one kill? I have never tried to kill myself in the drop to get a head on kill, but I have killed myself countless times pulling up a little to late and the 250kg bomb f'ing up my plane.

 

Always fun when that happens and you just get a hit on the enemy tank. Dropping 250 kg bombs is more hazardous to your plane then the medium+ tank.

Never have any sympathy for pilots. 

Blot them from the sky and laugh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been mentioned High Explosives (all together) will be radically improved upon our software release of this stuff, which is currently sitting on a shelf pending deployment post-Steam. This is one of those content things we have in the pipeline ready to bring back more players and improve our current game play experience.

This new HE model (not just an audit) will change the way HE functions in the game and make it considerably more deadly across the board.

Prepare for the pain! :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.