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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

tsetse

Steam release (yikers)

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tsetse

 I raced back to this game in a hurry, to see how things were now, as I have always loved this game. Well, not really a lot has changed (not even players, wth people have played the same game over decade straight lol)

Anyways, I like to think of myself as realistic, others would say cynical. That being said, I really don't think this game will be accepted well with the Steam community. This game has a window of peak fun. It starts after you get a general idea of how things work, and lessens when you have a much broader understanding of how things work. 

 My kids are pretty young still, but when they buy, with their own money, a game on Steam, and it turns out to be a bad fit for them, or just sucks, I get a refund from Steam.  So your not really stuck with a game when bought on Steam... Not even obligated to give it a good try. I am 45 if I asked just about anyone my age if they have Steam, they have no idea what I am talking about. So it will be the young, played a lot of games already, very impatient, expecting to go in and kill mad people with uber weapons crowd we will get.

 If they don't quit within the first couple hours, after getting spawn camped by an ET, or run around for 45 minutes looking for a fight, thinking they could just run from town. Or a little later, when they got passed the confusion and spawn camps, and grab a tank, only to fire 10 rounds into an ET only to have it slowly turn it's barrel at you, fire one round, and burn entire crew.

 I really hope it goes great. I would love to see this game full of people again. In my cynical opinion though, sadly it is not realistic.

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dale

45 year olds don't know what Steam is?  45 year olds were in their mid 20s when Half Life came out.  They're about the average age of a gamer today.  

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Merlin51

I've had steam since the day valve started it ages ago, lots of us older than you people in it.

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tsetse
1 minute ago, dale said:

45 year olds don't know what Steam is?  45 year olds were in their mid 20s when Half Life came out.  They're about the average age of a gamer today.

 Didn't say they did not know what a video game was.

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dale

If Eve can get tens of thousands of people to stare at spreadsheets for hours on end.........................

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tsetse
2 minutes ago, dale said:

If Eve can get tens of thousands of people to stare at spreadsheets for hours on end.........................

 I have been playing EVE for many years. There is a place in the game for spreadsheets, but I never went there.

WWIIOL has been around for a very long time. I love this game, and have returned to play several times, and always know when I take a break, I will likely be back.

That being said, EVE is not Steam either.

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dale

Eve is on Steam.  77% upvoted.  Over 7000 votes.  

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calyx6

The problem comes when you start relying on Steam solely for the progression of your game and refuse outright to make important changes beforehand.

The other problem comes when you start thinking that releasing on Steam will suddenly open you to loads more people. People who buy games on Steam don't just rely on Steam for their gaming news. If people are interested in how WWIIOL currently is, they will already be playing it.

 

Various important fixes and updates have been postponed multiple times in favour of a quicker steam release. It doesn't seem to matter how many times the RATs are told this, they refuse to believe that it simply wont work. Despite being told so by people with far more experience than them.

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lipton
5 hours ago, calyx6 said:

The problem comes when you start relying on Steam solely for the progression of your game and refuse outright to make important changes beforehand.

The other problem comes when you start thinking that releasing on Steam will suddenly open you to loads more people. People who buy games on Steam don't just rely on Steam for their gaming news. If people are interested in how WWIIOL currently is, they will already be playing it.

 

Various important fixes and updates have been postponed multiple times in favour of a quicker steam release. It doesn't seem to matter how many times the RATs are told this, they refuse to believe that it simply wont work. Despite being told so by people with far more experience than them.

VERY well said. But then, I've only financed, started, owned & run a business for almost 20 years. So I'm probably not the guy to ask. I'm sure there are hundreds here with WAY more business experience ... AND life experience than my 55yrs.

I truly pray this works. But I am concerned they are about to blow their one an only shot by going off half-cocked.... so to speak.  But I get it. They need the revenue to keep the boat afloat.  It's a catch-22.

Edited by lipton
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SCKING

Best part is, you don’t pay for this game.. The game is free. You can download it and play offline all day long without any fee. There is also Free Play which also costs nothing. You pay a monthly fee for the subscription. And I believe the first 30 days will be free. If you only stay for 3 months, then you will pay 2 month subscription and then move on if you don’t stay with it. Nothing to refund. Even if the game only gets a 10% retention in “Early Access”, hopefully more changes will be complete by the time the full release happens (not sure when that is).. The teams are working very hard.

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gretnine
15 minutes ago, Scking said:

Best part is, you don’t pay for this game.. The game is free. You can download it and play offline all day long without any fee. There is also Free Play which also costs nothing. You pay a monthly fee for the subscription. And I believe the first 30 days will be free. If you only stay for 3 months, then you will pay 2 month subscription and then move on if you don’t stay with it. Nothing to refund. Even if the game only gets a 10% retention in “Early Access”, hopefully more changes will be complete by the time the full release happens (not sure when that is).. The teams are working very hard.

Who plays an online game like ww2ol offline? What are you going to do? Shoot trees? 

 

The thing about F2P is this: Even if you would try F2P, it's so limited that most of who will try the game won't bother paying to know what it feels like to play with equipment other than the standard rifle. Sure, that 30 days premium when Steam launch hits is nice for those who happen to find the game during it, but after that? Yeah..

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cosian

I think generalizing Steam players as twitch gamers is a quite a stretch.  There are a considerable number of people that enjoy games that are more strategic and demand a higher level of teamwork.  

Consider the recent alpha release of FoxHole.  Its got like 2700 reviews and I suspect has probably sold around 8000+ copies.  Its not a twitch WWII game, doesn't have great graphics to speak of, and the combat is a third person RTS style affair.  So there is a market for something beyond Battlefield, COD, Gears of War, etc....

That said, COD and Battlefield players looking for that type of a game on a bigger map may not have the fortitude to get past the initial layer of the onion.  And that's OK methinks.  Even if you could retain 10% of those that try it out, it would be a big win.  

I think its about expectations ... even if you could add 500 regular players it would be huge.  And I think that is realistic.

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Merlin51
2 minutes ago, gretnine said:

Who plays an online game like ww2ol offline?

Its has its uses offline, useful for certain aspects of training/practice
Flight, bombing, gunnery, terrain research, etc.

 

4 minutes ago, gretnine said:

Sure, that 30 days premium when Steam launch hits is nice for those who happen to find the game during it, but after that?

Will probably go back to the 2 weeks free trial, which is still good.

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gretnine
27 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Its has its uses offline, useful for certain aspects of training/practice
Flight, bombing, gunnery, terrain research, etc.

You said it right there. Training and practicing is pretty far from actually playing the game. 

Edited by gretnine

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Merlin51
3 minutes ago, gretnine said:

actually playing the game

Its not an offline game.
I don't know of a large amount of MMO's that let you do anything offline at all.

I have "played the game" offline which consisted of borrowing and modifying a few D&D rules, and making a few things up.
When you have no internet and no electric but a small generator and are surrounded by 6 foot deep water due to a visiting hurricane you have to do something, and they dont deliver hookers by boat.

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XOOM

World War II Online has survived 16 years of skepticism and continues onwards despite the changes in the landscape of online gaming. Launching on Steam is the equivalent of a megaphone making more players who are keen on MMOs, FPSs, Simulations and WWII games. The fact that we combined all of these things expands our overall reach.

Our user interface and getting players into the action to see how compelling WWII Online really can be, is our most significant challenge in terms of retention. Our existing community supporting these users, answering questions and getting them into Squads and on Discord is equally critical.

Our game is very personal and niche. It is not appealing to the masses because it is not easy. But there is a mass of people who will enjoy our game, and most importantly, hundreds of thousands of new users will learn about WWII Online for the very first time.

If our veterans are returning with an expectation that somehow everything has changed, I think you are falsely setting your own expectation. And I think that is a contradictory type mindset when we consider that we intentionally try to maintain that same WWII Online "feel." Improvements can, have, and should continue to be made, but at its core the game remaining what it is, should be considered a key to our success.

Speculation can be dangerous and I would advise against making negative predictions and rather focus on how to make positive solutions. That will be the most productive and produce the best case outcomes. 

The new Cornered Rat Software is doing what it can to improve the game. If you want WWII Online to go to the next level, get behind us, push the game forward and rally up. Create encouraging content and mindsets and everything else will follow suit. The opposite if the contrary.

Literally, hundreds of thousands of new players are not only learning, but landing on our Steam Store Page. Let that sink in a bit. Imagine what happens when there is significantly more players online and how that will improve everything.

Steam users should be respected, and not considered second class. We should welcome them with open arms and accept, that there will probably be a couple of bad apples that come through, do not let that jade your point of view. This is our most critical moment in years, and we are on the heels of our release. We need to go into this united and work towards the best outcome for all of us.

Tomorrow's Friday update will be revealing what efforts we're making to further help their success (Steam users) and retention.

You'll have to forgive me if I am coming off as down playing any concerns you all might have. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard something about "you need to take care of this before Steam, OR ELSE!"... I would be able to fund a couple of full time programmers and then some. I am exhausted from answering all of those things, and I am exhausted from the negative vibes about this. I get it, I am not shutting my ears off, but I can choose to focus on these things or consider our future and put my best foot forward with our team to do just that.

We need you guys to do the same, please.

S! 

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Capco
1 hour ago, XOOM said:

I am exhausted from answering all of those things, and I am exhausted from the negative vibes about this. I get it, I am not shutting my ears off, but I can choose to focus on these things or consider our future and put my best foot forward with our team to do just that.

We need you guys to do the same, please.

S! 

Even at this point of exhaustion you're still a lot more tactful than Doc.  Keep up the good work.

 

Again, thank you for being an active part in these discussions and addressing our concerns as best you can.  Even when I disagree with a decision or direction, your willingness to at least listen to others gives me 100% faith in the eventual outcomes.  

 

S!

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calyx6
1 hour ago, XOOM said:

"and continues onwards"

"Our user interface and getting players into the action to see how compelling WWII Online really can be, is our most significant challenge"

"Our game is very personal and niche"

"Improvements can, have, and should continue to be made"

"hundreds of thousands of new players are not only learning, but landing on our Steam Store Page"

"If I had a dollar for every time I've heard something about "you need to take care of this before Steam, OR ELSE!"... I would be able to fund a couple of full time programmers and then some"

Im sorry but all of that was just marketing guff. The game is not continuing forwards and hasn't done for a very long time.

The user interface is your most significant challenge? Im doubting your abilities in your role even more.

The game is not personal or niche, it is part of one of the largest genres of game available.

Please provide evidence for your "hundreds of thousands" of interested players.

If you had a dollar? You get far more than that from the people who are repeatedly telling you this. Maybe you should listen?

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Merlin51
19 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Steam users should be respected

For whatever it is worth, I am a steam user, so are guys like Satmax and Plastic of 31st WC fame, and a lot of others.
I've been a steam user since it's inception, i've been part of this game since before it's release, since the guys said "Hey we are leaving warbirds, we are going to do a new fully combined arms game".

So when people say "steam users are like this!!!!" look beside you at the guy with a B1 patch, he/she might be a steam user, may have even played airwarrior on concentric for $1.35 an hour.

31 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Literally, hundreds of thousands of new players

Us old guys say...

 

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Merlin51
31 minutes ago, calyx6 said:

Im sorry

lf47c.jpg

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calyx6
32 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

lf47c.jpg

Not a troll, just someone with experience ;)

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sorella
10 hours ago, calyx6 said:

Despite being told so by people with far more experience than them.

You wear an old red fez mate? Or goggles, maybe?

Image result for kelly's heroes oddball meme

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calyx6
7 minutes ago, sorella said:

You wear an old red fez mate? Or goggles, maybe?

Image result for kelly's heroes oddball meme

You really think im alone in thinking these things? Have you not read this forum before?

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XOOM
1 hour ago, calyx6 said:

Im sorry but all of that was just marketing guff. The game is not continuing forwards and hasn't done for a very long time.

The user interface is your most significant challenge? Im doubting your abilities in your role even more.

The game is not personal or niche, it is part of one of the largest genres of game available.

Please provide evidence for your "hundreds of thousands" of interested players.

If you had a dollar? You get far more than that from the people who are repeatedly telling you this. Maybe you should listen?

I appreciate that you are asking questions, that is a very healthy thing to do as opposed to making unfound assumptions without first learning facts or perspectives.

  1. Marketing Guff...: You can call it that, I am a fan of our game and our player base. My commentary is highly scrutinized by players because I am a Rat, and now the President of CRS. So of course I am hopeful in the best success, and my words of optimism come at the heels of our Steam release after a hard fought battle. Sure, I want a positive outcome. You can't claim to want the same, and then come out on the offensive attacking us or holding the past above this new team's head.
  2. The game is not continuing forwards...: You are fully willing and capable to make those accusations. We have not moved forward as much as we would like, but we did clamp the bleeding and take this game from the brink of doom. We are now rebuilding and have evidence of much rebuilding, whether it be our infrastructure, client, host, personnel, knowledge of the code base and architecture, new content generated and so much more. Ask your fellow active community members how they feel, and what they see about this. 
  3. The UI is your most significant challenge?...: I believe this whole heartedly. Players being able to easily understand software and directing them to their best gaming experience is very important. Our UI is challenging and un-necessarily complicated. It is our goal to help simplify that further so users can get into action faster and better understand all or reduce some of the total hoops they have to navigate.
  4. The game is not personal or niche...: It is part of of several large genres, however it is a one of a kind product. There's a reason we have lasted 16 years concurrently. Despite heavy challenges and skepticism as being demonstrated here.
  5. Provide evidence of interested players...: To date we've had about 3 million impressions, and a little over 350,000 users have landed on our Steam store page to learn about WWII Online. That is the extent of which I can share information for you. That is as of about May 18th 2017 when we released our Steam store page into a coming soon status.
  6. Maybe we should listen to our players...: We are. We have been. We will continue to do so. I am responding to you to show you some common courtesy and to address your concerns, although you have sniped my organization, our community, our game and me personally.
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calyx6
9 minutes ago, XOOM said:

I am responding to you to show you some common courtesy and to address your concerns, although you have sniped my organization, our community, our game and me personally.

You seem to think I am the only one who is criticizing you, when actually half of all of the forum posts are saying exactly the same thing as I.

 

Trust me, I know what it is like to be lumbered with the corpse of someone else's game, but that has nothing to do with the fact that almost all suggestions for improvement on this forum alone have been extensively ignored. Especially when many of these suggestions come from either veteran players, or people with extensive online gaming/coding experience.

Obviously I am not going to make any impressions, good nor bad, on any paying member of the community. Since a vast majority of them are veterans who are able to play the game with rose-tinted spectacles.

I am simply trying to point out that this game probably uses less of it's revenue on development than any other subscription-based game currently out there.

I will say once more, Steam users will not be impressed with the subscription charge, nor will they be impressed with the lack of development they get for their subscription. Else they would have already been here, a long time ago.

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