odonovan1

Luftwaffe Advantage

27 posts in this topic

 

I was thinking about the new players, coming in with Steam memberships, who start flying for the Axis.  They're entering as greenies, with access to only basic equipment.  They start in 109s.  However, there are FIVE different marks of the 109 in use.  The Allied pilots have no way to know which 109s are which.  On the Allied side, however, the planes new pilots start with are easily recognized in the air, as they're either Hawks or Hurries.  It's not hard for Axis pilots to smell fresh meat and take advantage of the situation.  What if the 109s were marked by model as well as type of aircraft?  The same could be done for other planes, such as Spits and P-40s, which have more than one model ingame.  The issue isn't as pressing on the Allied side however, as those flying Spits and P-40s at least have leveled up to use them, so aren't total rookie pilots.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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Learn your 09's Irish good God man how long have you flown!? lol

LESSON 1 Yellow nose/white prop hub = e1...also if the wheels are down is a good indicator :P

Yellow Nose/yellow prop= e4,  white cone/red under = F2, white/black cone = F4, spiral = G6

 

comes with experience broheem :P

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They're pretty easy to discern after you've seen them for a while.

 

Maybe adding E1, E4, F2, F4 or G6 after "Bf109" would help, but aren't there more pressing matters atm?

 

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On 9/15/2017 at 2:29 AM, AirSlayr88 said:

Learn your 09's Irish good God man how long have you flown!? lol

 

When all you can see is a red circle, the 109s' color schemes aren't visible.  When the red circle appears for the Axis pilots, they can instantly see Hawk or Hurricane.  That's when decisions are made about who to engage.  Hence the advantage.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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5 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Allies have several hurricanes and 3 hawks
dont those all just say hurri or hawk

 

When you have a higher tier campaign such as this one, unless I miss my guess, most vets will likely be flying Spits (British) or 38s (French) if they're heading into a furball.  It's still a pretty big clue to the Axis pilots.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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My view, delete the red circle and the name off the Unit in the game. Give us only a grey circle without a name or better only a circle for friendly plans.

This circle system is really unrealistic, in real a ww2 pilot must fly really near to his eneamy to see what typ of fighter he is.

Know in BGE i can see from around 2k what typ he is. For a Simulationgame not really fine, its look like more arcade gameplay stly know.

Pls no more arcade stuff ingame, make the game better more real.

3 people like this

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8 hours ago, sajuk said:

My view, delete the red circle and the name off the Unit in the game. Give us only a grey circle without a name or better only a circle for friendly plans.

This circle system is really unrealistic, in real a ww2 pilot must fly really near to his eneamy to see what typ of fighter he is.

Know in BGE i can see from around 2k what typ he is. For a Simulationgame not really fine, its look like more arcade gameplay stly know.

Pls no more arcade stuff ingame, make the game better more real.

The reason all large combat flightsims use an indicator on planes is that the PC monitor can not replicate the ability of the human eye
To both see and reasonably identify enemy aircraft, or the fact that there is any aircraft there at all for that matter.

This is a tiger at 2km THROUGH3X  MAGNIFIED OPTICS.
Not sure what kind of setup you have, but if you expect other players to be able to see that in unmagnified view, i think they will disagree strongly.
Press I to turn your circles off

bVkwpMD.png

This is said tiger  at 5X or 8X magnification?
you got a Fresnel lens on your monitor?
4gCB79L.png

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I've found another MASSIVE advantage Luftwaffe pilots have.  Actually, I knew of it for quite some time but have documented it with multiple planes in offline practice mode.

Having flown some in other flight sims, I've noticed a disturbing attribute most planes have here.  It's almost impossible to do a knife-edge (wings perpendicular to the ground) turn.  In RL, knife edge passes and turns are staples of air shows and the knife edge turn is still the quickest way to bring a plane around, into a turning fight.

 

14282013636_accfce16cd_b.jpg

Knife-edgeCircleQuadSnaps_small_edited.j

 

Normally, a pilot would (aileron) roll left or right 90 degrees from level flight, then (for the turn) yank the stick all the way back.  Opposite rudder is used to keep the plane's nose up.  There is a tendency for the plane to want to roll out of the turn with the rudder input, so a bit of opposite aileron is used to balance it out.  It's a really simple maneuver, but one most planes are incapable of, here ingame.  They either roll out of the turn or (with even the slightest rudder input to balance it) nose over toward the ground then begin to flop back and forth when opposite control input is used to try to bring the plane back under control.

 

In WWIIOL, there is only one plane which can do it with any reliability, the 109.  Every single variant of the 109 can easily do multiple knife edge circles over an airfield without ever leaving the field's boundaries.  Some of the Spits can do "pretty well," but you have to let the nose dip below the horizon and bring it back up further around the circle.  The P-38s are good for about one full circle before they go wonky.  Most other Allied fighters as well as the FW 190 can't do knife edge turns for shizzit.

 

I noticed the one plane which had the aerodynamics audit, a while back, is the one plane which can easily perform this simple maneuver.  Can we get this looked into?  As an Allied pilot, it's annoying to not be able to roll and yank the stick back, which is a standard of air combat, especially when I know the guy on my six, in the 109, can do it with no problem if I get on HIS tail.

 

EDIT:  Before anyone asks, I have the sensitivity turned WAY down on my rudder, to keep from using too much input, so that's not an issue.  In other sims, and in the 109 here, I can slide in and out of knife edge turns with no effort at all, so it's not that I don't know how to do it.  Plus, these were the first times I've ever flown the 109 here, so it's not a question of familiarity.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

Edited by odonovan1

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It's a known and thoroughly beaten issue with the FM that requires a massive overhaul for which there are no resources. It used to work as it should - you could do boat turns and all - but following an audit to get rid of floptastic 109 issues (and other anomalies), rudder was nerfed.

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Thanks for the input.  I hope this will become a priority, at some point.

 

I know there are a lot of flight simmers out there who would LOVE to get into a game where they can strafe, bomb, and dogfight, all against live targets on a map this size.  Getting them into WWIIOL would be huge.  The flight model would be key to this.  If they get ingame and can't fly as they can in any number of other sims, they won't stay.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

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My guess is that the hardcore flight simmers out there have already tried WWIIOL and moved on to greener pastures, where ever they may be these days. What we're getting now is a big influx of keyboard "pilots" with "experience" from WarThunder. If 5% of them stick around and learn to fly for realsies that'd be great. So far most I've seen are nothing but fodder.

I love this game. Despite its flaws it's still the best show around IMO.

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13 hours ago, odonovan1 said:

*sound of crickets*

How is your stick set up?
I can not answer for all planes as i only fly certain ones
H75 H81 Blen, sometimes Bell, ive flown the 109 just to look at it after hatch reworked it, im no good at using it but can fly on my side
I can knife edge them, even though the rest of my skill sucks.
Thats normally how i scan the ground.

Have you modified your rudder axis or anything in calibration? if so, youd need to remove that calib file
If you reduced the throw to combat old rudder flopping, you will have trouble knifing due to reduced rudder deflection.

 

11 hours ago, bmbm said:

but following an audit to get rid of floptastic 109 issues (and other anomalies), rudder was nerfed.

but hatch removed the rudder nerf
control surface speed has been reduced or something like that, and he mentioned something about the CG was changed to try to make it fly stable.
bad fixes but they were done by someone who was not a flight model programmer.
But he removed that nonsense i believe?

Are you not able to hold the plane on its side without ground diving?
Are you using any previously created rudder fix calib files?

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On 9/15/2017 at 1:29 AM, AirSlayr88 said:

...also if the wheels are down is a good indicator :P...

Hahaha so true.

On 9/16/2017 at 2:06 AM, odonovan1 said:

 

 

When you have a higher tier campaign such as this one, unless I miss my guess, most vets will likely be flying Spits (British) or 38s (French) if they're heading into a furball.  It's still a pretty big clue to the Axis pilots.

 

I mean.. yes and no, really. I love flying the hawks, the 81 and the 87. I do fly the Spit9 as much I can, but there are allied pilots that fly almost exclusively the lower level spits for personal reasons. I think it's relatively easy enough to spot greentags on both sides you can look at the way they fly, what altitude you found them at, and of course the color scheme. Either way, they all get treated the same way by me. That is they'll eventually end up on my 6...

 

 

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You shouldn't have the advantage to know the model of aircraft. Just what type. And the allied Noob rides are WAY more deadly than the 109e1.

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LOL Odonovan is complaining that the Allied planes can't do a knife edge turn as well as an Axis plane? Just yank and bank... it's the Allied way.

 

/thread

 

 

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On 9/16/2017 at 5:54 AM, sajuk said:

My view, delete the red circle and the name off the Unit in the game. Give us only a grey circle without a name or better only a circle for friendly plans.

This circle system is really unrealistic, in real a ww2 pilot must fly really near to his eneamy to see what typ of fighter he is.

Know in BGE i can see from around 2k what typ he is. For a Simulationgame not really fine, its look like more arcade gameplay stly know.

Pls no more arcade stuff ingame, make the game better more real.

if there were no visual assistance, finding anything in the air would be excessively frustrating for a PVP game.

There could be a more progressive visual table,

grey circle/

red circle/

plane type/

plane callsign/#.

pilot phone number

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On 9/22/2017 at 6:18 PM, haupt said:

And the allied Noob rides are WAY more deadly than the 109e1.

Not sure i would lay that on quite evenly
the H75 isnt exactly what anyone thinks of when one says deadly.

I love it, its fun to fly, but its slow and shoots BB's
Bout the only way a 109 should really get taken by it is
Get bounced - anyone can get bounced by anything
Be silly enough to engage it in a sub stall speed turning fight at 100m or less - in which case you need slapped and sent back to infantry

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On 9/14/2017 at 2:23 PM, odonovan1 said:

 

I was thinking about the new players, coming in with Steam memberships, who start flying for the Axis.  They're entering as greenies, with access to only basic equipment.  They start in 109s.  However, there are FIVE different marks of the 109 in use.  The Allied pilots have no way to know which 109s are which.  On the Allied side, however, the planes new pilots start with are easily recognized in the air, as they're either Hawks or Hurries.  It's not hard for Axis pilots to smell fresh meat and take advantage of the situation.  What if the 109s were marked by model as well as type of aircraft?  The same could be done for other planes, such as Spits and P-40s, which have more than one model ingame.  The issue isn't as pressing on the Allied side however, as those flying Spits and P-40s at least have leveled up to use them, so aren't total rookie pilots.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

Hmmm...Just like RL.

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When I started playing the game, all I could fly as Axis was the 110. The E1 is a much better noob plane than the 110 in terms of being easier to fly.  The E1 is a the best of the noob planes in performance, however not sure how you add a better allied ride for the allied noobs. We are pretty limited to the hurri mk1 and H75, though I think the French had 30 or 40 VG-33 fighters off the production line before the fall of france. That would be a very interesting plane but hardly a noob ride - its more like a mix between the e4 and hawk. The MS.404 or Bloch mb.. not sure how they would fit, I think the Ms.404 was a POS though.

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On ‎16‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 10:54 AM, sajuk said:

My view, delete the red circle and the name off the Unit in the game. Give us only a grey circle without a name or better only a circle for friendly plans.

This circle system is really unrealistic, in real a ww2 pilot must fly really near to his eneamy to see what typ of fighter he is.

Know in BGE i can see from around 2k what typ he is. For a Simulationgame not really fine, its look like more arcade gameplay stly know.

Pls no more arcade stuff ingame, make the game better more real.

I fully agree with this. I've cordially loathed the red-circles since day one. The great majority of kills in WWII were of pilots who never knew the enemy were there, much less saw them. Personally I find the red-circles actually make tracking an EA harder, not easier, because I tend to simply recognise there's an EA "in the circle/arc", but the circle over-powers my ability to resolve the EA's aspect relative to me. If the circle wasn't there, once I'd seen the bugger, I'd be better able to manoeuvre from being better able to resolve how he was manoeuvring. Then again, I'm over 50 now, and my eyesight isn't what it once was.

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