XOOM

OP FALL GELB: After Action Report (ALL)

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Hey everyone, I would love your feedback to hear how OPERATION FALL GELB went for you individually, your group during the event and your side, etc.

By the way, we hit the highest population we have seen since 2011 today for our event, and even managed to get up to 6 AO's per side, using the new underpopulated sides logic, which again is much harder to obtain than the previous structure we had (which means it would've been much higher without those changes).

Overall the game balanced itself pretty well, I was watching those numbers closely and if you didn't experience spawn delay,  that is why.

Okay gimme your thoughts!

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I noticed that there was no spawn delay during the event- which was sweeeeeet. I'm also very happy that we set some record numbers today. Saw a lot of new players, and I think we really showed them a good time. Noticed a lot of new guys asking questions, and most vets shot them back answers real quick. That's the kind of great support that will help the newer players grasp the curve of the game in the long run. The support system inside the game, as well as out by experienced players was great.

Both sides had great numbers for the event (according to the sign ups) although I think it could have been a little better organized at the start. However, this kind of coordination isn't easy- and overall I think after the first 10-20 mins things came together pretty quickly. Getting people in the right discord channels was a bit of a hassle, but again that was sorted out after the first 20-30 mins.

Attacks today were a swell blast from the past. Saw so many tags in town - a sea of blue and green. It was an incredible sight to see, and something I don't think most of have seen in a long time. I hope its a reoccurring experience! Although I did notice lots of players experiencing lag and rubber-banding - an issue that I hope will be addressed, considering the game is expecting  more and more players with the release on steam.

My overall experience was great, and personally I had an awesome time. I really hope events like this are a dime a dozen soon. More events keep people engaged -new and old.

Overall, job well done by everyone involved. Let's do it again.

S! 

  

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Ok, over all was a lot of fun.

Was a bit disconcerting when our squad was out attacking - knowing most likely every CP at our DOs was empty :(

We were 2nd squad KG Spartan, assigned Brux; we took W side more to the SW.  Trying to hold Temse, Aalst and Waterloo CPs, then assault S AB from W side.

Main issue, was having just 1x 251c, that is a lot of area to cover for only 1 MS; we moved the MS around best we could - but with ea lurking that got harder and harder.

Also, MS couldn't really support all the directives at once.

I know 1st and 3rd squad were at Brux, not sure where other KG was, in Brux also?

Only way I'd improve it would be for more MS groups.  We needed a MS up by Temse and prolly one by Aalst that could move up to Waterloo area.

Instead of 1 platoon of 251 (3x 251) attacking Brux, each very large teams, I'd go with 2 platoons of 251s and have the teams smaller.  Seemed our 251 team had like 30-40 players, would have been better if we had 2x 251 each with 15-20.  This would give us more MS and better mobility.

Lack of effective ATG hurt us too, and we ran out of pak 36 as allies pushed us out of Aalst CP.  We brought an extra Sd Kfz 7 with pak 40, that helped - but wasn't enough in the end.

Was a great battle, we had Brux down to S AB left to cap, but couldn't quite close it, then allies surged; out of ATGs, and our 251 destroyed, we couldn't move and our MS was camped.

It would have taken forever to get another MS near there, if we could even make it with the ea out and about, but we were also down to rifles and out of ATGs.  So we aborted and went to Dun defense.

All in all though, great numbers and fun.

 

Edited by delems

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Cerfontaine was a mad house.

 

We were set up on one side of an open field and the Allies on the other.  Both sides had tank support, mortars, you name it. 

 

We set up bunkers, fox holes, etc and started, under smoke concealment to move across the open field, digging fox holes as we went.  Xoom seemed to think it was funny when I typed, "CHAAAARG!" into local chat, jumped up to run and got killed.  

 

The Allies too laid down smoke and did a mass infantry charge across the field.

 

Then I had to go to work.

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Enjoyed it. Panzer group Raider rolling out. Working with an inf group for some of it. Good few hours of organised, structured gameplay.

Great numbers in game. Ddn't see any lag or bug type issues either. 

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23 minutes ago, rotsechs said:

Enjoyed it. Panzer group Raider rolling out. Working with an inf group for some of it. Good few hours of organised, structured gameplay.

Great numbers in game. Ddn't see any lag or bug type issues either. 

It was nice even though a few times our panzer group got to the town just as the bunker was capped lol. 

 

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I never had game crashes the last years but yesterday I had the game stop and crash sooner or later. Its either because of the new patch or because of the high load, I don't know. So I watched Xoom on twitch for a while. There were some awesome paradrops You did yesterday!

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5 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

It was nice even though a few times our panzer group got to the town just as the bunker was capped lol.

Boom and couvin... we set new standards for idiocy there.

 

fun everywhere, only battle i didn't like was Profondeville, too much walking and driving. by the time we arrived at CP we captured it was recaptured by defenders.

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it was very good. and hitting high pop numbers for both sides showed that its a different, faster, more fluid game at  the fps, squad/group and strategic 'map' level with those good numbers - belaying many of the mechanics or equipment issues people like to debate without those numbers. 

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Ok, hope this post won't be a cultural clash, being a Swede, and we "nag" about everything :)

 

I write to much so will try to brake it down into a list:

  • Start time was communicated incorrectly, GMT does not exist during summer for example. Did not affect all, but some did get it wrong.
  • Channels to be used during operation: No info at all. At my discord channel we all heard different channels to tune in. -"it is channel 3". -"no! channel 6" etc... confusion.
    • Solution: Don't solve it. This was immersion deluxe. As in war I had to tune several channels to get intel. :P
  • EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, that took part in my group (Brigade Knight, tank grp1) had the impression that Allied Gelb forces would meet Axis Gelb forces. That was not the setup. Our tank column were mostly driving around, trying to find a targets with some kind of resistance. But we never met any enemy with force. Instead we ended up attacking an Airfield AB, where
    • 1) We had no truck to re-supply (we called for it a couple of times, no showup)
    • 2) AB was never captured, not enough push by inf. (remember inf cap, tanks don't)
    • 3) While waiting for a new target at airfield Antwerpen, at least my squad could not just see how map was rolled in Bruxelles, Haybes etc... With over 20online (we haven't had those numbers for a long time) there was work to do. And no central info coming in, we just left operation after 1hour.
  • AAR for me: I fired one shot into a Tiger with a tank destroyer, max caliber at 300m. No kill. This in a server with 6 AO:s and massive battles going on. Everywhere else than where I was.
    • Again: Immersion deluxe. But maybe a bit to much immersion. Lucky for you, I do not play fast paced games.
  • Game showed itself at its best. Really. I have never seen a map where 3 big towns getting fully hammered, with both paras, and tank columns, making the action go so wide (due to destroyers, so that suddenly fights occurred randomly at rail bridge crossings etc. But I also know that only us veterans probably understand this. This is not visible for a normal player.
    • Solution: A community officer need to setup some kind of commentator booth, live at youtube, or just a realtime chat/blog etc, that can show for a player what is going on (with some delay, for example not saying: Axis/Allied is soon going to attack x..)
  • I think both sides reported the anxiety that "squads that are online now could just take any target on map where Gelb operation is not in progress, and hence just roll...". Good for the game, because it shows really cool aspects of game, where one side has a slight advantage of being organized for one target. Bad for the game: It totally messes up a campaign map. Hard fought advances could be wiped in hours.
  • Chain of command - Lets face it: We have not had this kind of operations in years. It needs a good chain of command all the way from top down. A group leader need to be able to answer questions from the group members what is going on, and why we are taking a target or not, and give intel on expected resistance. Is there a time factor? Is our taking of target important to other groups? etc...

 

And the summary of this operation is: Please re-make these kind of operations as often as possible!

On a last note it is obvious that lot of resources are needed to set this up. Maybe this forum just is not enough in the long run (if doing this more often). An automated system for administering all groups would be nice. Like when signing up, then the system gives player an automated answer: "You are now in armoured group 1, your grp channel is 3, and your battalion overwatch channel is 2. Please report in at X coordinate with a tank model Y at time xx:xx (ZULU time zone), logged in on discord on channel Z"

These operations are needed until all squads numbers and organisation gets stabilized. For example my squad had 25 online, but many still recruits, not responding, and we have [censored]load of work still to get the responsive ones organized, like "when are you online next time", does not exist yet. These new players are still to confused to even understand what we are suggesting when saying "big operation gelb on sunday". They think the game offers this every day, meaning they will not sign up, in hope they can only show up.

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So I hear... overall the Allies had a 1.35 KD, but it was a total Tiger campfest and Allies lost 15 towns. Is that true? Not sure how the 1.35 KD works with that.  That's an exaggeration, right?

Edited by lipton

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2 hours ago, wockawocka said:

<AAR>

Very good AAR wocka.

Unfortunately I wasnt able to get you better action.  I feel we had big gaps in chain of command as you say. After Antwerp fell through because Axis didnt show up and our infantry groups were unable to attack airfield properly the comms simply broke down.

Really need a team of HC/squad leaders together working as the OP leaders. Next to the CO's leading the actual groups.

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It would be nice to see this kind of operation once a month or so. Maybe with an automated system to help set it up. 

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The most awesome part for me was the Axis paradrops.. have not seen that many paras dropping down overhead since the day they where introduced. They where blinking in and out tripping the 128 limit - mind you we had 25 guys in that town.  Paras where made extremely powerful used like that. Want more of that.. but next time from the allies.

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The most glaring issue to me was a lack of experienced players who know how to run and plan and lead opps that big with dedicated elements in play and a large command structure, the current HC members lack exposure to this type of leadership so either its something we have to do more regularly so current hc learn or the players with the skills need to lead the ops if they are here or come back if they have left the game, it worked from a big battles point of view but that was the limit and it highlighted how far the player leadership has fallen away from the tactical battle level into the more strategic level.

On the plus side i had a blast leading a tank KG again brought back some great memory's and times, best action was blowing locking Ant fbs in co-op with a Inf KG working closely with us. BB has a short video some where of the last part of the fb suppress.

 

Edited by dm79

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20 minutes ago, dm79 said:

The most glaring issue to me was a lack of experienced players who know how to run and plan and lead opps that big with dedicated elements in play and a large command structure, the current HC members lack exposure to this type of leadership so either its something we have to do more regularly so current hc learn or the players with the skills need to lead the ops if they are here or come back if they have left the game, it worked from a big battles point of view but that was the limit and it highlighted how far the player leadership has fallen away from the tactical battle level into the more strategic level.

On the plus side i had a blast leading a tank KG again brought back some great memory's and times, best action was blowing locking Ant fbs in co-op with a Inf KG working closely with us. BB has a short video some where of the last part of the fb suppress.

 

You have to cut HC some slack on this one.  They have been logisticians for the better part of a decade.

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6 minutes ago, saronin said:

You have to cut HC some slack on this one.  They have been logisticians for the better part of a decade.

Yep that's point im making and slack given, its far from easy when you have done it before let alone when its a new experiance.

 

Imo next time it would be easier to organist into a correct style fire team/Kampfgroup which are a mixed unit of all elements, inf, tanks, atgs, support, air. Rather than the one unit of tanks one unit of support, one unit of air.

 

much simpler from a command tactical level that way as you can all work as a group and feel inclusive involved in a battle, from a strategic point of view its easier as you can pick a town and set a direction for each battle group/fireteam/KG and let the current hc do there thing they currently know well.

Edited by dm79

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I feel a major part is that we have 6 AO's but veterans for 2 AO. So HC/veterans get a huge burden. They have to do even more spawn guarding, logistics, brigade moving etc. Next to that during this OP they were expected to lead a group of players ánd maintain comms between groups ánd often do hc stuff.

Just to sketch a difference: in 2008 23rd would have 30+ guys on squadnight with at least 3 squad leader type guys and then other guys that were in HC.

Now AEF still only had 20 on max? I didnt really pay attention as i was busy more with my group: again something way more difficult than just your own squad with the guys you know. With also not the leaders being online like darkvex Ce etc.(also started early EU tz and us isnt online then)

Actually that might have played a huge role. The OP starts in EU tz... normally the axis powerhouse. Even if numbers are equal I wonder if allied still have the same amount of veterans available. Combine that with having the entire veteran allied PB attack antwerp and no coordinated groups assigned to defenses and you got a recipe for disaster imo.

For allied I'm strongly thinking it will be much better to use the squads as the basis to organize from and then dynamically assign infantry/armor/air/atg based objectives to them. Anyone new who wants to join in can simply join 1 of the squad channels based on their current assignment. It is how our multi-squad operations worked and that worked great. You also then automatically let them get to know 1 of the squads instead of a fictive group that is disbanded after the event.

"Okay next AO is andenne, Allfor can you do tanks this time? 7thast can you paradrop? AEF will tow atgs and set fms"

You then use the core of the squads and not disconnect all players from each other and try to meld them together in a group again.

Allied were always way more into playing multiple arms anyhow while Axis are more of dedicating people to 1 arm. Just compare allied squad nights to the axis (KGW) ones. A comparable difference between the two sides is in HC where allied for example never adopted the RO system.

 

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5 hours ago, stankyus said:

The most awesome part for me was the Axis paradrops.. have not seen that many paras dropping down overhead since the day they where introduced. They where blinking in and out tripping the 128 limit - mind you we had 25 guys in that town.  Paras where made extremely powerful used like that. Want more of that.. but next time from the allies.

:D sorry about that, but glad it was a cool spectacle. 

 

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Allies got rolled. Shame the sides weren't .... pop balanced for the event. Would have made it more enjoyable for all involved.  But I'm just a broken record. 

Edited by lipton

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I spent the day trying to predict where and when Xoom's paradrops would take place so I could massacre some meat wagons.  On 6 different occasions I managed to get Ju52s seconds after they dropped, but didn't prevent a single drop.  From 5:32 to about 5:38  of Xoom's video you can watch me just miss the opportunity to kill 3 drops on one town.  Was still a lot of fun.  Can't believe we have so many people playing again, I sure hope it lasts.

Edited by fuhror

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1 hour ago, lipton said:

Allies got rolled. Shame the sides weren't .... pop balanced for the event. Would have made it more enjoyable for all involved.  But I'm just a broken record. 

Xoom said they where balanced and at one point the Allies has lightly more.

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