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delems

First needs.

13 posts in this topic

Been thinking, what does each side need to complete its kit, so to speak?

This is not trying to balance anything or some tit for tat, just what is each side missing?

 

Here are my thoughts, and these should be done first in regards to development?

axis: flak 38, ju-88, pzjg I

french: light tank, (like IIC or viky), early tier SMG, late tier HT

brit: early tier SMG, universal carrier

usa: 60mm mortar, paras, truck, HT

italy: worry bout that later.......

all nations: a small INF gun that could spawn at FMBs, like the german 75mm INf gun.

 

Thoughts?

 

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France needs a french air force. We have one, ONE french plane in the game. The U.S. can just use the current FAF minus the Dewo.

"R35" IS the french light tank.

" VBCP Lorraine 38L " French Tier 0 APC. No need for lend lease. It is completely unarmed however.

If we want to give everyone an Automatic/Assault Rifle. The french have the Chauchat to fall back on. Horribly outdated and I don't even know if any were used by the french in ww2. But they existed. The british have a variety of ww1 projects and colonial creations if we want to stretch things. Might just be better to give them the BAR.

U.S. Need an equivalent to the Vickers. I don't think the U.S. ever used the vickers in real life. Closest equivalent is the M2A2 "Mae West". Never used in combat.

Allies need dive bombers. Breguet 690/Blackburn B-24 Skua/Douglas SBD Dauntless would work nicely.

Allied Medium Bombers Vickers Wellington/B25 Mitchell/Lioré et Olivier LeO 45 Perhaps?

That's all for now. I have things to do.

 

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2 minutes ago, muromachi said:

France needs a french air force. We have one, ONE french plane in the game. The U.S. can just use the current FAF minus the Dewo.

"R35" IS the french light tank.

" VBCP Lorraine 38L " French Tier 0 APC. No need for lend lease. It is completely unarmed however.

If we want to give everyone an Automatic/Assault Rifle. The french have the Chauchat to fall back on. Horribly outdated and I don't even know if any were used by the french in ww2. But they existed. The british have a variety of ww1 projects and colonial creations if we want to stretch things. Might just be better to give them the BAR.

U.S. Need an equivalent to the Vickers. I don't think the U.S. ever used the vickers in real life. Closest equivalent is the M2A2 "Mae West". Never used in combat.

Allies need dive bombers. Breguet 690/Blackburn B-24 Skua/Douglas SBD Dauntless would work nicely.

Allied Medium Bombers Vickers Wellington/B25 Mitchell/Lioré et Olivier LeO 45 Perhaps?

That's all for now. I have things to do.

 

I dont think we want to give everyone an assault rifle? in WWII that was kind of a german invention?
France has the FN29 which is a good gun, it replaced the Chauchat.
The Hotchkiss M1909 was used a bit, but i dont think it fits the bill?

 

The french bought the H75's and ordered other US build planes, that is why they have them.
There are some french planes that could get modeled later like the D-3801
But in 1940, they have so many outdated aircraft the exist in tiny amounts, that could never be competitive with an HE-111 with 4 dead engines and no landing gear, let alone anything else, there isnt a wide selection of choices for widely available aircraft.

They cant do much with tiger moths and helldivers, ya know?

They had a lot of orders in with the US for DB7's and H75's and such.

The US does not enter until a later tier, and by then the day of the vickers, and 232 and panhard and daimler etc are pretty much done.
The US did not field any tanks that light, closest would be the M2A4's but those only got used in asia and the pacific, mostly until the stuart production had caught up.
But the M2 is no vickers, it's a lot heavier.

The vickers day is with the PZI's and the french AMR's which aren't in game yet but im sure will come when they can.
One day T0 will be a very crazy place if you're french.

By the way, no offense, but im not dive bombing in a Breguet 690
That looks like suicide :) 
The Blackburn B-24 Skua i might consider, does it come with a carrier??????

Douglas SBD Dauntless would be cool, only downside is it wouldnt appear at least until US entry.
But the french free forces did use them too.

For tier 0 france, we'd have this, and im afraid it would die?
Curtiss_SBC-4_Helldiver_(15518045454).jp

 

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Vought Vindicator tier0 French dive bomber, or LN.401 < had hispano in the nose!

Edited by biggles4

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8 hours ago, merlin51 said:

I dont think we want to give everyone an assault rifle? in WWII that was kind of a german invention?
France has the FN29 which is a good gun, it replaced the Chauchat.
The Hotchkiss M1909 was used a bit, but i dont think it fits the bill?

 

The french bought the H75's and ordered other US build planes, that is why they have them.
There are some french planes that could get modeled later like the D-3801
But in 1940, they have so many outdated aircraft the exist in tiny amounts, that could never be competitive with an HE-111 with 4 dead engines and no landing gear, let alone anything else, there isnt a wide selection of choices for widely available aircraft.

They cant do much with tiger moths and helldivers, ya know?

They had a lot of orders in with the US for DB7's and H75's and such.

The US does not enter until a later tier, and by then the day of the vickers, and 232 and panhard and daimler etc are pretty much done.
The US did not field any tanks that light, closest would be the M2A4's but those only got used in asia and the pacific, mostly until the stuart production had caught up.
But the M2 is no vickers, it's a lot heavier.

The vickers day is with the PZI's and the french AMR's which aren't in game yet but im sure will come when they can.
One day T0 will be a very crazy place if you're french.

By the way, no offense, but im not dive bombing in a Breguet 690
That looks like suicide :) 
The Blackburn B-24 Skua i might consider, does it come with a carrier??????

Douglas SBD Dauntless would be cool, only downside is it wouldnt appear at least until US entry.
But the french free forces did use them too.

For tier 0 france, we'd have this, and im afraid it would die?
Curtiss_SBC-4_Helldiver_(15518045454).jp

 

I'm mainly trying to think of truly French candidates. I joined WW2OL to play French, I was not amused to find that most of the French arsenal was the same American gear I had been using across various games since I was 5. Unfortunately i'm not terribly well versed on kit so I can't say what would be the best fit, but I'm of the opinion that a subpar native option is better than a superior foreign option. If I wanted to be American, I'd be American.

Not an Assault rifle necessarily, just something similar to the BAR/FG42. Help the French and British keep up in the later tiers instead of being shuffled off to the rear like they are now. FN and BREN could do it if they make them shoulder fire as well.

The day of the Vickers is never over. Even in tier 3 I see vets using them for FB defence. You don't need anything heaver than an MG to kill an engie after all.

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 The problem is a part from the Thompson there really isn't any SMG to give the French as far as I know that were available in any sort of quantity so my gues is  that they should get that in leu if the grese gun.

it would be nice if both of them and the British got a limited 50 round drum version as well because it's my understanding they both used that

france should get the guppy,

I can spend all day listing stuff but I don't have a time right now these are just a couple of key points France really needs its own airplanes

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Honestly,

Until the existing supply and strategic models are addressed;  I don't think anyone or the game needs anything else more essential than that. Warping flags are a real drag in my humble opinion. You see complaints about how setting FSMs out too far are ineffective, that is mainly because of rotating supply which kills attrition and limits successful battles or attacks to having to be close to the town. New equipment doesn't fix that. Fix the current supply model first and then we can address any other missing pieces of equipment for each country. Otherwise we'll make the same mistake as in the past and the a lot of the new players will move on regardless and some of the old interest will dwindle. I know this is not the intent of this thread but these are my two cents.  It's fun to think about and possibly this thread will eventually be more useful n the future.

With all due respect,

S!

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The German faction needs stuff just so the game stops using the same units for both sides. For instance their 37mm flak gun and some kind of E-boat for the navy. They really need the Ju 88. That was one of the most-produced aircraft of the war, and it nearly fits WW2online gameplay perfectly unlike the He 111.

 

The US needs its own armored car and AA, such as the quad .50 mount. If someone thinks that they need a tankette then give them the M2. They also need at least once iconic fighter like the P-47 or P-51. They really need paratroopers. The entire faction was slapped on to the game for marketing value, it’s still here for that reason but it’s missing much of the best-known US equipment of the war.

 

If people ever get stumped on what to add they should just look at the War Thunder unit trees. I don’t think that the game really needs more infantry weapons unless the devs are planning another Rapid Assault thing, because there are already many weapons that are just direct upgrades/downgrades to existing ones, or even redundant. Just in the tier-0 German infantry brigade I see a MP40 SMG unit, a MP34 SMG unit, and a MP34 “reserve” SMG unit. When they add assault rifles they're just going to play like more accurate SMGs, and you won't notice much of a difference except outside depot combat.

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44 minutes ago, david01 said:

The German faction needs stuff just so the game stops using the same units for both sides. For instance their 37mm flak gun and some kind of E-boat for the navy. They really need the Ju 88. That was one of the most-produced aircraft of the war, and it nearly fits WW2online gameplay perfectly unlike the He 111.

 

The US needs its own armored car and AA, such as the quad .50 mount. If someone thinks that they need a tankette then give them the M2. They also need at least once iconic fighter like the P-47 or P-51. They really need paratroopers. The entire faction was slapped on to the game for marketing value, it’s still here for that reason but it’s missing much of the best-known US equipment of the war.

 

If people ever get stumped on what to add they should just look at the War Thunder unit trees. I don’t think that the game really needs more infantry weapons unless the devs are planning another Rapid Assault thing, because there are already many weapons that are just direct upgrades/downgrades to existing ones, or even redundant. Just in the tier-0 German infantry brigade I see a MP40 SMG unit, a MP34 SMG unit, and a MP34 “reserve” SMG unit. When they add assault rifles they're just going to play like more accurate SMGs, and you won't notice much of a difference except outside depot combat.

As soon as you invest $5 million dollars to CRS they will start on your ideas. ;)

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1 hour ago, lipton said:

As soon as you invest $5 million dollars to CRS they will start on your ideas. ;)

It's not nearly that expensive to kick out some new units, even with this game's reliance on .flt files and a relatively expensive Presagis software license.

Edited by david01

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39 minutes ago, david01 said:

It's not nearly that expensive to kick out some new units, even with this game's reliance on .flt files and a relatively expensive Presagis software license.

n9wnp8warn7n.gif

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2 hours ago, david01 said:

The entire faction was slapped on to the game for marketing value

That would be an incorrect assumption, but you are welcome to keep having it

 

7 hours ago, muromachi said:

I'm mainly trying to think of truly French candidates. I joined WW2OL to play French, I was not amused to find that most of the French arsenal was the same American gear I had been using across various games since I was 5. Unfortunately i'm not terribly well versed on kit so I can't say what would be the best fit, but I'm of the opinion that a subpar native option is better than a superior foreign option. If I wanted to be American, I'd be American.

You would have to do a quick study on the french equipment prior to june 1940.
You will be surprised and unfortunately disappointed in some aspects.

They had LOTS of aircraft models, a literally confusing amount of models.
But many of them existed in single digit numbers, lots of them were trainers, many of them were simply outdated and could have never stood against 110's 109's and ju87's
A few were good, for 1940 at least, and existed in at least 1000 units, but many simply don't.

Not a history book, but good for doing a quick run through
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_French_Air_Force_during_World_War_II


They have designing and engineering going on, but if you read up on it some, you learn it was a really horribly frustrating process in france.
Might be one of the reasons france put in large orders to the US for planes like the H75 and the DB7, designs being started and cancelled left and right.

After June 1940 of course you know what happens, France goes dark and there won't be any more native designs for many years.

Armor wise we fare a bit better in variety, they are not nearly all represented in game yet.
When Tier 0 is one day considered 100% complete, france will have the largest variety or armored unit types of any other country in the game during tier 0
They will run the gamut from small tin cans like the FT17, to the AMR infantry tanks, to the AMC cavalry tanks, the somua, the D1 and D2 the B12 bis, R35, R40, the 2C land yacht, possibly the FCM F1 depending on what concrete indisputable data exists, also possibly the G1 and the V39  and the S40/SaU40.

Now even without the possibles, most of those would be tanks never seen in another game before, but they will only take you through tier 0 and possibly into tier 1
Then again, we have no choice but to resort to what real life gave us then, which was free french troops being supplied with shermans and such.

infantry arms wise, france with the inclusion of the MAS40 is pretty much complete with the arms that had besides some older hotchkiss MG's
They have their MAS36 and MAS38 and Liebel, and FN29, just add in a berthier for someone and you're done, but none of those is inferior and can well carry them to wars end. 

But the problem with france, beyond june 1940 is that many times a subpar native version quickly becomes a 1923 sub par native design VS a 1943 monumentally superior design
In april 1940 France was the tiger tank of the battlefield, but in august of 1942 they no longer have any designs to stand up against what's on the battlefield.
The fight would become unfun to even attempt, and you have to concede to use the equipment you ordered elsewhere, or were given or loaned so you can stay in the fight.

At the end of the day, it does not matter of the tank was assembled in detroit, or the plane assembled in dayton, If there is a frenchman controlling it, it's now french and the fat lady aint sung. 
 

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