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david01

Public/Private mission toggle needed ASAP

56 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, merlin51 said:

We are attacking stuff, the mission is to attack stuff, the FM as already stated is right at the attack.

Everything from the sounds of battle to the mission briefing to the map markings the or objective arrow say
<----------- BAD GUYS THISA WAY
Joe and the Greentree clan are walking 2km -------------------------------------------> THATA WAY
To find 0 action, get p***ed off and log out 20 minutes later, regardless of the fact people are saying hey guys over here, regardless of the fact the FM's truck is now running out and about, risking getting shot up needlessly, to shuttle them back to action, because some how they cant see any chat or understand why a friendly truck
has come out to meet them.

Do you think a better tutorial vids would help? One problem I've noticed is the newer players aren't adjusted to a large perpetual map (hence the wandering). Most other games drop you into the middle of a battle.

Communication is definitely the key, but HOW to communicate is the hurtle? 

 

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I duno I feel because no other game relies on chat that people simply do not lool at it. Strangely enough though as seeing your own name pop up 3 times in a row surely must be visible? then again maybe people are just occupied with their surroundings.

Make communication not key. Its the only way.

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There used to be a spawn in timer iirc.  So something similar.  That way plaayers are already grouped up.

Edited by agenda21

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What if the Mission Orders Popped up on the middle of the screen at mission start and stayed there for approximately 5 seconds

 

Like big Yellow 40 point font.   So whatever you typed would be right there.

 

 

Edited by denw2o
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1 hour ago, CHIMM said:

 

 

Quote

There was squad missions and I remember that whole thing, and it was super cool. However right now we have to think that squad missions would be detrimental to introduce certainly at the heels of our release on Steam. Why? Here's why. Missions are the gateway to accessing the battlefield. If a new user comes in, and he doesn't have a place to go or the most options to choose from that's called alienating a player from being able to effectively get in to the game.

 

Now some things we have talked about internally as opposed to just "let's just bring back the old squad missions exactly as they were" maybe we can do something similar where we can allow a mission leader to invite people to their missions? Or to not necessarily ban someone from their mission but have some sort of lock and control on entry in to their mission. We think that might have some --we want to look at it differently. We just don't want to bring up what was because that will alienate people. We we want the most opportunity for someone to actually get in to the game and experience it. And because again missions are the gateway we have to be very careful, it's a very delicate thing to mess with.

 

Are squad missions coming back exactly as they were? The answer is no. Is there some restricted or empowering the mission leader to have more control over his mission and it's participants? That's something we're certainly more interested in discussing but there's not active development on it at this moment.

Well this isn't good at all. If you guys are worried about alienating players I can guarantee that the 30 or so new greentags that spawned on my mission had a worse experience and felt more alienated walking around in the middle of nowhere than if they simply didn't see my mission, and spawned somewhere better. A mission lock is something that is needed immediately because every bored player is another thumbs down on Steam.

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52 minutes ago, david01 said:

...every bored player is another thumbs down on Steam.

 

This.  And unfortunately it's also, "Every (insert one) careless/clueless/in a hurry/know-it-all/stubborn/stupid player is ALSO another thumbs down on Steam."

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

Edited by odonovan1
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2 hours ago, CHIMM said:

Do you think a better tutorial vids would help? One problem I've noticed is the newer players aren't adjusted to a large perpetual map (hence the wandering). Most other games drop you into the middle of a battle.

Communication is definitely the key, but HOW to communicate is the hurtle? 

 

Vids may help, if they watch them, but we have already seen that requiring something like reading the instructions results in scathing feed back.
I am not sure why, just the way of things today.
The expectation seems to be that everything will work like Halo on Xbox controls, and you just drop in and go, and there wont be any wrong way to be going.
I suppose i can understand assuming that in a way, but what i dont understand is the illogical hatred of "Hi this game does not work like that at all, so we are going to have you go through these helpful training missions to get you up to speed"

Communication?
That part i dont understand, all i can guess is that they play these other games by themselves never working with the other people in them
simply team deathmatch in various sets of clothes?

It is not just this game, you could be playing wot wt h&g bf1 cod etc, no one seems to use the communications unless perhaps its an organized squad/clan
who play for keeps.

How do we break through that?
I dont think any of us old timers every played multiplayer games that way.

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I make sure to set the orders on missions I have to blow FBs, or expired missions, or etc., to communicate that new players should DESPAWN, in all caps, and give a brief explanation. Those orders hang at the top of the screen, and they also display in the GUI before you ever even spawn in. It seems to help a little better.

I'm also a recruiter for my squad, so often greenies who hop on will join the squad, and I'll get an extra notification on that. Then I just copy+paste that this mission won't have action and to go somewhere else to have fun.

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You know the feeling I get out of this topic is.

 

 

Nope we won't do Squad missions or private mission ( I understand that the game world needs gerneral population missions ,you cant tell me you guys cant find a middle ground here? ). It will be You Vets just have to look on how the Greentags all wander about .

Once the population drops again and the revenue does not come in or Steam did not meet subscription goals .

I feel we will get to hear sorry guys , you were not able to retain enough players we would like to introduce this and that to the game but to do so we need a membership drive.

If you guys are not willing to find a middle ground . You will need to lock the chat bar,and when a new player gets a PM it needs to be splashed across his screen so he can't miss it.

Now if it's a language barrier then oh well but even the none english speaking players would/should react when their name is called.

Sorry this is the Vibe I'm getting and my gut usually serves me well.

Edited by dre21
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1 hour ago, dre21 said:

If you guys are not willing to find a middle ground . You will need to lock the chat bar,and when a new player gets a PM it needs to be splashed across his screen so he can't miss it.

^^^

 

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Notion of ‘Private mission’.

I guess I didn’t really see it as that.

I’m 100% on board with the openness of battlefield, battlefield for all approach. Interesting that Squad missions had already existed in the past. Hadn’t realised you guys have already put forward your stance on ‘private missions’ either. Fair play.

Don’t know about others so much, I was thinking more of a ‘This FMS isn’t valid yet or might never be, or not ready yet’ so toggle off. Not so much private missions.  

Whether you could ‘Open/close an FMS’ or, as is, just sitting in an Opel and waiting deploying/deleting as you see fit (the option exists already in theory, just stay in the truck), it doesn’t matter, you’re still going to get people spawning from your origin, lost, whom need guidance of what’s going.

A lot of these situations are a result of the dynamics of the game. More Indication of what’s going on. I spawned in AF HQ the other day in a last-minute attempt to protect factories. New guy asked me where the tanks were that needed bombing, and rightfully so no doubt, the actual brigade is near an AO/DO so it follows.

I think lots could be done with the HUD/Brigades screen etc to give more depth to mission’s/mission types, maybe with tooltips for new guy’s/gals explaining what to expect. Do tooltips still exist?

All MS’s look and function the same but we use them for a whole host of reasons. Many flavours.

Communication

I think we’ve all experienced the masses of uncommunicative wild recruits recently. It’s not always that they don’t care or aren’t interested, although that totally can and does occur.

For instance; Less than 24hours ago Axis Lost Luxembourg. Allied did nicely and capped with a single link and we had 4 active links after Ab’s gone. Towards the end, I stopped what I was doing and drove a truck to town and started to recap. I was joined by others, great! None recapped. Not sure if they tried. Would they want to? We had enough on the mission to target +90% of all depots. All recruits. Mission orders were as simple and clear as a mountain stream. Upon the town being captured, a lot remained in town. It’s not uncommon as of late. I broadcast a message over side and mission In English/French/Spanish/German something like ‘Hey guys, Luxembourg is no longer active, please join an active battle’. Upon revisiting the mission, the mission pop had grown. I realised some were talking in Hungarian. Once I communicated in Hungarian most left the mission. I would welcome an in house auto translate. Alternatively, we need a way to traverse language and fallback to a more basic and intuitive communication. Maybe part of the answer is training.

If people don’t wish to be helped though, then they wont be.

Training

I think you guys have done a great job with the training tutorials with what’s there. As it stands the mandatory /optional training for X/Y/Z. What I often see in game with the new guys is them demonstrating an understanding of this. i.e. Using grenades. (: Walking towards the mission target. How often do we set the target to what’s relevant? Numerous times when this doesn’t occur. It’s just the games mechanics.

What I think could be added asap;

·         Training on how to play the game. Sounds stupid but I’m being genuine. Even if it’s somehow simplified or in game ‘hints’ at what’s going on. Something simular to the tutorials. I’m not talking a complete manual/training scheme, that’s ridiculous. Just a… What’s an AO/DO maybe. Whats actually going on. What happens when your down to Bunker, what you need to do… Defence/Attack 101. Maybe automatic orders... lol. What to do at a FB etc.

·         How to use a truck and set fms. Time and time again 1 fms to attack and when it goes down 70% will walk from the FB until someone sets another. This is 50% of what’s needed to know to drive a tank and might help save some time on their part. Ignition, forward gear, reverse, brake, deploy fms job done.

·         Flight school. Crazy that this slipped from being mandatory, pretty sure it was. Pretty sure this been mentioned too. The constant mindless trashing of equipment… etc etc…  I think I heard you’re going to do something about this. Don’t get me wrong, I probably did the same thing 12 years ago, hell, I still crash now.

Ultimately if you haven’t been instructed in what to do, you can’t expect to know unless someone or something steps in (reliance and need of squads/help/PB/Discord/native speakers).

You could, in theory, expand these tutorial’s and integrate them into the game someday, using the relationship with rank and equipment as a template. Have Rank, Equipment, Training, achievements and awards all rolled together.

Apologies for the war and peace.

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On 10/27/2017 at 10:11 AM, dre21 said:

So what about Squad missions. Or are they considered Private?

If that's the case then us Vets will reluctant watch on how Greentags after Greentags walk the wrong way. Without ever responding , in the process alert every enemy within earshot of our presence. Just to know in the back of our mind they will log, bad mouth the game we support and love .

All the whilst watch the player numbers dwindle in the process ,no others will follow cause of the stellar reviews this game gets on Steam from said Greentags.

 

 

On 10/27/2017 at 10:25 AM, CHIMM said:

If the "squad missions" were not available to players, then yes they would be considered private.

 

They had Squad Missions and CRS killed them around the time CRS was trying to kill Squads to promote unity or something like that. That was when people started leaving the game in droves.

THEN CRS started saying "we've changed our mind... we like squads, pleeeeeze don't leave.... but you STILL can't have Squad Missions back."  *rolls eyes*

Attempting to push out Squads was one of the biggest mistakes CRS ever made. Up there with ToE's & the HC system. :popcorn:

Edited by lipton
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Another situation I saw recently are paratrooper missions. Since we have no other tools it would be great to set the mission to "private" once the plane is lifted. That way other players don't spawn at an empty airfield. This was actually one of the better situations because the player communicated and spoke english. I've been on paratrooper missions where there are 15+ players tossing smoke and shooting randomly on the airfield, the only plane having long left.

hdqcpr.jpg

More important than any one situation though is the notion that mission leaders aren't acting in bad faith when they decide to close spawning to their mission. I don't know how people can think that mission leaders will maliciously cut off the rest of the playerbase if given the ability, when most of the messages on side chat are mission leaders demanding people to FLOOD their mission.

Edited by david01

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9 hours ago, saffron said:

Flight school. Crazy that this slipped from being mandatory

People are unfortunately hating all of the mandatory training.
Its quite the hatefest of feed back on it, even when its live and your training with other guys rather than all isolated in some offline mode.

I wish there was a mandatory flight training, but i am afraid the new players would hate it.
They have come from a generation where games have no boxes and no manuals and the gameplay has been much simplified to avoid needing them, and so they have no patience for it.

Us old guys come from a generation when you had to know how to write custom autoexec and config sys in order to play some games and many games came with a manual of several hundred pages and had big stand up key charts etc.
We actually thought it a bummer when a game did not have these materials, it was kind of part of the fun.

Back when Airwarrior DOS was the king of the combat sims, i spent a ton of time playing the game in offline mode until i could take off and land with reasonable success and do basic maneuvers and control the airplane without having to keep looking at the controls card i printed out before i even logged into a live arena, it was expected of you, from there it was the relaxed realism arena for a long time.

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Axis HC pulled the AO awhile ago, and there is no way to stop the greentags and low-rank players from spawning. They're moving in on foot. Once a mission gets to the top of active battles more and more players get pumped in to a mission regardless if it's a good fit for them or not.

inakoc.jpg

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Ya, crazy, can pull the MS - sometimes that doesn't even work.

New idea.

ML should BOTH be able to disable spawning at a MS (without deleting) and reenable, AND should be able to disable spawning into mission completely, then reenable as desired.

We need this with STEAM or not, there are times I want to stop spawning into my mission, but I can't control it.

 

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I had some thoughts about missions.

 

1) Eliminate the population graph.  Don't show anyone which missions are "busiest."

2) HC sets the order of the missions on the list.  Put the important AOs/DOs at the top, in the same way threads get "stickied" on forums.

3) Make it mandatory for each player (below a certain rank?) to communicate on the "Mission" channel before spawning in.  No chattie, no shootie.  :)

 

I don't know what happened to the flight training, but it never was actual flight training.  It was starting, taxiing, and using the controls.  I would LOVE to see at least that much put back into training, as an option, along with armor and naval training.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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26 minutes ago, delems said:

ML should BOTH be able to disable spawning at a MS (without deleting) and reenable, AND should be able to disable spawning into mission completely, then reenable as desired.

I dont think that is going to happen, too easy to use it to exclude people.

"Hey buds, everyone spawned, yea? ok closing spawning to the n00bs"

Back a year or many ago, we had squad missions.
At first they seemed great, a way to tighten up the coordination for special ops or a squad night event.
TO make things easier, even a no rank squad member was allowed to create them.

The general pop could not create missions until at least rank 3

What began happening, and everyone is going to do the denial thing here and we will be in egypt soon, but what began happening is everyone would start doing everything in squad missions for various reasons.
No wanting to deal with non squad people, fear of spies, and dislike of n00bs are some of the reasons.

And what we would get at times was a bunch of lower than mission posting rank freelance non squaded people that had no missions to join
and they had to ask people in chat if someone could please open a mission at least long enough for them to join it.
This would happen a heck of a lot in air and naval stuff.
You'd see planes lifting, you'd see FMBs on river patrol, but all the missions were squad only, so if you had no rank, you couldn't play.

I dont think CRS has any interest in opening the possibility of that kind of situation again.

 

Turning an FM on and off isnt a bad idea, there is a lot of times that is super useful like when an FM is camped but all its camped by is a single persistent 232 or vickers
You turn off spawning for say 10 minutes, and alert in mission orders.
The camper will either bring in an engineer if he really means to close the FM, or he will leave if he is just score padding.
If the fm doesnt go pop, it might be safe to turn back on after the camper gets bored.

People can still spawn the mission get atgs, tow them grab infantry do a hot drop etc, and yes they can still decide to go on a walkabout 3km to noman's land because
they dont ask hi guys what's going on here but i dont think you can fix that with code

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Actually - the active battles tab is not correct. It shows missions.

 

It should just show all the AOs and DOs.

Then, when you click on an AO/DO - you see all the missions for that AO/DO - from all branches - so is easy to join.

And yes, HC should be able to 'tag' missions or even battles (AO/DO) as the key or important ones.

 

Regardless though - we STILL need ML control of missions - disable at MS level or at mission level - and enable as need.

 

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This is beyond ridiculous now. Axis stopped the attack at Eersel, and there wasn't even EWS on the town. A depot mission had a FMS out to the allied FB and it got almost 40 people, nearly all of them greentags spawning. The only saving grace was that it was a depot mission so it didn't have the entire brigade supply to drain (and that has happened before multiple times).

kcjlsw.jpg

I decide to check out the Monschau AO and just play some AA/FB defense. Within two minutes somehow I had over a dozen greentags spawning on my mission. I didn't haven have a FMS set. There's no way that I can personally message and communicate with all these people when they spawn so fast.

iyhybs.jpg

jnlcpl.jpg

And we had only two HC online with three AOs, so mission leaders need some kind of control if we want any hope of guiding the wave of greentags. Just getting them off of dead missions and to active missions is extremely difficult right now, nevermind any further coordination.

pkhrqk.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, david01 said:

Just getting them off of dead missions and to active missions is extremely difficult right now, nevermind any further coordination.

hqdefault.jpg

Welcome to my world.
Ran an FM out to verviers AF, after several attempts got one in on the south side.
Each attempt i had to keep stopping to pick up running greentags.

1 out of 15 would actually talk MAYBE, quite a few would simply not get in the damned truck, nor would they talk, just kept walking.

Mind you mission orders state CLEARLY what is going on.
I keep repeating in mission channel whats going on.
I right click tags and PM them whats going on

Crickets

I get FM set up finally, south side of AF
It exploded with greentags, GOOD!
Still a conga line of green tags walking from FB though, but they   would   not    get    in    the    damned    truck

I cant save them when they wont let me?

We capture Verviers YAY!
Changed mission orders and spammed into mission chat, Mission success, RTB get your points.
Stated mission was over, shift to liege defense missions.
I deleted my FM
A greentag deployed an FM, off in the forest.
I removed the FM, and repeated that we were done here, no threats, lets move to liege.
Another greentag deploys an FM, i remove it.
There are now blobs of green tags roaming the field and forest for no reason as well as walking out of the FB

1 in 15 perhaps actually pays any attention to communication.
There are 40+ greentags on the mission now, they are not in discord.
Why dont they respond to chat?

Mission over. Change to Liege defense.
Spammed in everything i can think of from google translate, which should at least elicit a response?

Mission vorbei. Zur Liege Verteidigung wechseln

Rènwù jiéshù. Gǎi wèi “liè rì” fángyù

missão acabou. mudar para a defesa "Liege"

misión terminada cambiar a la defensa "Lieja"

Misshon'ōbā. " Liege" bōgyo ni henkō suru


Nope, i finally had no choice but to log off and leave them to their own devices
:( 

Need giant POPUP YELLOW TEXT LIKE THIS
WE DONE WE GO ELSEWHERE!
(GIANT GONG SOUND EFFECT At 102Db)

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When you get a major influx of GREENTAGS and you say on the TARGET channel or MISSION channel that you are blowing a quiet FB or doing repairs on AI and there is NO ENEMY here. You still get a flood of NOOBS even tho your ORDERS say nothing happening here and you will not get any points. They don't listen to you. Even when you state the same thing several times.  <<<<<<<<<<<<

So, I firmly believe we need to make restricted missions. or something. I had 15-20 greentags show up on a eFB bust that didn't have any enemy that could spawn in (Navy, Air or No Brigs in their town). I told them and they just wondered around for 5-10 minutes or followed me, while shooting, nading or smoking. I am sure these players didn't like the experience and maybe left the game totally DISSATISFIED.

Here is a thought. On a restricted mission (?). A message pops up, stating, example. "This mission has no enemy to engage." If you still want to get on the mission, please press 'OK'. If not, press 'BACK'.   The example would come from the ORDERS. or something like that. The mission isn't totally restricted as you cant stop someone from getting on it. But it would require you to make a decision. This I think would satisfy all parties and not strand dozens of people (noobs in most cases) in an area where they are not needed.

What say yee??

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5 minutes ago, imded said:

What say yee??

Honestly?
I am afraid that possibly the majority would press OK anyways.

I mean hey if you wanna grab a rifleman and help slap satchels, thats cool.
But like you noticed, that isn't what most of them do.

Maybe we need a big giant popup can not hide giant text message like WOW does with .raidwarning's from the raid leader
though perhaps it would be ignored also?

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On 10/29/2017 at 3:16 PM, merlin51 said:

Need giant POPUP YELLOW TEXT LIKE THIS

WE DONE WE GO ELSEWHERE!
(GIANT GONG SOUND EFFECT At 102Db)

 

This!

 

This!

 

Oh, by the ghods, THIS!

 

Merlin, you just won the internets.

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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