arno

We have a camping problem.

154 posts in this topic

I took a look at the top kills in a sorte list and what I see there in my opinion is bad for the game. I assume the sorties on that list are all FMS camps. I also assume most of those dying in these camps are green tags. The FMS is easily camped. The design needs to be revisited.  Killing our new players like that is killing any future the game might have.

 

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We do have objects called PPOs that can be used to redesign the FM at will.
Would not the failure to deploy them rest on the shoulders of the camped?

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Green tags and FTP players don’t have the rank or access to engineers.   Why would they pay after that experience?

I looked at some of those sorties btw.  Almost all newbs, no veterans.  

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8 minutes ago, arno said:

Green tags, and FTP players don’t have the rank or access to engineers.

They got sandbags, tons of sandbags, and foxholes too, spawn a rifleman and you got sandbags

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Part of the problem is the game and the UI. It could do a better job communicating to the players if something is camped, where best to go, etc. I believe most people would agree on that.

However, part of the problem also rests on the camped players. They spawn. They die. Now, what they should do, is think to themselves "Damn, spawn is camped, I should spawn elsewhere. I should also post to mission chat that the FMS is camped."

Instead, they say nothing, and respawn dozens more times, do nothing but die repeatedy, throwing all of the supply into a blender, and having 0 fun, then blaming the game.

That kind of obstinate behavior isn't really something the game should address, necessarily. It's also something we're seeing beyond camped spawns.

The design of the game could be improved, but it's not bad enough to be wholly responsible for what's going on.

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I don’t disagree.  I get killed exactly one time at any camp I stumble into. The decision to be camped belongs to the camped. But we are talking about players who barely know how to find a battle. Players who shoot at AI. Players who walk to town from a FB.  Remember what it was like when you first played this game.? There is a lot to learn and these camped players are not getting a chance to learn or potentially to decide they like this game. And let’s be honest about this, the FMS is easy to find and super easy to camp.   MLs (veteran players) should be pulling camped FMSs. 

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1 hour ago, arno said:

I took a look at the top kills in a sorte list and what I see there in my opinion is bad for the game. I assume the sorties on that list are all FMS camps. I also assume most of those dying in these camps are green tags. The FMS is easily camped. The design needs to be revisited.  Killing our new players like that is killing any future the game might have.

I suggested that FMS be able to spawn medium ATGs but Xoom won't consider it because he thinks they'll devastate the battlefield. I suggested that mission leaders be able to disable spawning temporarily but the dev position is that they won't allow that because they think that it will alienate players.

 

From what I've seen the only solution proposed to FMS camping is for players to aggressively usurp mission lead and delete the FMS from missions. That means pissing people off and causing more drama, and relies on someone with experience spawning on the mission and making a snap decision before an entire brigade is drained. It's also not even a gameplay solution. Delete every FMS that starts to get camped and there won't be any FMS around.

 

I post a video of greentags getting hellcamped for several minutes. I post screens of random FMS being flooded with greentags before anyone can even figure out what's going on. Ingame the overworked HC are running around wondering how a HQ can drain an infantry brigade, and why flags are suddenly empty. The game has a sub-50% rating on Steam. People still don't think that there's a problem.

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1 hour ago, arno said:

The design needs to be revisited.

Build your own. (Not directed personally at arno)
Rather than offer excuses why it can't be done, just go do it.
The biggest problem is mostly no one will do it.

rtvDcQj.png

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The new FMS is a problem for noobs.  The only reason some of us can't see it is because we vets know the ins and outs of the game very well.  

 

Games constantly evolve.  The FMS was a great change.  Rather than get rid of it, let's constructively talk about how it can be improved.  

 

Maybe the damage thresholds are too high?  Maybe the spawn point needs to be moved further into the FMS?  Maybe an FMS in the shape of the FB Infantry Spawns would be ideal? (ATGs can spawn on the outside of the sandbag ring)

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They fixed it once when they muted the colors of the FRU. Air had trouble seeing, even tanks on the ground had trouble finding them. Then they made a really big and obvious blob that even a blind man could find.

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should have a device in which ML could
lock and unlock the spawm option
without removing the FMS

[ ] enable     [ ] disable  (for spawn)

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I suggest that bushes be added behind the FMS so a newly spawned person can’t be seen.  This way the camper has a harder time seeing someone spawn in, hides the flag to help disguise the FMS, and helps the FMS blend in with the surroundings.  Not a complete solution but an easy fix that should help.

Edited by GrAnit
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11 minutes ago, GrAnit said:

I suggest that bushes be added behind the FMS so a newly spawned person can’t be seen.  This way the camper has a harder time seeing someone spawn in, hides the flag to help disguise the FMS, and helps the FMS blend in with the surroundings.  Not a complete solution but an easy fix that should help.

Solid suggestion.

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3 hours ago, Capco said:

Rather than get rid of it, let's constructively talk about how it can be improved.

Accelerate PPO refresh time when in proximity to FM to facilitate building it up faster?
Even if the reload simply reset the PPO timers would work

Maybe a few more PPOs, nothing crazy or hard to make, just like some bushes, and maybe a hull down tank pit (WHich would be berm since we can not go down currently) and the little concrete MG bunkers

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3 hours ago, merlin51 said:

Build your own. (Not directed personally at arno)
Rather than offer excuses why it can't be done, just go do it.
The biggest problem is mostly no one will do it.

rtvDcQj.png

I do try to fortify my FMS.  I also try to bury the spawn point in a bush if possible.  Another good idea I use when working with my squad is to build a second FMS with 300-500m to support each other.   Building a huge fortication is possible, but cool down timers and the desire to stay hidden make it unlikely many would choose to do so.  

 

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7 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Accelerate PPO refresh time when in proximity to FM to facilitate building it up faster?
Even if the reload simply reset the PPO timers would work

Maybe a few more PPOs, nothing crazy or hard to make, just like some bushes, and maybe a hull down tank pit (WHich would be berm since we can not go down currently) and the little concrete MG bunkers

Camouflage netting would be a great PPO.

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43 minutes ago, arno said:

Camouflage netting would be a great PPO.

Yea, for an 88, or anything similar we get later

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45 minutes ago, arno said:

I do try to fortify my FMS.  I also try to bury the spawn point in a bush if possible.  Another good idea I use when working with my squad is to build a second FMS with 300-500m to support each other.   Building a huge fortication is possible, but cool down timers and the desire to stay hidden make it unlikely many would choose to do so.  

 

Cool downs is the hardest hurdle
I try to nag HC to find what's going to get AO's early so i can get things set up because it takes time, and finding willing helpers is hard.

Camo is semi useless to an extent simply because the FM will be found, you just watch the ant train
I mean it does help a bit in the short term, but ultimately it will be found.
That's what i try to plan for, the inevitable.

Ive set some up where the damned FM was more fun than the town fight.
Depends on map location, but some areas have some really great places.

But yea, the time it takes is a killer

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The FMS takes 1:30 to build, and it's built by a ridiculously loud truck. I don't know whose idea it was to make it so long but it was a terrible one. It gives any vehicle a good time period to get in to position and camp the FMS. It also hurts the underpop team badly but that's another topic. The FMS should be set in like 5 seconds.

 

Building little PPO forts is mostly masturbation. They take away players that could be used for rushing town, take a long time to build, still don't protect against tanks that well and get nuked by the first bomber that comes along.

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5 minutes ago, david01 said:

I don't know whose idea it was to make it so long but it was a terrible one.

Mostly the player base, and pretty sure 5 seconds is not going to happen ever again.

7 minutes ago, david01 said:

Building little PPO forts is mostly masturbation.

Fine then don't build them, you rarely set an FM anyways so it won't really matter for you one way or the other.
let your guys just stand there and get raped by mg fire with nothing for cover.

16 minutes ago, david01 said:

They take away players that could be used for rushing town

How many flags have you captured recently?
You're complaining about something taking away, which might be understandable if you're the only guy capping flags by yourself and got 600 caps this camp
or something, but you don't.

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7 hours ago, david01 said:

The FMS takes 1:30 to build, and it's built by a ridiculously loud truck. I don't know whose idea it was to make it so long but it was a terrible one. It gives any vehicle a good time period to get in to position and camp the FMS. It also hurts the underpop team badly but that's another topic. The FMS should be set in like 5 seconds.

 

Building little PPO forts is mostly masturbation. They take away players that could be used for rushing town, take a long time to build, still don't protect against tanks that well and get nuked by the first bomber that comes along.

...and the truck has to sit in the open in order to get the MS in the bushes...

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 I'm like 12th on that list and those were not camping kills,  not technically At any rate,  most of them were cutting kills which is sort of like camping but not quite I had to kill tanks and AT guns as well.

 Camping is fun, don't feed the campers. 

 The thing I don't like most about this game, well one of them is that you can't camp air fields with a plane,  at least not often,  but I rarely fly  but that's another story. 

This game is really all about camping whether you want to look at that like that or not  whether it's at the FMS or the AB or the CP,   The latter of which is a big freaking death trap. 

Part of the learning curve is figuring out how to avoid those things and as they stated before they're not looking to capture everybody that tries the game those that make the cut Will be smart enough and dedicated enough to stick it out.

 The underlying problem and one that is not really being looked at  is a lot of players have a sort of suicidal mindset they don't care if they die at least not enough to go out of their way to avoid it and that's not just new players a lot of vetrain players move that way,   Only the Stat whores really try to avoid being killed at least on the whole, and while my stat whoring days are sort of on hold I am still very much wired that way.

 

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Not sure where my thread went but the game is now rated mostly negative (39%) on Steam. I think the camping is one of the biggest factors in that.

2 hours ago, Sudden said:

...and the truck has to sit in the open in order to get the MS in the bushes...

In several ways building the new FMS is now worse than the old mobile spawns from years ago despite being much harder to kill, and being able to kick out light ATGs. You could set a MS immediately and get some momentum going. You could glide in and get yourself a few hundred meters closer (or km with the laffy and you were good). You could set a MS wherever you could park a truck, whether it was at the bottom of a ravine or tucked inside a building.

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Camping is killing a defenseless player as they spawn in.  Any player that can fight back and can make a choice is not camped imho.  So cutting is not a camp.  Area control is not a camp.  I often set up on a FB  at 300-500m range and engage in what I consider to be area control.  My enemy can spawn safely and make choices, but given my positioning, the most common choices made end up in death.  

Also, camping can sometimes be purposeful and thus okay.  Closing a vehicle spawn to support an AB rush, perfectly okay.  Same goes for a FB bust or shutting down a FMS because the engineers are trying to get to it.

My sole concern in posting this is the ease with and what seems to be the pervasiveness of FMS camping.  I have not called out any player, I have just observed that the top kills in a sorte list is insane and suggests a problem.  The problem appears to me to be that FMSs are commonly camped with no other purpose other than to camp.  This sort of camping is driving away the new players and we need those new players to stay.

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