arno

We have a camping problem.

154 posts in this topic

31 minutes ago, saronin said:

What is the real alternative here?  Let EI run loose since you can’t take it down?

^this^

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3 hours ago, saronin said:

What is the real alternative here?  Let EI run loose since you can’t take it down?

Behaviorally, there is none.   So what's needed is a kick in that direction. 

 

Make them easier to destroy.  If a sapper can run up to a Tiger or Chuchill and destroy it with a single charge... I just don't see why an FMS should take more than 2.  

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-Implement open spawn point that can't spawn hard counters, or even soft counters to types of units.

"Well gee there's no way we can solve this."

This is why it's hard to have confidence in the game. This is basic FPS stuff.

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3 hours ago, david01 said:

-Implement open spawn point that can't spawn hard counters, or even soft counters to types of units.

"Well gee there's no way we can solve this."

This is why it's hard to have confidence in the game. This is basic FPS stuff.

-Implement open spawn point that can't spawn hard counters, or even soft counters to types of units.

"Hey guys, so this is a new and improved spawn point. Keep in mind its limitations, though, and be sure to notify your mission lead to delete it if it's not working out!"

 

- Players then each individually spawn into a camped mobile spawn, say nothing, do it again until they drain supply, complain that the system is broken, leave.

 

This is why it's hard to have confidence in new players. This is basic FPS stuff.

 

18 hours ago, copeman said:

The games rules creates the camping. That said, when an idiot actually is INSIDE an efms, that makes me feel like I am playing some sandbox fps. I'm sure we can all name names, I can add a couple that just did it to me, a couple that post here a lot. You do that you are no better than one of the yahoos who do it in other games. Made me leave the game. No interest in playing that. I'm sure others feel the same.  Until that is fixed I am seriously going to think about continuing my sub or not.

Stop spawning into an FMS that has an EI inside of it. Communicate to your mission lead, and to the people on the target, that it is camped. Get it removed. Use ".takelead" if you have to.

The responsibility of keeping your FMS defended is on YOU, not the enemy. If they get to the FMS, and you let them, their reward is shutting it down as a possible avenue of attack. Your punishment is losing that avenue of attack.

Making the FMS too flimsy denies the ability to appropriately defend it, especially from distant enemies. If it needs to go away, then that can be achieved with the mission leader simply going to the map, right clicking, then left clicking.

This is not complicated, at all. If you die once to an enemy that is inside your FMS, you or others have failed to defend it, and others may have failed to communicate the threat. If you died *more* than once, then you have failed to take it back. If you have died more than 3 times, you're either being stubborn, an idiot, or both, and you probably either haven't told the mission lead to pull it, or the mission lead is bad and you should use .takelead to do it yourself.

Edited by chaoswzkd

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is it possible to make the spawn points as sturdy and hard to take down as they are now from the front and easier to take down from inside or the back where players spawn?

This would make it so that if a tank far off saw the spawn he couldnt take it down at range unless he flanks it. And also if he is behind camping where players are spawning, make it so a few hundred rounds of MG or a couple HE rounds will take it down. So even if he is camping, its likely he'd accidentally kill the spawn. 

Also, i feel like 1 HE charge should take down a spawn if placed inside

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5 minutes ago, ghostrider said:

is it possible to make the spawn points as sturdy and hard to take down as they are now from the front and easier to take down from inside or the back where players spawn?

This would make it so that if a tank far off saw the spawn he couldnt take it down at range unless he flanks it. And also if he is behind camping where players are spawning, make it so a few hundred rounds of MG or a couple HE rounds will take it down. So even if he is camping, its likely he'd accidentally kill the spawn. 

Also, i feel like 1 HE charge should take down a spawn if placed inside

I think there might be some technical limitations preventing this. Maybe not. Good idea, though. Doesn't help if the enemy doesn't have a satchel, like an SMG or LMG.

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37 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

-

Stop spawning into an FMS that has an EI inside of it. Communicate to your mission lead, and to the people on the target, that it is camped. Get it removed. Use ".takelead" if you have to.

The responsibility of keeping your FMS defended is on YOU, not the enemy. If they get to the FMS, and you let them, their reward is shutting it down as a possible avenue of attack. Your punishment is losing that avenue of attack.

Making the FMS too flimsy denies the ability to appropriately defend it, especially from distant enemies. If it needs to go away, then that can be achieved with the mission leader simply going to the map, right clicking, then left clicking.

This is not complicated, at all. If you die once to an enemy that is inside your FMS, you or others have failed to defend it, and others may have failed to communicate the threat. If you died *more* than once, then you have failed to take it back. If you have died more than 3 times, you're either being stubborn, an idiot, or both, and you probably either haven't told the mission lead to pull it, or the mission lead is bad and you should use .takelead to do it yourself.

I spawned into it once. I do not keep spawning into it.  Stop making excuses, I'm tired of hearing them.  The system is broken, period.  I don't have much time to play the game, the time I do have I am not going to be guarding one of these.  So no, it is not up to me.  And as far as taking lead, or communicating the issue, fine, I can do that.  But try telling a new person how and what to do in order to get that done.  It's not happening.  It is broke, period.

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33 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

-Implement open spawn point that can't spawn hard counters, or even soft counters to types of units.

"Hey guys, so this is a new and improved spawn point. Keep in mind its limitations, though, and be sure to notify your mission lead to delete it if it's not working out!"

 

- Players then each individually spawn into a camped mobile spawn, say nothing, do it again until they drain supply, complain that the system is broken, leave.

 

This is why it's hard to have confidence in new players. This is basic FPS stuff.

Why do so many people in this community think that it's a good idea to place everything at the feet of some random ingame leader? I doubt if the biggest squad left can muster more than 20 vets on a good night. It's not feasible to verbally/textually train hundreds of Steam greentags up on all the mechanics of the game in the brief time that they're trying it. The squad leader with a chat box can only do so much. Of course Steam players are going to act stupidly because nearly all the information about how the game plays is outdated or nonexistent.

 

At any rate it's still bad design, and you can't fix bad game design and bad game balance with better communication especially if you do absolutely nothing to aid communication between players. Leaders can't even turn off their mission temporarily because CRS thinks that it knows better than every other MMO out there, and refuses to allow any private missions or other grouping. People are having to contact GMs to see if they can stop greentags from spawning pointlessly on old missions.

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FMS should be easier to destroy from the ground

FMS should take LESS time to place

Trucks need audio adjusted

It's that simple really:cool:

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1 hour ago, Pittpete said:

FMS should be easier to destroy from the ground

FMS should take LESS time to place

Trucks need audio adjusted

It's that simple really:cool:

Agreed.

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This seems like a no-win/no-win situation. Green tags have no sense of direction or where their immediate danger is coming from. Stand 10 ft away from one and shoot at him....not to kill and he just keeps going. They don't recognize the various audios needed to respond or survive. I've requested MSs be taken down and have removed mine if they got camped. I feel for these guys and feel kind of bad for shooting what I know is a green tag.  It is all well and good to want new players, and lots of new ones who stay and bring $$$$. But there needs to be some really objective and considered thought as to what happens to these people in a game like this that has such a hard and steep learning curve. Many of these people may never return. IMHO we don't have the squad capacity to absorb all the new people since the old squad system was decimated and especially with the Steam experience that overwhelmed everyone in the last few weeks. It's really quite a disturbing scenario all round.

zimm out

Edited by zimmer

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Anybody who defends the current state of FRU's fail's to recognize how negative of an experience it likely is for newbies to be insta killed in a game they're new to. The UI is clunky AF, I have used it for years and STILL fail to find missions I am looking for or to spawn at locations I know I should be able to. You can't blame the greenies for not knowing better. They're gonna just move on. Call of Duty has a better spawn system to allow newbs a better fighting chance than a camped fms in ww2ol. The death of a FRU should not be a drawn out and brigade-gutting experience; FRU's should be able to be destroyed and created more dynamically.

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But it's not always just the new players that keep spawning in ,sad to say. 

I have killed the same guy over and over out of an MS even at a FB we had well locked down. 

How do I know he was not new cause he was able to spawn every INF type in the list ,CSR told me so when I checked later.

In the FB situation there was not much he could do besides quit spawning. But it sure looked like he did not take lead in the FMS camp cause we blew it up.

Maybe have 3 or 4 exit spots at a FMS which would mean a bigger FMS . Or the simpler solution let a Truck set 2 or 3 FMS in a shorter time frame. And then let a INF player choose before they spawn in , which FMS to spawn in Alpha ,Beta ,Delta. 

So if one is camped they can fight the camp, and with 2 or 3 FMS around it be harder to camp them. 

But then they should be a little easier to take down. Just my thought.

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55 minutes ago, dre21 said:

But it's not always just the new players that keep spawning in ,sad to say. 

I have killed the same guy over and over out of an MS even at a FB we had well locked down. 

How do I know he was not new cause he was able to spawn every INF type in the list ,CSR told me so when I checked later.

In the FB situation there was not much he could do besides quit spawning. But it sure looked like he did not take lead in the FMS camp cause we blew it up.

Maybe have 3 or 4 exit spots at a FMS which would mean a bigger FMS . Or the simpler solution let a Truck set 2 or 3 FMS in a shorter time frame. And then let a INF player choose before they spawn in , which FMS to spawn in Alpha ,Beta ,Delta. 

So if one is camped they can fight the camp, and with 2 or 3 FMS around it be harder to camp them. 

But then they should be a little easier to take down. Just my thought.

Yes. I have been having that thought lately as well. Multiple spawns on the same mission would solve some problems. 

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2 hours ago, saronin said:

Yes. I have been having that thought lately as well. Multiple spawns on the same mission would solve some problems. 

Hmm... yes mb have a mission be able to set say 2 independent FMS... label them FMS1 and FMS2 and check the one you want to spawn from.

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31 minutes ago, stankyus said:

Hmm... yes mb have a mission be able to set say 2 independent FMS... label them FMS1 and FMS2 and check the one you want to spawn from.

I was thinking up to like five spawns or something and pick the one you want to spawn from the map.  The same could be done in town for all available spawns.  It would cut down on the need for so many missions and give new player the choice to stay on mission and choose not to spawn in to a camped FMS.

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14 hours ago, dre21 said:

But it's not always just the new players that keep spawning in ,sad to say. 

I have killed the same guy over and over out of an MS even at a FB we had well locked down. 

How do I know he was not new cause he was able to spawn every INF type in the list ,CSR told me so when I checked later.

In the FB situation there was not much he could do besides quit spawning. But it sure looked like he did not take lead in the FMS camp cause we blew it up.

Maybe have 3 or 4 exit spots at a FMS which would mean a bigger FMS . Or the simpler solution let a Truck set 2 or 3 FMS in a shorter time frame. And then let a INF player choose before they spawn in , which FMS to spawn in Alpha ,Beta ,Delta. 

So if one is camped they can fight the camp, and with 2 or 3 FMS around it be harder to camp them. 

But then they should be a little easier to take down. Just my thought.

Wouldn't that be kind of like the old MS moving by the mission leader as an inf??? If he died another could takelead and move the MS. I am not changing my mind about the MS system, but it did make the attacks much more fluid. Seems like every change made to the game just makes it more complicated. IMHO.

zimm out

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14 hours ago, dre21 said:

I have killed the same guy over and over out of an MS even at a FB we had well locked down. 

How do I know he was not new cause he was able to spawn every INF type in the list ,CSR told me so when I checked later.

i did this a lot, noobs are not the only ones trapped in this. me, entire squads, HC, ML's, and notable players all get caught in the camp

 

they keep spawning because there's only 1 FMS, or only 1 useful FMS (under truck audio range 1.3km)

they're getting camped cause tanks can't destroy them

 

been 9 months and CRS still hasn't noticed it... easy fixes that can be easily reverted if things don't improve.

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On 11/22/2017 at 9:46 PM, Pittpete said:

FMS should be easier to destroy from the ground

FMS should take LESS time to place

Trucks need audio adjusted

It's that simple really:cool:

Bingo.

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On 11/22/2017 at 2:46 PM, Pittpete said:

FMS should be easier to destroy from the ground

FMS should take LESS time to place

Trucks need audio adjusted

It's that simple really:cool:

It really is that simple.

 

There were so many things that should have been ironed out before a Steam launch; we all said it.

 

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56 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

It really is that simple.

 

There were so many things that should have been ironed out before a Steam launch; we all said it.

 

Years ago when the first map enlargement took place, many of the bugs plaguing the game hadn't been fixed. It just, IMHO, exacerbated the problems already there.  I've always maintained, as you have iterated, that things need fixed before any changes are made. A lot of the game additions, again IMHO, were just candy to placate the griping few as the player base suffered huge FPS problems that took years to get just partially right. So, yeah, fix it then expand it. The listed problems above are part of what needs fixing, the trucks are still over a decade needing audio repair.

zimm out

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On 11/25/2017 at 8:25 PM, zimmer said:

This seems like a no-win/no-win situation. Green tags have no sense of direction or where their immediate danger is coming from. Stand 10 ft away from one and shoot at him....not to kill and he just keeps going. They don't recognize the various audios needed to respond or survive. I've requested MSs be taken down and have removed mine if they got camped. I feel for these guys and feel kind of bad for shooting what I know is a green tag.  It is all well and good to want new players, and lots of new ones who stay and bring $$$$. But there needs to be some really objective and considered thought as to what happens to these people in a game like this that has such a hard and steep learning curve. Many of these people may never return. IMHO we don't have the squad capacity to absorb all the new people since the old squad system was decimated and especially with the Steam experience that overwhelmed everyone in the last few weeks. It's really quite a disturbing scenario all round.

zimm out

No Zimmer , he can only set a certain number. Let's say 2 , so he can set 2 and despawn or set one and go hide and once that 1st one is down reset 1 or 2.

In other words as long as the player in the Truck stays alive he can set a minimum of 2 MS till one or both get taken down then he can reset . But only if he stays a Truck . As soon as he decides to play another type then these 2 MS is all they can do till someone else decides to bring a Truck out and take over the role of MS setter.

Cause the MS is set by a Truck it's not remotely close to the ML Inf FRU that we used to have. 

No Truck can sneak up on a Tank like the ML INF could, also with the ML set FRU all u had to do take a Rifle out to the field Ninja set FRU behind tank despawn ,respawn as Sapper  and we'll u know the drill.

Also with the Truck set MS if the player decides to stay a Truck all he really does is keep an Attack alive, without being really able to do much besides keep setting FMS . But because he is a Truck the Audio aspect still plays a huge role not like with the stealth no sound INF FRU ( which in my opinion killed the Tank game here and it would be an horrible idea to even entertain an INF set FRU to make ever a comeback,  I think it would drive the rest of us Armor guys away. )

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32 minutes ago, zimmer said:

Years ago when the first map enlargement took place, many of the bugs plaguing the game hadn't been fixed. It just, IMHO, exacerbated the problems already there.  I've always maintained, as you have iterated, that things need fixed before any changes are made. A lot of the game additions, again IMHO, were just candy to placate the griping few as the player base suffered huge FPS problems that took years to get just partially right. So, yeah, fix it then expand it. The listed problems above are part of what needs fixing, the trucks are still over a decade needing audio repair.

zimm out

Honestly, the early versions were limited because there were no engines that could run this idea.

 

Now, there are... and if CRS had an influx of say... $2million, they'd be able to redo the whole thing on a great engine.

There'd still be bugs, but they wouldn't be trying to root them out in the spaghetti code nightmare we have now.

 

I don't know the answer to this. 

 

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