blkhwk8

1.36 Vital Questions

147 posts in this topic

My question- how does Allied Air/Naval supply work?  Totally up to AHC?  Limits?  Tied to who owns the town?

 

The last is likely to create scenarios where a town may be BEF in a sea of French or American towns and unable to be overstocked.

 

Secondary question- is making comments on the answers desired here, or in separate threads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question that comes to mind- assuming all pop-triggered AOs, will it be possible for an entirely defensive/underpop/no FB side to not have an AO?  

 

Will AOs automatically drop when local pop drops below the trigger point?

 

Will AO counts drop with overall pop, or just by local trigger? 

 

Can a side have more AOs with more people on the attack then an equally popped side more on defense?

 

Can a side have more AOs period because they are overpop and therefore can trigger more AOs?

Edited by Kilemall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What countermeasures will there be to stop deliberate misplacement of AOs by squads or players switching sides?

 

Eg A side needs Town X to complete a cut. A squad or group of players swap sides and ensure the next AO is town Y

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, david01 said:

Do you know the coming spawn list and rules of the town garrisons and HC brigades?

No David I don't.  But I have been involved in this process as much as a non-Rat could be.  I have had discussions with CRS at length about 1.36.  One of the key criteria (if not THE key criteria) for 1.36 was to have a system where HC were not required to be online 24/7, particularly to babysit movable brigades.  Xoom and I went back and forth on this topic a great deal, and it always came down to the question, "Does this proposal require 24/7 HC coverage?"  That was always at the heart of his design philosophy.  So even though I don't know the details, I know for a fact that Xoom would not go in this direction if it required 24/7 HC coverage.  

 

In fact, if you go back to the original 1.36 monster thread where the hybrid proposal was introduced, you'll notice the verbiage I used in my final proposal is almost identical to the verbiage that CRS is using to sell the hybrid system.  

 

3 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Secondary question- is making comments on the answers desired here, or in separate threads?

It would be a heck of a lot cleaner if questions were left in this thread and discussions were relegated to a separate, stickied discussion thread.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding proximity/population AOs...

 

Will they be only to front or the next rear town? 

If they are activated on a town three town back when say paras load up and land, it'd be a softcap, right?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

If they are activated on a town three town back when say paras load up and land, it'd be a softcap, right?

I would doubt it, but id love to have that mechanic later, but you can't cap per se, you can not own it, only disconnect the supply link by maintaining hold of the depot.
There's be no respawning obviously

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to thinking, JWBS along with no HC and funky fallbacks mess the game up.

But, in regards to JWBS, it seems the biggest problem is getting supply in so fast.

Why is that?  Because units move 10km in 2 minutes... totally unrealistic.

 

*** Todays move systems moves in 2 minutes; then waits for 60 minutes.... This is backwards I think !

Why doesn't the move take 60 minutes, then ready to move again in 2 minutes?

No more instant flag moves.  You move a flag and just like in real life, an hour later it arrives - not 2 minutes.

 

What if we just reverse the move times?  Instead of 2 min to move; 1 hour to wait, we go 2 min to wait, and 1 hour to move?

 

If you couple that with removing the insane move restrictions (let all flags free move - no sister/HQ dependency) and

change fallbacks to just go E or W based on nation, and

restrict inter division stacking (1pz can only stack w/no other division, only itself).

Then problems solved with flag management?

 

Toss in HQ may not move to frontline, one more flag (recon battalion per division) and

the ability to overstock between any flag of same division only, and you've almost replicated town supply, but kept the movable flags.

 

This solves nearly every issue with our current flag system. (but still need flag for each squad)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delems, this can be fixed with the trickle settings of no supply first 15 minutes, then the rest of the supply arriving over 2 hours, and not on the 'heaviest stuff arrives ASAP' setting but the spread out setting where if there was one Tiger/Matty they would show up at the one hour mark.

 

That's more like an entire brigade strung out on a road and arriving in ones and twos.  And if it is moved again well the tickets reset all over and it's like the brigade is on a hasty road movement.

 

Best part- could be  done next campaign, just trickle settings, no coding required.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t believe CRS said anything about AOs going away. They are necessary to funnel the population into battle. Players should have the ability to step up temporarily to place AOs if HC are not online  

The moveable flags should provide a nice bump to spice things up a bit. There shouldn’t be so much supply running around the map with them that their manning is absolutely critical at all times. 

Are we looking at some sort of population based AO?  Has that been in some update that I have missed?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, saronin said:

Are we looking at some sort of population based AO?  Has that been in some update that I have missed?

Think as it read it would work like this

 

OMGZRZ!! Noooo HC ON!!!

Private saronin rallies the troops and gets them to follow him to dinant and set up for an attack
because private saronin has gotten x percent of the only troops to follow him, system has given him an AO to mount his attack with.
(within the limits of available AO's of course)

 

Perhaps he should get a promotion :)
In other words, squads and players can lead in the field.
HC does not have to micromanage every aspect of the overall strategy, and can themselves get back to leading from the field
rather than staring at the map for hours on end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Think as it read it would work like this

 

OMGZRZ!! Noooo HC ON!!!

Private saronin rallies the troops and gets them to follow him to dinant and set up for an attack
because private saronin has gotten x percent of the only troops to follow him, system has given him an AO to mount his attack with.
(within the limits of available AO's of course)

 

 

He's just going to abuse this feature to steal peoples' backpacks when they kit out.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** Delems, this can be fixed with the trickle settings of no supply first 15 minutes

Hmm, 10 km in 15 min?  Still to fast.

How about trickle starts 1 hour after move and leave the rate at the current every 2 minutes?  Now that might work.

I'd go for that, a shim, but worth trying; and as you say, think they could change those numbers for next map as a trial.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Killemal if you have questions from the answers post them here and I will work to get an answer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only question / statement is that I would hope that garrisons do not contain top tiered equipment. 

I reallllly hope that garrisons would stay one tier behind the current RDP.

The bad part about TBS centered around the ability to massively overstock top tiered equipment.  My idea armor wise would be that garrisons should look like.

T-0;

R-35, Pan, H39

A13, Vickers

38T, Pz2, 232.... mb a few PZFs.

 

T1: Added

S35, B1

Matty

PZF, StugB, P4D

 

T2: Added (due to such a wide gap in T1-T2 RDP capabilities)

Stu, and light on S75s and M10s

More Matties, Cru2, and light on Cru3 CH3s

PZH, and light on StugGs and P4Gs.

 

T3: Added in majority numbers

M10, S75

Cru3 and CH3

StugGs and P4Gs

 

What I do not want to see is a massive top tier equipment and garrison overstocking that becomes more powerful than the Brigades in the hybrid system. I would want to see rare equipment be rare.  Lets avoid Matty Maps and Tiger Maps.

 

In light of seeing that garrisons can initiate AOs, it would be very fun especially in T0 to have garrison fights with H39s and 38ts.. a wienie tank battle and OMG can you imagine 50+ H39s or 38t armor columns to fight against 50+ other wienie tanks.  That sounds very appealing to me.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** My only question / statement is that I would hope that garrisons do not contain top tiered equipment. 

Interesting idea, seems to have merit.

I do wonder something though, let's say towns get no IVD tier 0 as you noted.  But, could they set the town supply to 0 IVD - but have the capacity 2?  So if one wanted to drive and over stock a better tank they could?
Same for the Zees, right now no 232 or IIC.  But, I'd like to TT in a couple 232, then RTB to the flag in town - and have them STAY there to be spawned again.  So in Zees, the 232 would be set to 0, but have a capacity of 3, so one COULD get some 232 on the islands and have them stay when you RTB.  Make sense?

 

The big question to me, is which way is the game leaning?  Town supply with flag supplement;  or flag supply with town supplement?

Or, about even supply town to flag?

Makes all the difference how the map plays I think.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, delems said:

The big question to me, is which way is the game leaning?  Town supply with flag supplement;  or flag supply with town supplement?

Or, about even supply town to flag?

Makes all the difference how the map plays I think.

No one has explained how the people that pay for the virtual command staff experience, and want to determine ingame battles by making a flag movement are going to be reconciled with the rest of the playerbase that wants to have battles determined by regular players. It's just stated that CRS is going to get the best of both worlds with no problems. But in a hybrid system flags are either going to be so weak that they won't satisfy and be worth the effort to maintain them, or they'll be strong enough that proper flag movements will still be the primary factor. Especially since it's easy to claim:

 

"Oh, under the hybrid system HC isn't needed 24/7. You have some supplies in every town to defend :p"

 

For instance if there's no overstock, or overstock limited to 100% or some other measly number, and no high-tier equipment in garrisons. There won't be people convoying units from 3-4 towns back, or flying from rear AFs and reinforcing the frontline. In that case there won't be any new gameplay and a garrison will just be a little punching bag for the side with better HC. Which is obviously what some people want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, delems said:

The big question to me, is which way is the game leaning?  Town supply with flag supplement;  or flag supply with town supplement?

Or, about even supply town to flag?

Makes all the difference how the map plays I think.

The movable brigades have to be supplemental, or else the system requires 24/7 HC coverage.  If the flags have too much supply, we are no better off than what we have right now.  

 

The good thing about this approach though is if the hybrid fails to deliver good results, the groundwork will already be laid for a full-bore town supply system.  All they would need to do is prevent the movable brigades from being deployed and adjust the town supply numbers.  

 

I fully expect good results, however.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

In regard to the new system, I do not think any of the vital questions about where it all leans can be answered yet. Implementation and balancing will have to be considered and changed/tweaked in order to strike some sort of balance. That being said, and it's easy to say things after the fact/campaign etc., Overstocking, Garrison Weight and Flag Weight will have to be managed. In addition, let's say that things are weighted that flags do have a big impact [Although that would be determined by the current condition of the map, population, skill of population or CONTEXT], We could still have a Hybrid HC system where when the system detects that no HC is on there are mechanisms that allow the player base to make do.

I'm not following an attitude that states, which is easy to say, @david01 : "It's just stated that CRS is going to get the best of both worlds with no problems." I do not think anyone anticipates any transition to be so smooth that there are no problems. This is one of the fundamental natures of change, it causes problems with existing conditions and attitudes and expectations. Nor is @david01  "Oh, under the hybrid system HC isn't needed 24/7. You have some supplies in every town to defend :p" any kind of actual portrayal of CRS's attitude or conceptual mindset.

@david01" Which is obviously what some people want. " I'm not even sure how credible this statement is other than lot's of people want lot's of different things.

My question is, Do you have a credible and respectful question?

S!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, delems said:

*** My only question / statement is that I would hope that garrisons do not contain top tiered equipment. 

Interesting idea, seems to have merit.

I do wonder something though, let's say towns get no IVD tier 0 as you noted.  But, could they set the town supply to 0 IVD - but have the capacity 2?  So if one wanted to drive and over stock a better tank they could?
Same for the Zees, right now no 232 or IIC.  But, I'd like to TT in a couple 232, then RTB to the flag in town - and have them STAY there to be spawned again.  So in Zees, the 232 would be set to 0, but have a capacity of 3, so one COULD get some 232 on the islands and have them stay when you RTB.  Make sense?

 

The big question to me, is which way is the game leaning?  Town supply with flag supplement;  or flag supply with town supplement?

Or, about even supply town to flag?

Makes all the difference how the map plays I think.

 

Well, I think you bring up a great question (s).  If I had it my way.

1. I do not think the supply supplement should be one way but both ways.

2. I would hope that you could supply an uberweapon to a garrison.  Let me make a few points about this.

Stocking a 4D into a garrison takes manual effort - the garrison would not have a resupply ticket for the 4D once the 4D is gone.  To further that point - I don't want to see garrisons as mini-factories for uber weapons. Lets keep the uber weapons rare. Second point - I don't want to see garrisons easily becoming vastly superior to the brigade system portion of the hybrid. Not limiting tiered weapons and uber weapons and we might as well just drop the brigade system simply because you can potentially reverse the importance of the brigades as being a hammer.  If you can potentially with ease start overstocking your rear supply with uber weapons from other rear garrisons you can amass a garrison with way more firepower than the front line brigade.

 

However if you start manually stocking brigade armor into a garrison you have created a risk to the brigade for a period of time and it takes effort but with the risk there should be a reward.

 

3. Should there be a limit to overstock the brigade to the garrison, you said a limit like 2 for the 4D.  TBH, I am not sure. With some items I would think yes... mb my bias shows a bit in this regard but I might put a limit on RPATS overstock all over regardless, and the uber weapons on a tier by tier basis - item by item.

For instance in T-0 I would limit overstocking garrisons with the Matty, StugB and B1. However I am not so sure the 4D and PzF fall into that category as an uberweapon for T-0... but perhaps you are correct that there might need a emphasis to restrict the 4D, PzF, S35 also... MB even keeping the WC15 and Pz1Jr and even allowing a few 251's into T-0 in Brigades only as they are unique and only shared by 2 out of the 3 factions on the map.  Again I am not sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great commentary everyone, which might be better facilitated in another post. I'm just trying to get anQ&A here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, blkhwk8 said:

Great commentary everyone, which might be better facilitated in another post. I'm just trying to get anQ&A here. 

Sorry did not mean to hijack the thread - but I think its important to have the forum to put forth the idea in a place I know is being looked at.  The whole commentary in fact is full questions that should be addressed.  Overstock and TBS had some great attributes.. however those very attributes also created some very very unbalanced and bad gameplay.  Which I addressed in a way that could satisfy what I see as some very potential ways to screw up what CRS is doing with the hybrid system. It also places a solution that is a compromise for both the Brigade and TBS camps. Divisions would still be the hammer without being overshadowed by the TBS portion, and the TBS portion would still provide a way for overstocking and a end to out of control softcapping.  I think the proposal would be a question of "CRS, what do you think?"  and "Am I off my rocker with the proposal?" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, blkhwk8 said:

Crs is monitoring this page too.

No we're not... *runs*

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, I think it needs to be 'Town supply with flag supplement',

Otherwise we just have our current flag system with a few troops in all towns.

Then the question becomes, what ratio?

If each 1 AB town gets like 500 troops, and 2 AB maybe 625 and 3 AB 750; what should a flag get?   (just using infantry numbers atm)

Maybe 125?  So they even up a 1 AB vrs 2 AB town, or 250 so they with garrison have more (750 to 625) than a 2 AB town?

 

It also depends on how many flags there are, and if those flags can stack with each other.

Should be fun the first few hybrid maps as they try and find a good balance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.