Ltarflak

spaa

44 posts in this topic

Being an AA guy myself, I'm thankful to get any addition to the game in the means of AA.  That being said,  I totally understand why this always becomes a heated topic at times and you get arguments on both sides of the fence.

However,  the fact still remains,  for anyone that has played this game of any amount of time are extremely familiar with two phrases:

1. "hey so & so"   you've got a firebug!   

and 

2. Here we go again, "it's Air Quake"  :(

Not once have I heard the term  "Oh here we go again,  it's Flak Quake"    I  realize from time to time one side or the other camps an AF with some  AA guns, but compared to DB7's , Hurri's, Spits and Havoc's completely shutting down and AB or FB with little to no worry about being shot down is insane.  

Now maybe with the addition of mobile AA, it might help alleviate the problem "some"  but after playing WW2 online for yrs and another title similar to WW2 Online for years, the EA have ALL the advantage.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2017 at 8:50 PM, Ltarflak said:

I noticed the email I got regarding the SPAA and I think some of the things said in the article was incorrect. first,the line: "these weapon platforms are going to have a BIG impact on the game for Pilots and AA gunners" is false...if you want to have a big impact on the gunners and pilots add multi barrel AA. the more lead you can throw out into the sky the better change you have of hitting a plane, they get to shoot at us with 6-12 barrels, cannons AND bombs...if you add multi barred stuff *cough *cough quad 20's and duel 37mm...you can even it out some because the quad 20's could compensate for 4 ,20 mil gunners and the dual 37mm AA could compensate for 2... If you want to make a difference for WW2 online for AA gunners and pilots add multi barrel AA  (and of course whirbelwind and ostwind).  

Fine no SPAAG until a later tier, like Tier 3
Per request of @Ltarflak cause he didn't like having a T0  SPAAG to start with.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Zebbeee said:

The reason classical AA stay close to the AB/FB spawns is because of the lower probability to be sniped. I rarely see an AA spawn from a depot or a FMS for that same reason.

Here’s what I do: never or very rarely spawn AA in AB unless perimeter is secure. Spawn Cmle 38 from (noncamped) depot, FB or FMS and push quickly away opposite to main battle, at least 500 m, to secure the perimeter. 

Ltar - enough already. This is an unpaid volunteer crew delivering. What seems easy, isn’t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at this as a start. No question we need better AA guns. They are the only non tiered weapon on the game. It will be nice when they can add multiple barrels to the equation but at least they are doing something to improve the situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, saronin said:

I look at this as a start. No question we need better AA guns. They are the only non tiered weapon on the game. It will be nice when they can add multiple barrels to the equation but at least they are doing something to improve the situation. 

At that point, they will be Tiered weapons though, but we'd still get to have what we do now throughout.

Personally a bofors i dont have to push will be awesome.
I might suck at using it as AA but you'd be surprised what you can do with one VS armor at 2750 meters, if you can just get it in position (in something less than an hours worth of pushing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** Spawn Cmle 38 from (noncamped) depot, FB or FMS and push quickly away 

Ya, we'd do that too, except the Flak 30s 0.25 KD is worthless; while the allied light AA has a 0.75 KD.

I'd spawn light AA on allied side too - is worthless for axis to try.

The mattie has a better AA KD than our Flak 30, what does that tell you ?

 

Need the Flak 38 in game, and not even sure that will make up the difference.

 

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s not Red vs Blue. The difference in weight and velocity between Ca mle 38 and Flak 30 shells is real, and modelled. 

Sure, bring in moar. All for it.

Recall though that for many moons the Allies had no AA gun at all, not even a repurposed one ;) whereas the Axis basked in joy over their new capability ;);) (water long since flowed on, no grudges held)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, delems said:

except the Flak 30s 0.25 KD is worthless; while the allied light AA has a 0.75 KD.

Is that exclusively VS AC?
Because for practical purposes, the numbers are kind of pointless if we lump together VS infantry, tanks, atg's other AA/

Mind you i am not saying it is or isn't, i know for a fact the axis 20mm gun IS a lighter weapon than the hotchkiss 25mm
and a small weapon that relies heavily on HE probably does not currently perform up to par (but may very well do so post audit?) so 5 extra MM and however many grams of explosive may give more difference than it normally would.

I'm just saying, for us to truly know what we are looking at, we'd probably have to look at both VS AC only and filter all else out.
Maybe you already did that?

This is T0, it has the longest history

flak30 VS blen MK I                                                                                                 DEATHS BY                                                                                                         K/D           

96,012 51,541 1.86

VS BEF blen MK IV

51,020 40,822 1.25

VS FR blem MK IV

34,888 25,882 1.35

VS H75

61,507 73,724 0.83

VS HURI MK I

87,103 71,005 1.23

 

VS SPIT MKI

26,906 35,068 0.77

VS D.520

20,567 21,770 0.94

VS DB7

21,891 90,734 0.24

VS HAVOC

18,970 72,571 0.26

 

 

 


FR CAMle 38 VS Stuka

 

126,501 166,796 0.76
VS BF110C

 

66,821 38,800 1.72
VS BF109E1

 

9,497 2,975 3.19

VS HE111

17,965 31,524 0.57




BEF CAMle38 VS Stuka

96,626 139,574 0.69

VS BF110C

60,081 38,987 1.54

VS BF109E1

4,699 1,419 3.31

 

VS HE111

10,511 18,506 0.57

 


I havent added those up

Now as a weapon class (which includes the bofors and includes kills/deaths on/from anything and is this campaign ONLY)
Dont know if this means terribly much
 

Allies United Kingdom Anti-Aircraft Artillery 405 754 0.54 Dec 10 15:45
Allies France Anti-Aircraft Artillery 602 1,171 0.51 Dec 10 15:50
Axis Germany Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1,372 1,785 0.77 Dec 10 15:35

 

 

49 minutes ago, delems said:

Need the Flak 38 in game, and not even sure that will make up the difference.

All things considered?
My money says no.
A flakvierling quad, perhaps, a little, because you can engage in spray N pray.
Pick an intersection point and drown it in lead. 
But the downside is you are reloading the damned thing every 5 or 6 seconds, swapping out 4 mags.
And its effective range is no more than a flak 30 :( 

Fun? YES, add it eventually YEA!
Light up a depot? Oh hell yea
Is it the AA messiah? No, i don't think so myself, especially if they work it out for bombers to go UP where they belong rather than 600m off the desk

No, i doubt it will be the FoeHammer, it has a bit higher ROF, but it also carries the same ammo capacity.
And all these light AA carry what in hindsight we would consider a ridiculously small per mag capacity, I am sure any of us teleported to 1930 would be telling them Hell no, 1000 round belts in loose box you fools! Make it so!

But anyways, it would in essence still be a flak30 that goes into reload cycle faster, MAY score an extra hit or two, maybe, but does not hit any harder or better or farther.
I am afraid it wont be the Grail that some might think.

Now that being said, there is an ammo and HE explosive audit going on that we have not seen yet.
It maybe could be of significant benefit to the Flak30 and anything else firing 20mm HE ammo type (Minengeschoß in the 109s etc too!)
That said the 20mm just was never really much of a dragon slayer, even in quad form, you'd do more damage with a single 37mm. 

Even if SPAA borrows a bofors exterior model for a time (could be a twinkie for all i care), i think the 37mm gun is where the real killing power is going to be.
Its got the reach and the velocity and a hell of a lot more hitting power.
In my mind, it's like this...

PZIIc is a fun but anemic little pup.
If i put 2 cannons on it or even 4 on it or even shoot faster at the end of the day, i still got the same, slightly cooler, anemic pup.
I gotta get a PZ38T if i want to punch harder farther.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at light AA vrs bombers;  is 0.25 to 0.75;  and mattie is a better AA gun than the flak 30.

db7, havoc, 111, stuka.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, delems said:

Look at light AA vrs bombers;  is 0.25 to 0.75;  and mattie is a better AA gun than the flak 30.

db7, havoc, 111, stuka.

 

VS DB7/Havoc does kind of suck yes, VS blens is kind of good.

Stats are also sometimes hard to make sense of
If you look at the CAMle38 VS BF109s you would think that there is a conga line of T0 109 pilots flying at econo, min throttle 50m off the deck headed directly to a allied light AA gunners.
 

Matilda II VS HE-111 and JU87

259 659 0.39

 

5,498 13,565 0.41

I'd suspect, but could be wrong, more camping / ground kills more than ground to air kills here though.
It averages to 0.40 K/D though, which yes, is better than 0.25

Though the flak 30 appears to be the bane of airborne riflemen everywhere

2,499 658 3.8

The French can't hit an airborne troop to save their buttocks, they have 0 nada, none
The brits have been learning from the axis :) 

1,161 395 2.94

 

 


So while taking stats with a handful of salt
I'd wager the fault is not really in the FlaK 30

FlaK 28 40MM VS DB7 Historic

 

64,611 192,132 0.34

FlaK 28 40MM VS HAVOC Historic

60,824 147,825 0.41

DB7/Havoc just heavily armored bastages.
Or they are flakey.
I'll concede you on something being flakey, cause i've shot them.
And i'm sure all those kills are probably Mozislak alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

light AAA is plagued with "technical kills", where they get a few hits with no noticeable effect, and only kill after the plane lands and RTB's. the .50's and 15mm are the same.

anything less than 40mm would be very unsatisfying.

 

calculate throw weight's and accuracy all you want, the light AAA's in-game are not fun units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't used an axis a for quite a while, have they fixed the barrel climb , that alone made em far inferior to the allied model

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Haven't used an axis a for quite a while, have they fixed the barrel climb , that alone made em far inferior to the allied model

Nope, they're still terrible at holding a target in sights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, bmbm said:

It’s not Red vs Blue. The difference in weight and velocity between Ca mle 38 and Flak 30 shells is real, and modelled. 

Sure, bring in moar. All for it.

Recall though that for many moons the Allies had no AA gun at all, not even a repurposed one ;) whereas the Axis basked in joy over their new capability ;);) (water long since flowed on, no grudges held)

And you got the S35 in that patch too ;).  At the time I don’t remember anyone complaining. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's because S35's don't fly ;) The gripe then fwiw was that new weapon classes should never be released to just one side. They (old CRS) learned that the hard way ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, bmbm said:

That's because S35's don't fly ;) The gripe then fwiw was that new weapon classes should never be released to just one side. They (old CRS) learned that the hard way ;) 

Given that the 109 pretty much dominated the skies at the time, I don't think anyone noticed.  The old CRS did have more than a few growing pains in that area. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bmbm said:

That's because S35's don't fly ;) The gripe then fwiw was that new weapon classes should never be released to just one side. They (old CRS) learned that the hard way ;) 

Don't they?

Ac_uk_havoc.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless - I see no reason why they cannot augment some flak38s into the game - just give them a solid HE load out.  I just like the idea of having more AA variety in the game period.  Lets get some 37mm AA guns to boot.. Some Polstens etc, quad flak and heavy MG AA.  Even some mg type.. I have seen some quad mounted MG34s... be cool to have some dual Vickers mounts. So we have short range, light AA, medium AA variety.  This game is on the verge of being very deadly - lets add to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.