delems

Screwed again.

51 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, david01 said:

Does anyone see a gameplay problem with a spitfire IIb being a better ground support aircraft than a stuka?

Does anyone actually get that it's a bug that's going to be addressed? 

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20 hours ago, delems said:

Simply allow no ea to remove FMS.

Not so simple actually. 

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19 hours ago, david01 said:

You guys got to get it through your heads that lower game activity on your server does not make a more appealing game or more subs.

really?  Had no idea.

Quote

If you're a pilot and playing for the map there's no reason not to immediately jettision/suicide in to a FMS because a bomber is worth far less than a good spawn.

I do agree - personally I'd love to see every player who suicides an aircraft barred from spawning another for 24 hours.   The reality however is that there is a segment of the player population who simply don't care about their aircraft and will either bomb and de-spawn, or suicide their aircraft rather than RTB.  

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44 minutes ago, B2K said:

there's no reason not to immediately jettision/suicide in to a FMS

wonder if jettison could be change to something like the torpedo drop is
Must be flying level, must be above XXXm altitude?

I'm no fan of Kamikaze at all

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9 hours ago, OldZeke said:

Does anyone actually get that it's a bug that's going to be addressed? 

it's a bug involving the spit, bit skeptical it'll ever be fixed.

 

9 hours ago, B2K said:

really?  Had no idea.

not sure if your joking or being pretentious like CRS's attitude to KB&M flying

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I suggest, next time, that the squad of 18 build a few atg pits in the area of the FMS so the FMS is not so obvious from the air.  The's one reason they were designed as they are.

I agree that the axis 20mm aaa needs an major overhaul.  It is ridiculously difficult to sight and hit stuff, due in large part to the lack of 2 x zoom and the rising barrel as you fire.

The Rats could design the FMS with walls/roof of different 'armor' thickness, with the roof being several time more bomb resistant that the walls.  That way 4 satchels on the walls would still work and the roof could resist a bomb or to to make it more survivable.  I think taking away the ability of air to destroy an FMS should not implemented at all.

I also the think the FMS should be designed with more bushes around the perimeter to hide the spawn point better and help protect it from camping, and I would love to see engineer's have bush PPO' to simulate using vegetation to hide stuff.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GrAnit said:

The Rats could design the FMS with walls/roof of different 'armor' thickness, with the roof being several time more bomb resistant that the walls.  That way 4 satchels on the walls would still work and the roof could resist a bomb or to to make it more survivable.  I think taking away the ability of air to destroy an FMS should not implemented at all.

I also the think the FMS should be designed with more bushes around the perimeter to hide the spawn point better and help protect it from camping, and I would love to see engineer's have bush PPO' to simulate using vegetation to hide stuff.

 

 

1).  Hardening the roof of the FMS is an interesting idea.

2).  Giving players the ability to camoflouge the FMS would be nice too, but I think creating a PPO that allows players to build “bushes” could get abused too: players would probably build hundreds of bushes everywhere.  I could even imagine people building them in open fields under fire.  It would not be too realistic.  And our computer’s frame rates might take a hit too,  I don’t know exactly how the terrain engine works and impacts our pc’s resouces, but if these  objects were built everywhere there might be an impact.  There might be a good way to implement a bush-type ppo but it would probably need to have limits on its placement too.

 

Edited by krazydog

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1. Hardening the FMS to be able to be able to take a couple of bomb hits before going down should be looked at.

2. A bush type PPO for camo is interesting, but needs limits, say 1 per Engineer, and it stays only as long as the Engineer is spawned in.

3.Suiciding an Aircraft is understandable when it is the only reliable way to take out a tank. Hopefully the HE audit will take care of this.

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11 hours ago, major0noob said:

it's a bug involving the spit, bit skeptical it'll ever be fixed.

 

 

It's a bug involving all aircraft 20mm and yes it will get fixed. I'm a bit skeptical that anything done would be enough to cure some folks misconceived perceptions though.

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been almost 10 months now... HEAT and tank-HE fix was out in days

even the sandbags were changed quickly

Edited by major0noob

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Let's give the Bombers more targets ( like AF)  AF gets bombed the spawn count of available planes goes down.

We solve a few issues , Planes will strafe less FMS cause they will be busy killing Bombers from destroying the AF , and Bombers will be busy Bombing AF and not FMS . 

We have the tools ,CRS just needs to look at the big picture and open up more stuff for the Bombers and Fighters to do then just harass the ground troops.

I called for destoyable Train stations by Bombers which will affect the RDP cycle , called for Destroyable AF which will solve the above issues .

I called for Mobil AF so the pilots don't have so far to fly and get into action faster , which opens up new aspects of the game , called AFFMS ( posted in suggestion section)

There are so many options but all players call for is ,,Ban players that do this or that cause they can't protect their FMS from whatever thread arises .

The possibilities are endless , calling for CRS to ban or nerf stuff is the wrong option in my opinion. Expand not roll back and put more limitations on the players.

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2 hours ago, derfflingr said:

1. Hardening the FMS to be able to be able to take a couple of bomb hits before going down should be looked at.

It already takes more than 1 bomb as it is now.

29 minutes ago, major0noob said:

been almost 10 months now

It probably isn't nearly as simple.
What does the axis light tank PZII c shoot?
Cant just blindly block it or axis wind up being the only guys who have a tank that can not do any damage to an FM while french R35s happily pound them to eventual ruin.

3 hours ago, krazydog said:

Hardening the roof of the FMS is an interesting idea.

They just told us how the FMs works

They take a fixed number of joules damage from a given object type
They are coded special like that.
They take X joules from a bomb hit be it 40lbs or 250kg or satchel, they take Y joules from a tank HE shell, regardless if 20mm or 88mm, and 0 from any size AP 8mm to 76mm or grenades (unsure on rpat but assuming 0 for the class)
The damage is cumulative too it adds up, one guy gets one satchel off, then later a tank lobs 15 HE into it, then a plane rolls by and hits it with a bomb, it all adds up, eventually FM goes poof.

It doesnt have top armor value and sides armor value etc, you either hit it or you dont, if you hit it it takes a fixed amount of damage based on what you hit it with.

So if they buff it up, its an across the board effect, now you need 17 engineers :( 

 

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1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

It already takes more than 1 bomb as it is now.

It probably isn't nearly as simple.
What does the axis light tank PZII c shoot?
Cant just blindly block it or axis wind up being the only guys who have a tank that can not do any damage to an FM while french R35s happily pound them to eventual ruin.

They just told us how the FMs works

They take a fixed number of joules damage from a given object type
They are coded special like that.
They take X joules from a bomb hit be it 40lbs or 250kg or satchel, they take Y joules from a tank HE shell, regardless if 20mm or 88mm, and 0 from any size AP 8mm to 76mm or grenades (unsure on rpat but assuming 0 for the class)
The damage is cumulative too it adds up, one guy gets one satchel off, then later a tank lobs 15 HE into it, then a plane rolls by and hits it with a bomb, it all adds up, eventually FM goes poof.

It doesnt have top armor value and sides armor value etc, you either hit it or you dont, if you hit it it takes a fixed amount of damage based on what you hit it with.

So if they buff it up, its an across the board effect, now you need 17 engineers :( 

 

But armor has strong sides and weak spots.  Maybe thete is a way to change ithe FMS damage model.  No law that says that the way the FMS takes damage now has to be the way the FMS takes damage in the future.

But if the Rats don’t have the technical ability to change the way the FMS can take damage, then I agree it would be a bad thing to change the FMS so it requires 17 engineers to destroy a FMS.  That would have negative gameplay consequences for the underpop side.

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1 hour ago, krazydog said:

But armor has strong sides and weak spots.

This is true but we penetrate armor to hurt stuff inside.
We can penetrate it repeatedly to no effect if we hit nothing.
(shoot a panhard ot 232 or DAC with an ATR in empty spaces, nothing happens)


An FM or a building or an FB we are simply applying damage to the structure itself over all.
It doesnt have a juicy center so to speak, nor do HE satchels penetrate to get to one.

HE also doesnt behave like a bullet, lets say i hit the ground 1 inch away with an SC250, a good part of that HE blast is still going to hit the side of the FM even though technically i missed, Which may wind up blowing easier than before?

At least what we have now, it takes X
dont care if you hit it on the top, sides, get a submarine and hit it from the bottom, or slingshot a bomb right through the door, it takes X, dont make X then FM stays alive.

I think perhaps we expect more of the FM that it is meant to be.
It's an automatic truck ride basically.
Whether its actually a forward ZOC or fortified forward position etc, that part is up to us, we can make it those things if we want, or not.
Heck the old MS went down with a hand grenade.

For anyone who played this game at or near the beginning, it's something we never had, and we had large battles with infantry back then, huge even.
We would ride in on the tanks, we would ride in on the trucks that were constantly making runs in from the FBs and yea sometimes we did the BOB thing and hoofed it in on foot sometimes meeting EI hoofing it out on foot.
We got MSP/FRU/FMs to help move us up without someone stuck running the truck all night, not really to be a mini FB or AB like hardened structure.
When we ran trucks, when we did not secure the DZ it was dead drops, the FM is not so different really?

1 hour ago, krazydog said:

But if the Rats don’t have the technical ability to change the way the FMS can take damage

Id think that is more a case of totally change what the FM is rather than how
Trucks and planes and tanks etc are complex things with lots of parts, buildings and PPOs and FBs and Bridges and FMs
appear to all work the same, much simpler objects with no parts, just a max damage value it can take and some rules on what can apply damage and how much.

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Wrong, Merlin.

 

If you drop bombs that don't actually hit at least a sliver of the FMS footprint, no damage is added.

We tested them when they were implemented with HE111s, and found that even if the bombs hit the ground an inch away, it took four direct hits to being it down.

Ask Suppo. He and I conducted these tests with Stukas and 111s.

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25 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

Wrong, Merlin.

 

If you drop bombs that don't actually hit at least a sliver of the FMS footprint, no damage is added.

We tested them when they were implemented with HE111s, and found that even if the bombs hit the ground an inch away, it took four direct hits to being it down.

Ask Suppo. He and I conducted these tests with Stukas and 111s.

Ugg, I thought this was common knowledge.  YES you have to actually hit the FMS with the bomb.  Its the same with the Havoc and DB7, H2C (albeit why do that if you have 4 hispanos) and the Bell.  I promise you that you can drop all day long on a FMS and it will stay up as long as you are not hitting it.  Its not easy to precision bomb with the db or havoc and missing by 10' is as good as a mile.  Was not so long ago when Delems and Ltartflak or however you spell his name where destroying my DB7s with the flak30s - yes flak30s,  it took me I think 6 sorties before I actually dropped their FMS. However to be fair.. the need for precision bombing on the FMS has really helped my precision bombing game in the DB7 and Havoc so much so that I dropped 2 FMS for the first time this map.. That's all 8 bombs on target.  That is a huge step for me. Usually it takes most of them and sometimes a second trip.

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I might add that upping the damage threshold for the PPO bunker and dragons teeth might help. Fortifying your FMS for an hour can be wiped out by single stuka in seconds or DB7 leaving all that time wasted.

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The real issue is there is just far too many aircraft in game, and axis has terrible AA defense against fighter allied bombers.

Ever seen db7 fly and a 111?  The db7 is easily twice as fast as it.

Cut the bombers from 200 to maybe 50.  See how that goes.

Make bombers mean something - make them get attritted;  Same for destroyers - rediculuse with 100 in game;  make it 36 (3,3,3,3,12,12).

That or axis AA has to become much better (with no increase to allied AA); axis light AA is already 3x worse than allies.

And PPOs should not all disappear within 100m of one bomb hit- that silly too.  What the point of a PPO for cover, if it gone by first air bomb?

The allied air in game is ridiculously over powered; it needs to be fixed.

 

Edited by delems
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On 12/27/2017 at 11:04 AM, stankyus said:

Ugg, I thought this was common knowledge.  YES you have to actually hit the FMS with the bomb.  Its the same with the Havoc and DB7, H2C (albeit why do that if you have 4 hispanos) and the Bell.  I promise you that you can drop all day long on a FMS and it will stay up as long as you are not hitting it.  Its not easy to precision bomb with the db or havoc and missing by 10' is as good as a mile.  Was not so long ago when Delems and Ltartflak or however you spell his name where destroying my DB7s with the flak30s - yes flak30s,  it took me I think 6 sorties before I actually dropped their FMS. However to be fair.. the need for precision bombing on the FMS has really helped my precision bombing game in the DB7 and Havoc so much so that I dropped 2 FMS for the first time this map.. That's all 8 bombs on target.  That is a huge step for me. Usually it takes most of them and sometimes a second trip.

I was pointing it out for Merlin51.

 

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On 12/26/2017 at 0:53 PM, major0noob said:

been almost 10 months now... HEAT and tank-HE fix was out in days

even the sandbags were changed quickly

So would it be beneficial for the Developers/Coders to put in a fix that will be fixed with the HE/KE Audit they are currently working on? Or live with it now (since both sides are effected) and continue to work on the much needed Audit and get that out quicker?

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7 hours ago, delems said:

The real issue is there is just far too many aircraft in game, and axis has terrible AA defense against fighter allied bombers.

Ever seen db7 fly and a 111?  The db7 is easily twice as fast as it.

Cut the bombers from 200 to maybe 50.  See how that goes.

Make bombers mean something - make them get attritted;  Same for destroyers - rediculuse with 100 in game;  make it 36 (3,3,3,3,12,12).

That or axis AA has to become much better (with no increase to allied AA); axis light AA is already 3x worse than allies.

And PPOs should not all disappear within 100m of one bomb hit- that silly too.  What the point of a PPO for cover, if it gone by first air bomb?

The allied air in game is ridiculously over powered; it needs to be fixed.

 

DB7 vs HE111 payload is much different as well. Same as the AA - your logic is flawed, Allied vs Axis equipment debate will never be even. 88 at Tier 0 vs the French 37mle or how about the optics of the axis vs the allies? Each side has historical advantages and disadvantages. 

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On 12/27/2017 at 10:22 AM, vasduten1 said:

Wrong, Merlin.

Dude, could you put the damned bong away and pay attention and throw that speed reading course you are taking out the damned window?
Seriously

If as the other guy was saying, you change how the FM works
and then have the roof different from the sides, with the sides weak, the roof strong
and you get a bomb in the side, in what ever manner suits your bong watered brain this evening, you might very well get an FM that's weaker and goes down faster.
There are plenty of people in game that are very good at slingshot dropping, and i'm sure at least a few people would drive right into the side of it if the sides went down with just one bomb

As it is now, as i said up there where you are having trouble with reading comprehension
it at least does not matter where you hit it with the bomb, it is still taking X bombs.
And they do take damage from the sides as they sit now

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8 hours ago, blkhwk8 said:

DB7 vs HE111 payload is much different as well. Same as the AA - your logic is flawed, Allied vs Axis equipment debate will never be even. 88 at Tier 0 vs the French 37mle or how about the optics of the axis vs the allies? Each side has historical advantages and disadvantages. 

the logic isn't flawed... arguing bomb load is like saying the baby sherm and tiger are balanced cause they have similar HE.

in CAS; bomb load is irrelevant after 50lbs...

 

have fun defending the mighty flak30 though :popcorn:

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Hi,

I would agree that PPO's need to have similar survive-ability or damage thresholds as the FMS does itself to give them the meaning they deserve.

S!

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Suggesting that it should take 50 bombs to destroy ms is silly. A couple 500 lb bombs ought to do the trick. Hide your ms better. Its fine the way it is. Maybe you should be able to repair them though, they have a damage %.

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