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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

delems

88 still worthless

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Merlin51
6 minutes ago, stankyus said:

M71s where used  in the A1 and A2 76mm tanks.  The M4a3 used well TBH I really don't know, I do know that ALL the S76 variants had telescopic sites they had either 3x mag, 5x mag or variable 1x to 6x magnification. I think the one in the game is 3x.

76mm gunned shermans got M71 gunsights to start with.
Some at the factory, some in the field when they are pulled back to rear echelon for refittment to 76mm guns 

The M10f periscopic sight (not the TD) gets tossed in late war, not sure in what kind of ratios, late war everyone is attempting to shove 76mm's in everything A1 to A3.
Sights may have been done by availability, ive no idea how many wound up with their periscopes swapped from M8 to M10
In game terms, it does not really have a huge advantage over the M71D, it has a 1X scope and a 6X scope in it with 2 different reticles.
Youd get a little more mag but less FOV
Also in the game engine a weapon can only have 1 set of optics i think, and as you can see in the below pic, we are speaking of 2 separate devices
Sighting scope on left, above elevation gear, periscope at right with forehead pad (note link bar to sync periscope to gun elevation)
s-l1600-19.jpg


recticles-for-m10f-periscopes-1600x870.p

m70frecticle75mmsherman-286x300.pngHere's our good old friend M70

recticle-for-m71d-246x300.pngAnd the M71

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major0noob

the M10 sights, pre-fix grease gun, all new guns being off center, and FMS problems... all issues, barely tested and poorly implemented.

the issues have community feedback, in-game monitoring, stats, and bug reports backing them, it's poor QA and bad work on CRS's end.

 

repeating "whine brigades" and "playing the game wrong" got us the CRS that made the old grease gun and MP34...

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stankyus
9 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

76mm gunned shermans got M71 gunsights to start with.
Some at the factory, some in the field when they are pulled back to rear echelon for refittment to 76mm guns 

The M10f periscopic sight (not the TD) gets tossed in late war, not sure in what kind of ratios, late war everyone is attempting to shove 76mm's in everything A1 to A3.
Sights may have been done by availability, ive no idea how many wound up with their periscopes swapped from M8 to M10
In game terms, it does not really have a huge advantage over the M71D, it has a 1X scope and a 6X scope in it with 2 different reticles.
Youd get a little more mag but less FOV
Also in the game engine a weapon can only have 1 set of optics i think, and as you can see in the below pic, we are speaking of 2 separate devices
Sighting scope on left, above elevation gear, periscope at right with forehead pad (note link bar to sync periscope to gun elevation)
s-l1600-19.jpg


recticles-for-m10f-periscopes-1600x870.p

m70frecticle75mmsherman-286x300.pngHere's our good old friend M70

recticle-for-m71d-246x300.pngAnd the M71

The M4a3 we have in the game is not the M71. The M71 was a 5x site, the one in the game is a 3x site.

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saronin
23 minutes ago, bmbm said:

The yammering comment wasn't even directed at you, and was related to general whining over getting killed while playing alone (with any kit). The M10 gunsight is but one of many items on a long list of fixes waiting to happen. Everything will be taken care of in due order.

It's not fixed if it is not historic.  Period.  If we want to be Call of Duty with Sh!tty graphics then so be it.  If we continue down that road I won't be here though. There are better options on the horizon.

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Merlin51
32 minutes ago, stankyus said:

M71s where used  in the A1 and A2 76mm tanks.  The M4a3 used well TBH I really don't know

All shermans with 76mm guns, whether factory, or in field refittment got an M71 scope put in it, regardless of A1 A2 or A3 chassis.

An M10 periscope would be in addition to, not in lieu of.
Every 76mm gun came with an M71, but not every one got an M10. Some of the early turrets may or may not have had issues with periscope fitment, i am not 100% sure on that.

I have no idea on the numbers though, out of the 50,000 Shermans made during WWII, a large majority of those were probably refitted in the field
so you have things like time, and supply, and need to get the unit back to the front ASAP to contend with, if a guy has a working bore sighted scope, he is good to go really.

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Merlin51
6 minutes ago, stankyus said:

The M4a3 we have in the game is not the M71. The M71 was a 5x site, the one in the game is a 3x site.

No it isnt
The M4A3 is 5X, the M10/M4A2 Pre temp rollback) is 3X

For comparison, the tiger is a 2.5X sight at something like 24° FOV

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saronin
4 minutes ago, stankyus said:

The M4a3 we have in the game is not the M71. The M71 was a 5x site, the one in the game is a 3x site.

I am hoping you are right and the 3x was put on the M10.

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PITTPETE

Lets get back to push speed.

88 needs to be looked at.

This is a game, there needs to be some sort of enjoyment factor or people won't log in.

 

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stankyus
8 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

No it isnt
The M4A3 is 5X, the M10/M4A2 Pre temp rollback) is 3X

For comparison, the tiger is a 2.5X sight at something like 24° FOV

The Sherman 76 we have in the game is and always has been 3x sites.  The M10 sites prior had a greater magnification than the S76... one reason why I preferred the M10 over the S76 until I began to actually like it over the S76. Then the M10 TD sites where corrected to the 3x sites... and now back to the 5x sites.

The M10 had 5x sites that where corrected to the 3x sites and now back to the 5x sites it sounds like.

 

15 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

facepalm-emoticon.png

Lulz.

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Merlin51
39 minutes ago, stankyus said:

The Sherman 76 we have in the game is and always has been 3x sites.

No the S76 has M71 optics with 5X sights
You can check that for yourself, go offline and place a tiger clone every 200m, out to 1500m then put an S76 on the firing line at the range
and measure.

Pre Rollback, the M10 and the M4A2 75mm had M70 3X sights
At the moment they have 5X sites, hopefully it wont take long to get their corrected sights back in a readable form

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Lob12
4 hours ago, saronin said:

Blah blah blah. . Blah blah blah. 

Great quote right here :D 

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bmw2

Push Speed...

The amount of times I've thought " goddamn [censored] is so slow...I should get a second account to tow." 

I think that's what they want ;)

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delems

ATGs should be able to come from a truck;  You drive your truck out, select which gun you want, then press a key - and truck goes to gun.

Even better, if then that ATG could press a key and go back to truck.

How come everything else can be run with 1 person, but not ATGs?

 

I see the 88 only had -3 gun depression, so that is somewhat comforting that they may have actually coded it correctly.

But, as others said, we can't deform terrain or setup any type of defense/camouflage for the gun; so, in lieu of that, guns should be able to depress maybe -10 to -20?  This makes up for the no terrain modifications or any the of defense/camouflage.

 

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vasduten1
3 minutes ago, delems said:

ATGs should be able to come from a truck;  You drive your truck out, select which gun you want, then press a key - and truck goes to gun.

Even better, if then that ATG could press a key and go back to truck.

How come everything else can be run with 1 person, but not ATGs?

 

I see the 88 only had -3 gun depression, so that is somewhat comforting that they may have actually coded it correctly.

But, as others said, we can't deform terrain or setup any type of defense/camouflage for the gun; so, in lieu of that, guns should be able to depress maybe -10 to -20?  This makes up for the no terrain modifications or any the of defense/camouflage.

 

No, I want them to be accurate. More user friendly though...

Gun shields, the ability to plant camouflage around it, and the ability to spawn a truck, tow your own gun out and play without begging in target chat for a tow or being stuck towing five other players is what makes them a pain to use. Give a player the ability to just drive it where they want and it'll solve the push speed issue. Of course, because the sound is so um... not right, you'll be shot by a rifleman just as soon as you park.

 

@saronin once took nothing but  tier 0 Hawks out for weeks on end showing CRS how ineffective the 88s are. He scorched dozens of them without any problems.

 

 

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saronin
44 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

 

@saronin once took nothing but  tier 0 Hawks out for weeks on end showing CRS how ineffective the 88s are. He scorched dozens of them without any problems.

And Hurricane 1's.  I miss the days of playing rock you like a Hurricane on BK chat.  Nothing like taunting your own squad.

Edited by saronin
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BMBM
41 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

@saronin once took nothing but  tier 0 Hawks out for weeks on end showing CRS how ineffective the 88s are. He scorched dozens of them without any problems.

Ineffective, as AA guns or what? Of course fighters will slug 88s by the bushel - unless protected by bushels of lufties and/or actual AA guns. The same could be said for virtually any unit in the spawnlist. Why should the 88 be exempt from destruction?

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bmw2
46 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

Gun shields, the ability to plant camouflage around it, and the ability to spawn a truck, tow your own gun out and play without begging in target chat

I can get behind this. I love the 88 with the shield....and since our 88's are used for AT and not AA they should have shields. Also the truck idea is interesting. Maybe  be able to spawn a truck, with a different designation. Like its an Opel, but titles " AT Opel" or something. You should be able to drive a certain distance to target like the FMS then use the "Z" key to cycle through which AT gun they want to spawn as. Wait for the timer, then once the At is set you despawn and respawn to your AT like an MS. 

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saronin
Just now, bmbm said:

Ineffective, as AA guns or what? Of course fighters will slug 88s by the bushel - unless protected by bushels of lufties and/or actual AA guns. The same could be said for virtually any unit in the spawnlist. Why should the 88 be exempt from destruction?

At the time Allied aircraft had absolute supremacy.  Sorties each map were 2 to 1 on maps that the Allies lost.  Let alone maps they won where it would go higher.  I stopped keeping track when Hatched fixed the 109.  I just wanted to put on a little air show to put forth how bad that was in tier 0 when the 88 is touted that super wonder weapon that answers all the problems the Axis have.  I slaughtered them in pretty staggering numbers. ;) 

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BMBM

It's history, just like 109s and 110s tearing up A13s in staggering numbers, or riflemen clipping into tanks.... no use crying over it. I also recall the old days, where tri-wing, inverted-flying LW was strong as heck and loved to pile onto our sink-as-stone Dewos and slug-slow H75s in the dirty south. At the end of the day, some horses have been flogged more than enough and these old camp-fire gripes are pretty sad excuses for not enjoying what we have - a rather awesome spectacle if you put your mind to it.

But I do agree that the 88 should have its shield :)

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david01

More important than balance or historical accuracy is the fact that yet another game asset is barely being used.

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saronin
12 minutes ago, bmbm said:

It's history, just like 109s and 110s tearing up A13s in staggering numbers, or riflemen clipping into tanks.... no use crying over it. I also recall the old days, where tri-wing, inverted-flying LW was strong as heck and loved to pile onto our sink-as-stone Dewos and slug-slow H75s in the dirty south. At the end of the day, some horses have been flogged more than enough and these old camp-fire gripes are pretty sad excuses for not enjoying what we have - a rather awesome spectacle if you put your mind to it.

But I do agree that the 88 should have its shield :)

You should really read Hatch's write up on the Tri wing 109.  Completely over blown issue.

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Merlin51
1 hour ago, delems said:

How come everything else can be run with 1 person, but not ATGs?

They can technically
Yes the 88 is very slow to push, i put one at frankfurt on auto push and ate dinner and came back and it was almost where i wanted it.
But still, we can push it, with ammo boxes to boot.
Have ya pushed a 17pdr or 76mm? they truly are no joy either.
(Dont put the 17pdr on auto push, you will come back to find it upside down)

Would a gunshield be nice?
Yes and No.
It would initially give you the warm fuzzies, and sometimes it would even help you.
But i know you have used the other atg's so i know that you know very well most times you look at the gunshield and think well fat lot of good you did me!
tank rounds punch right threw them, EA of course comes right over the top, 20mmAP and 50cal AP go through and smart EI just run around behind us and pistol whips us.
Still, there are some times yea one would be nice even though most times we'd still be dead.

1 hour ago, vasduten1 said:

and the ability to spawn a truck, tow your own gun out and play without begging in target chat for a tow

FWIW i do spawn a truck and tow myself out.

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Merlin51
34 minutes ago, saronin said:

You should really read Hatch's write up on the Tri wing 109.  Completely over blown issue.

not overblown really
Wrong terminology, it never had any extra wings, but a small error in the wing shape data made it have more lift like having an extra wing kind of
Though technically that would be a Bi wing since the 109 is a Mono wing to start with

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saronin
Just now, merlin51 said:

not overblown really
Wrong terminology, it never had any extra wings, but a small error in the wing shape data made it have more lift like having an extra wing kind of
Though technically that would be a Bi wing since the 109 is a Mono wing to start with

If you read Hatch’s explanation he explained the error allowed for slightly less energy bleed off in a turn. 

Compare that with spitfires modeled after the X-Wing in Star wars. 

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