ZEBBEEE

Pricing model overhaul

42 posts in this topic

It has gone unoticed but on February 1st CRS removed the F2P offer. 

Aside from the problem caused by unfair reviews of people just doing it wrong, the retention has been pretty modest.

we all agree the gameplay must be fixed but meanwhile there might be some lost opportunities. Should the pricing model be  overhauled?

Brainstorming :

  • Single players could have a pay-to-play model (##€ for a limit of ### kills). They can spend their quota whenever they want.
  • Squads could be offered a special subscription-based program (###€/month for # cheaper licences). At anytime they could adapt the # of licences, but with a minimum of 3. Squads can dynamically distribute their licences and freely decide how they make their own members contribute. In counterpart they would get access to extra priviliges (management features, supplies...).  The logics is that a squad momentum would bring much more to the game than single players.
  • For all: extra one-time-pay packages to become part of some "elite troops with special authorisations and capabilities" (special weapons, extra ammo load-out, adapted gameplay rules or capabilities...). Available for lifetime or for # campaigns.

other thoughts/suggestions?

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Dang it, beat me to the punch again @B2K

All F2P previously created are grandfathered in, and will be able to play.

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Existing f2p remain but you can no longer through steam.

People should move to basic subscriptions now that the project is on tracks again.

Veterans, active squad guys and HC guys should go builder. 

So we will all move forward more quickly 

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3 hours ago, Zebbeee said:

It has gone unoticed but on February 1st CRS removed the F2P offer. 

Aside from the problem caused by unfair reviews of people just doing it wrong, the retention has been pretty modest.

we all agree the gameplay must be fixed but meanwhile there might be some lost opportunities. Should the pricing model be  overhauled?

Lost opportunities? I don't think that there's anything that you can squeeze out of the current user base that would make up for effectively pulling the game from Steam. That's a huge amount of people to shut out.

 

More active users in game, more things to shoot at and more activity is the only way to make the game valuable enough for a $15/month sub anymore. Gotta expand the user base to rebuild the subscriber base, which is why after the Steam launch I was pulling the fire alarm about what a bad time the F2P players were having. Everyone is still talking about pop balance being the problem instead of low activity too so there's not really agreement on gameplay fixes either.

 

Your suggestion about squad accounts sounds nice but it requires new squad features, and is also related to the health of squads. So it won't be soon and it might not bring in all that much revenue, especially since squads already use communal accounts. Pre-paid builder accounts sort of defeat the purpose of a builder account which is to willingly pay more money. An elite package works in other games, but not here because CRS can't modify units on a per-case basis. Also many of the special features and abilities that you might think about selling to players or squads conflict with HC and the supply system. 

 

The only thing I can think of in terms of special features is to pay something and have the rank cap on all units reduced to three or something like that. It would actually synergize with the very poor decision to introduce the first planes in years at rank 7 with no welcome-back promotion. There are three personas per faction and frequently you have vets that don't have rank in the other faction, or do but not in the appropriate air or naval persona. In Planetside 2 the main benefit of buying something with "station cash" instead of certs is that it's available for all of the characters on your account. Not sure how much people would be willing to pay though, and again it would just be gleaning revenue from existing users.

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38 minutes ago, david01 said:

More active users in game, more things to shoot at and more activity is the only way to make the game valuable enough for a $15/month sub anymore.

 

Like I tell everyone, my wife and I were each paying $15/mo to play the game Horizons: Empire of Istaria, 14 years ago.  Then, for over eight years, from 2004 to 2012, I paid $15/mo to play City of Heroes.  $15/mo is just not that much anymore.  It was the standard game subscription price many years ago, when movie tickets were $5.  Now, tickets are almost $10.  You'll likely pay over $20 if you go to a movie and buy refreshments (popcorn and a soft drink).  For less than the price of two hours of entertainment, you get a month's worth of 24/7 gaming.  How is that not "valuable enough" to be worth $15.  It boggles the mind how many people want something for nothing (or nearly so).

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

Edited by odonovan1
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CRS priority more than terrain or any feature should be implementing a true F2P system.

Credit Point System

The so called point credit system, each units has a point value from playing the game, the points you  earn in each mission would get added to a pool that you could be used for free players to purchase one time spawns of a particular unit, this would be time consuming this free players and to be generating more gameplay to other player so they could use tanks and be more competitive.

Population would be more stable this way and eventually the players who had the monetary capacity would rather choose to spend their time using the units and doing the things they rather than be forced to grind rifle or any atg.

Only one premium account

Every game doesn't split their content between tiers this devalues and make less of a good deal for someone on the fence, rather all modern games try to pack the most they can on a premium model that makes it to be very enticing. So basically delete the concept of started account.

Premium gameplay time sharing model

Add a solution for having premium, that you don't pay per month but by hours of premium gameplay, this is great for more busy players who don't want to pay 14$ to just play 3 times in a month.

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1 hour ago, odonovan1 said:

 

Like I tell everyone, my wife and I were each paying $15/mo to play the game Horizons: Empire of Istaria, 14 years ago.  Then, for over eight years, from 2004 to 2012, I paid $15/mo to play City of Heroes.  $15/mo is just not that much anymore.  It was the standard game subscription price many years ago, when movie tickets were $5.  Now, tickets are almost $10.  You'll likely pay over $20 if you go to a movie and buy refreshments (popcorn and a soft drink).  For less than the price of two hours of entertainment, you get a month's worth of 24/7 gaming.  How is that not "valuable enough" to be worth $15.  It boggles the mind how many people want something for nothing (or nearly so).

-Irish

I think you are also choosing to forget that most online games allow you to play their game completely for free now something that did not happen 14 years ago .. and most games did remove their sub models or change to give a free version.

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9 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

I think you are also choosing to forget that most online games allow you to play their game completely for free now something that did not happen 14 years ago .. and most games did remove their sub models or change to give a free version.

And those games allow you to buy your way to victory.  We don't do that so.... 

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1 hour ago, odonovan1 said:

Like I tell everyone, my wife and I were each paying $15/mo to play the game Horizons: Empire of Istaria, 14 years ago.  Then, for over eight years, from 2004 to 2012, I paid $15/mo to play City of Heroes.  $15/mo is just not that much anymore.  It was the standard game subscription price many years ago, when movie tickets were $5.  Now, tickets are almost $10.  You'll likely pay over $20 if you go to a movie and buy refreshments (popcorn and a soft drink).  For less than the price of two hours of entertainment, you get a month's worth of 24/7 gaming.  How is that not "valuable enough" to be worth $15.  It boggles the mind how many people want something for nothing (or nearly so).

Other FPS games that are one-time purchase or F2P, and have equal or greater numbers of players involved along with much better FPS mechanics. Other games like EVE online have solid guilds and are persistent 24/7. Which is why I've been repeating here that the game needs to increase the activity level improve the FPS gameplay, and get squads back rather than piddling around with flags. Hosting and bandwidth costs have plummeted since 2004 which is why other games are going full F2P instead of retreating from it like this one. If you are still wondering take your argument to the main Steam General Discussion forum and ask why this game isn't worth a $15 subscription.

 

At any rate the only thing I can think of is a "pay this for a permanently lowered rank cap". It would be even better if a person could buy it for other accounts. But there's not much to work with considering that the points system is still broken and neglected.

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4 minutes ago, B2K said:

And those games allow you to buy your way to victory.  We don't do that so.... 

Like which? Many cases don't Warthunder certainly doesn't... And you could argued compared to F2P WW2ol subscriptions buys your way to Victory with significantly better equipment and roles.

As I stated the model I ask has very few risks and most of the negative reviews you got on Steam is based on pricing model and not allowing F2P to use tanks or ATGs, with this system WW2ol would probably sit on a positive review.

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18 hours ago, pbveteran said:

Like which? Many cases don't Warthunder certainly doesn't... And you could argued compared to F2P WW2ol subscriptions buys your way to Victory with significantly better equipment and roles.

As I stated the model I ask has very few risks and most of the negative reviews you got on Steam is based on pricing model and not allowing F2P to use tanks or ATGs, with this system WW2ol would probably sit on a positive review.

How do games such as Warthunder make money, is Warthunder micro-transactions?

We can all come up with ideas for pricing models and say how well we think they would work but if it was your game on the line would you take the gamble?

Games that make money from micro-transactions were designed from the ground up for that exact purpose, changing our game over to something like that would be a massive amount of work.

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20 hours ago, pbveteran said:

CRS priority more than terrain or any feature should be implementing a true F2P system.

Credit Point System

The so called point credit system, each units has a point value from playing the game, the points you  earn in each mission would get added to a pool that you could be used for free players to purchase one time spawns of a particular unit, this would be time consuming this free players and to be generating more gameplay to other player so they could use tanks and be more competitive.

Population would be more stable this way and eventually the players who had the monetary capacity would rather choose to spend their time using the units and doing the things they rather than be forced to grind rifle or any atg.

Only one premium account

Every game doesn't split their content between tiers this devalues and make less of a good deal for someone on the fence, rather all modern games try to pack the most they can on a premium model that makes it to be very enticing. So basically delete the concept of started account.

Premium gameplay time sharing model

Add a solution for having premium, that you don't pay per month but by hours of premium gameplay, this is great for more busy players who don't want to pay 14$ to just play 3 times in a month.

No it shouldn't...

I'm glad that CRS doesn't listen to those who continue to push the F2p model od microtransactions.

 

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8 hours ago, Pittpete said:

No it shouldn't...

I'm glad that CRS doesn't listen to those who continue to push the F2p model od microtransactions.

 

Your loss and the game loss, nothing more sad then to trying to form a panzer column and have no panzers show up or calling for paras and only have 2-3.. If they were enough tankers on the game and I could form this columns maybe I would subscribe and make a Panzer Centric squad but without players I won't ever do this.

4 Years ago was making 20+ panzer columns haven't manage a single one after the FMS addition.

Many people said swtor would not survive with a conversion to have a F2P model.. yet this saved the game.. in fact it double their revenue but again most of WW2ol community are old timers, who are not in tune with the industry or even their competition.

http://www.pcgamer.com/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/

LoTR was in his death bed, they implement a F2P model and they are still going.

"On June 4, 2010, it was announced the game was to add a free-to-play option in the autumn, with an in-game store. Free-to-play was successfully launched in North America on September 10, 2010. After a delay in Europe, free-to-play went live on November 2, 2010.[24]During the following six months the company reported tripled revenues from the title "wiki

@XOOM needs to calculate what is the cost for each player then make the most enticing as possible, so that player spends more than what he costs, for example I'm playing a game called Star Wars Commander because I was new and very active after 2 weeks I knew what I was doing and what things value were, then the game made me an offer for only 2 $ I would get a very good deal over 75% discount .. so yeah I paid and got a great deal in my PoV but possibly for the actual game they made enough money to cover my entire costs for a year.

Does CRS log the metrics and the F2P who play or are very active on the game(you know they understand the game and what they will gain) and offer a premium subscription for like 3.99 just to get some money out of them and not loss them? I think not.

Anyways I'm not a dev or the company online marketing and revenue consultant but this stuff is basic knowledge and I would bet you and even Xoom knew nothing of these case studies or metric logs.

Edited by pbveteran

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This was also during the height of the Free To Play (micro-transaction) craze, and SWTOR's free to play approach is quite elegant. I've put several hours into that game and enjoyed it quite a bit before taking on the full weight of responsibility here at CRS.

It's simple just not where we are right now and it's not within reach to achieve for sometime. They did it better than we can or have, undoubtedly. But the game is very very different as well in many respects, and that needs to be factored in. For example, it has (at your own speed - instanced / away from everyone else) character progression. It's designed around that, instead of just a straight up MMO FPS entirely intended to have thousands of users in real time together across a global war like we have fighting head on. So by design the game is incredibly different, and fun, for what it is. But it's not WWII Online... that is its own unique beast and needs to be treated as such.

The decision to disable new free players via Steam from come in was not a quick decision but we were certainly able to review the results and we think (as we announced) that we'll attract a better demographic that will fit our game better in many respects. It will also give us some time (and revenue) to make the changes necessary to make it more playable for Steam users (better UI, integrated voice comms, 64-bit, etc).

We got a lot to do. All of the Steam users who signed up as Free Play will remain and they're grandfathered in, therefore you shouldn't see a hit at our population that we've accumulated so far.

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11 hours ago, Nick said:

How do games such as Warthunder make money, is Warthunder micro-transactions?

WT has a lot of things they sell.
From vanity decals, to actual camouflage paint, and camo items like bushes on your tank.
They also have premium elite units that are for sale cash only.
You can also spend cash to "rank up" your tank crews, speed up your RDP so to speak.
Right now i think you have to pay for most of the french armored units.
They also sell mission/theater packs. 
They also sell subs that speed up your ranking and earning of silver lions and RDP points (RP)
And a bunch more things i have missed.

They sell a lot of stuff, but it isnt a true MMO and it is all instanced match based and you are grouped by your chosen vehicles battle rating (Of the highest unit in your bar)
There is more you can sell there because of that, it is just matches you can play over and over.
If some guy with 500 bucks to spend mops the floor with you, he might not be there next match.
 

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, brady said:

What, no more F2P ? Some of the best players are F2P, that's sucks

Ha      ha           hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh my sides hurt and I cant get up off the floor.     LMAO ROFL

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Missed to lock the chat bar , the Veterans in game could not help the new guys cause most either turned off the HUD , did not speak the language or plain and simple did not know how to use  the text comms. 

By not speak the language even when a player would see his name in the chat bar they would still respond , but we didn't even get that ,so one can only assume most had the chat bar completely off. This was addressed right after steam launched in these forums but nothing happened ,you can still  toggle it off the screen at will. 

No wonder we had so many clue less players running around. We were supposed to help but the tools were not given .  

 

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I don't think that you guys thought this through. Steam games have tags, and tags are put there by users. You release a game as F2P you can't just retract everything without some confusion, especially if technically offer a F2P option on your main site still. It's a marketing disaster.

xidyxm.png

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25 minutes ago, david01 said:

I don't think that you guys thought this through. Steam games have tags, and tags are put there by users. You release a game as F2P you can't just retract everything without some confusion, especially if technically offer a F2P option on your main site still. It's a marketing disaster.

xidyxm.png

I don’t think the changes made by the team were thought to not have any confusion with it at all. Not really a disaster. We shall continue to push forward.

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War Thunder has a similar business model to World of X games. Their business model is a pretty decently executed combination of Anti-Grind and Premium Content.

War Thunder and World of X games rely on two types of regular currency and two types of premium currency. The regular currencies are Research and Money (Silver Eagles for WT), and the Premium currencies are Free Research and Gold (Golden Eagles for WT).

As the player progresses their account, they will find it harder and harder and harder to progress because the next thing costs exponentially more currency to unlock. What once took a handful of games now takes dozens if not hundreds to get further. This is "The Grind", and it frustrates the player.

To ease their frustration, WT and World of X games offer "Premium Time" to purchase, which gives substantial boosts to those in-game currencies. They also offer one-time purchases of individual vehicles that have those substantial boosts whenever the player plays with them, even if they don't have Premium Time active. Sometimes these are well-balanced and aren't pay-to-win. Sometimes they aren't well-balanced, and it's easy to find some recent-ish community meltdowns for World of Tanks over Pay-to-Win premium vehicles, and there has been some controversy with WT in the past.

Furthermore, World of Tanks offers premium ammunition and other premium consumables that provide extreme advantages over opponents.

To War Thunder's credit, they do not offer premium ammunition. Instead, they offer premium cosmetics.

The premium currency can also be used to convert bonus research points you've earned but can't use into points you can use.

Their business model is very clear: "Entice the player with quick progression at the beginning. Frustrate the player by hitting them with a virtual wall so that they will hand us money to make it less frustrating. To make sure they keep handing us money, make it temporary." Even if it is well-executed, popular, and profitable, it is still predatory in nature. It encourages an emotion in players and then exploits that.

Edited by chaoswzkd

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New pricing plan:  Premium for $0.50/hour, and free after paying for 30 hrs/month.  

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One thing that I really don't understand is the disconnect between mediums of media and their cost.

Movie tickets cost $10 - $15 USD for 1.5 - 2 hrs of entertainment. Let's be generous and say it's $10 for 2 hrs.

So right now WWII OL is selling starter accounts that say that you will get at least about 1.5 hrs of entertainment in a month, and about 2.5 to 3 hours of entertainment a month if you go to full premium.

I'm pretty sure people are playing the game WAY more than that. They're getting their money's entertainment worth.

I realize that I'm not including a cost/benefit analysis vs. other games, but that's the point: games actually worth playing are very de-valued for what you actually get out of them.

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The thing is chaos that the game isn't running hot 24/7, it's 1-AO about 16 hours a day now with a brief 2-AO prime time. Then consider the weeklong ending phase where one side has given up, cut-offs when there's nothing to spawn and no fair fights for days, and intermissions and suddenly you're looking at very little proper game time. Especially if you can only play on the weekends or at specific times. And this is all assuming that HC is staffed and working properly when you do log on. So you pay a monthly sub, but you don't get anywhere near a month of good playtime. Also the starter account is a bad reference because it's a total ripoff. With a starter you pay every month and still can't use essential units of the game. This is a $15 game don't pretend you can play it for $8 option. Any talk about not being pay2win gets defeated by the players not being able to spawn effective counters to tanks. You got to look at the realworld value not the value on paper.

 

I just got done playing a bit of Planetside 2. I put a lot of money in to that game over the past years (just like I did here) and all my stuff is still there minus some minor benefits. Constant 96 vs 96 fights and smaller all over the map, lots of action. Pauses in the fighting are only a few minutes if that, and even then it's because players are moving and organizing not because of some arbitrary game mechanics. I can play at odd hours and no one flips out about late-night captures. No one gives me [censored] for being a F2P player. The game community is active. Now look at WW2online, do you think that the allies are going to recover and there are going to be lots of good fights this weekend? Possible but most likely there will be a slow crawl westward that will take all of next week, with next weekend being an intermission. These things all devalue the sub IMO.

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