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mcafeed

Axis LMG Fix, will it EVER come?

70 posts in this topic

So instead of fixing the Axis LMG from a 1000 round per minute handgun and sniper rifle, Axis get the FG42, another 1000 round per minute handgun, which modeling is equally ludicrous.

Axis LMG has a 80% kill advantage over the allied LMGs against enemy infantry.

Axis FG42 has a 69% kill advantage over the allied SMGs against enemy infantry. 

WOW, ridiculous, even comical statistical evidence

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And the panny/dac usually have a 3000% armor kill advantage over the 232.

The havoc/db7 usually have 300% kill over axis bombers.

The allied light AA have a 300% kill advantage over axis light AA to bombers.

Mattie typically a 500% advantage......

What's your point?  You ready to remove all those allied advantages?

 

Axis get a whopping 15 FG42..... and not till tier 3; it barely makes a dent in terms of total damage. (my big 15 sorties resulted in 0 kills..)

 

Lets talk about that fantasy grease gun maybe... how many you get?  KD over 1.0 every map....... enters in tier 0....

If anything is lala land ludicrous, it is that.

 

Edited by delems
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IMO Both the Allied LMG's and the Axis LMG should be Bi-pod only fire, I do crazy [censored] with the Allied LMG's often enough, and we do have the grease gun so its best imo to not throw stones in our glass house, at least not till they start to fix this stuff.

 

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All these LMGs are only good if you find a great spot and then you kill alot. Plenty of times where I came around the corner as an LMG enemy right there pull the trigger and my bullets go all around over and short of the guy cause unless it's an extreme short burst you are all over the map.  

He pulls his rifle up and shoots once and I die while I just spewed 30 rounds at him but because of the recoil not one bullet hit it's mark.

Most successful if it's deployed otherwise it's a spray and hope weapon.

 

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8 minutes ago, dre21 said:

All these LMGs are only good if you find a great spot and then you kill alot. Plenty of times where I came around the corner as an LMG enemy right there pull the trigger and my bullets go all around over and short of the guy cause unless it's an extreme short burst you are all over the map.  

He pulls his rifle up and shoots once and I die while I just spewed 30 rounds at him but because of the recoil not one bullet hit it's mark.

Most successful if it's deployed otherwise it's a spray and hope weapon.

 

Well, idk about u but I can kill all kinda stuff with out the weapon being deployed and at ranges that would make a SMG envious.

 

 

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I must suck then . I rather deploy . 

Mine seem to go all over , even as a smg I can stop ,aim pull the trigger , and it's a 70/30 chance my bullets will hit where I aimed . Plenty of times where the other player turned around or got his shot off 2nd and I die. But then I don't always play Infantry , I rather sit in Armor, then Infantry / ATG  2nd and Planes last.

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MG34 isn't quite 1000 rounds per minute, that comes later in the MG42.
The 34 is about 800, which is what it should be. Bren is a bit slower at 600, but its no slouch, the FN 24/29 is the slowest at what seems to be about 450 rpm in game.

The Bren and the FN24/29 both have the largest tactical magazines that were available for them, and the MG34 has the smallest ammo load that was available for it.
FN24/29 never had anything other than 25 as far as i know, except non portable naval mounting.
The Bren could have smaller actually, 30 round mags weren't the standard one CRS picked the larger one.
The MG34 technicall could run around with loose belting in any multiple of 50, a 50 round assault box which just simply gives a fast non mess way of running around with and loading 50 round belt sections, or in the early years it could actually be running around with a twin drum 75 round magazine. CRS picked the smallest possible for it.

Those things are simply how it was, nothing wrong there.

The thing that is wrong, is equally wrong for the Bren as it is for the FN24/29 as it is for the MG34
No one went about shooting them on full auto while jogging and spinning around.
Fired standing? Yes.
Shoulder sighted? Yes.
Fired in motion? Yes, motion being the equivalent of the ingame slow crouch walk.
Fire while running or any semblance of hurried motion? No, and that pretty much goes for everything including bolt rifles.
 

As for the FG42, have you checked the axis spawn lists?
It is very limited to reflect that it was in real life limited, and really it is just a a rifle somewhat like the BAR, has similar capabilities, deployable, shoulder sighted, full auto
which is almost as bad as the BAR as far as dispersion/recoil.
FG42 looks cooler hands down, but then the BAR is from WWI so...
I mean i dont see what terrible thing is happening with the FG42 aside from some people are getting shot with them, but that is the idea right?

Go play axis for a bit besides that one time in 2001 and i think you will change your mind about any perceived bias.

The game is not red VS blue
Sometimes you simply will not have a better what-ever thing than what the other guy has
Sometimes you will never have a "better" thing of a certain type.

Mr Delems case in point.
Axis did not have a scout car much capable of taking out anything but paper armor tanks until the "Puma" came out
Puma was of course late to the party, US supplied factions will never touch the Puma though, their scout cars will man 37mm guns and that's it.
But (Sorry delems) Axis rise the the scout car top is short lived as it ends at the Puma and the brits will put a tank turret with a 6PDR in it on top of a tin box and call it an AEC
and win the scout car race. (cause they are nuts, who "Scouts" with a pdr on the roof in a borrowed tank turret?)

What do you do about that?
Nothing. the idea is not to change history through manipulating technology but to change it through course of action whith the technology in place at a given time.

 

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30 minutes ago, dre21 said:

I must suck then . I rather deploy . 

Mine seem to go all over , even as a smg I can stop ,aim pull the trigger , and it's a 70/30 chance my bullets will hit where I aimed . Plenty of times where the other player turned around or got his shot off 2nd and I die. But then I don't always play Infantry , I rather sit in Armor, then Infantry / ATG  2nd and Planes last.

Depends highly on situation.
5 10 feet? you could probably spray down the other guy before he can aim.
Now undeployed LMG vs aimed bolt rifle at 50M+, money is on the rifle

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Have you used the MG 34? it's pretty bad since they nerfed it by increasing the dispersion like in 2011, it's ridiculously inaccurate at 200m+ even on single fire.

You can only complain about infantry weapons if you mention the dispersion the fact that almost every weapon one hit kills you, makes RoF and Caliber nearly irrelevant, it's allow about knowing how to flank, how to move on the battlefield being the less exposed as possible.

So this doesn't come to weapon but to infantry play.. Maybe this a Rage Thread..

 

I would actually like to complaint about both MG 34 and MP40 dispersion it's extremely inaccurate compared to real life.

If you want to ask that the LMGs to be shot from the hip must forced the soldier to walk while still being  pretty inaccurate at ranges above 50m I'm all for it!

Edited by pbveteran

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38 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

Have you used the MG 34?

Me? yes.
MG34 should not be supper accurate with a tight shot group, it somewhat defeats the purpose of it, hard to get good suppression fire when the bullets wont spread.
That was one of the british soldiers big complains about the bren, you needed a worn barrel to get any usable dispersion.

It doesn't do very well to try to suppress people moving in an area when you have to micromanage where the bullets are going to try to get them spread out.
Great to snipe one guy, not so great to convince 10 guys that this is not the way you were looking for, you should go back where you came from.

Quote

The U.S. Ordnance Department Tests the German MG 34 Light Machine Gun, 1942

The first test of the German MG 34 was initiated at the Aberdeen Proving Center on 8 March 1942, lasting until 5 May 1942. Due to the lack of sufficient 7.92mm ammunition (only 1,383 rounds of tracer, ball and AP were captured with the weapon), the endurance test was not performed. 

The initial impression of the MG 34 as reported from the field was that it was a very effective machine gun, and accomplished its mission in an efficient manner. The weapon and ammunition being submitted for the test had been captured in the Middle East. Three additional breech bolts were received with the weapon, all bearing different numbers, which did not correspond with the arm’s primary serial number. This led Ordnance personnel to initially believe that the bolts were hand fitted to each particular weapon. However, all of the bolts fit and functioned in the subject piece. 

Ordnance Department Description, 1942

The MG 34 is the standard machine gun of the German Army. It can be employed as a light machine gun on a bipod or light tripod, or as a heavy machine gun on a tripod or the Lafette 34 mount. The machine gun can be used for anti-aircraft purposes on either tripod. Other mounts have been reported including a twin A.A. mount, which mounts a pair of MG 34 LMG’s in a side-by-side configuration. In addition to mounts, there are a number of different sights to include; the standard sights, the rear sight is a U-shaped affair graduated from 200 to 2,000 meters with a blade type front sight; an anti-aircraft sight with an aperture rear sight and a “cartwheel” A.A. front sight, mounted approximately 8-inches to the rear of the standard front sight position. A dial-type sight is used for the heavy machine gun role; this sight has a 3x magnification with a field of view of about 240 yards wide with a range of 1,000 yards. 

The MG 34 is a short recoil-operated, belt fed air-cooled design. It operates on the typical Solothurn action. It is similar to the MG 15 weapon, differing mainly in that the bolt incorporates a firing pin spring and a tripped firing pin. This principal allows the bolt head to be completely locked before the force of the driving spring pushes the bolt body forward another 1/2-inch, releasing the firing pin by means of a trip. 

The MG 34 is normally fed by a metallic ammunition belt, although the German hand book for the MG 34 also refers to a 50 and a 75-round cartridge drum. Each belt contains 50 rounds, although troops often join together as many as 5 belts for a 250-round capacity. 

This weapon was originally reported to be easily manufactured; at first glance this appears to be true because of its circular configuration. However a closer study reveals that there are many intricate milling cuts on the breech-bolt alone. The bolt of this weapon has been shown to numerous American manufacturers, all of who estimated a high cost of manufacture for the part. Other parts of the MG 34 that require difficult machining procedures are the receiver, rear of the barrel jacket, the trigger mechanism and the feed cam. The reminder of the parts appear to be simple to produce, but not enough to off-set the cost of the complex pieces. 

Field Stripping

The time required to field strip the MG 34 was 15-seconds, reassembly time 25-seconds. A complete strip requires approximately 2 minutes, reassembly time requires about 3 minutes. Time required for a barrel change was 6 seconds.

Firing Test

Accuracy of the MG 34 was found to be rather poor. Fired from the prone position, at a range of 300 yards an experienced gunner engaged five paper targets that measured 6 feet by 9 feet. Twenty rounds were fired using the semiautomatic mode. Only two of the targets had twenty hits with an extreme spread from 53 to 65.5 inches. The remaining targets showed 13, 15 and 19 hits on target.

Using full-automatic fire at 300 yards the weapon could not be held on the 6 foot by 9 foot targets, firing twenty-round bursts. Results on three separate targets were; two of the targets had 13 hits one had only 9 hits. 

The average muzzle velocity was 2,380 feet per second. The cyclic rate of fire was measured at 750 rounds per minute with the booster plug closed and 830 rounds per minute with the booster plug set at 15-notches out from the closed position.

The MG 34 was capable of lifting 75 rounds of belted ammunition during firing.

Noted during the test was that most of the motion of the weapon during firing was in a horizontal plane. The jarring of the gunner’s head during firing made aiming difficult. Motion in the vertical plane was small, due to the point of support being in a direct line with the bore. The moment of forces acting on the muzzle are close to zero with little tendency to rise. This characteristic has been recently investigated at the Proving Ground with a Thompson submachine gun, using an improvised straight-line buttstock. The results of this testing bear out that the most efficient position of the stock is directly in line with the bore. 

Problems encountered during the test.

During the early phases of the test a lack of sufficient power was noted due to 41 short recoils in the first 60 rounds fired. The short cycling resulted in failures to feed and eject. After several attempts at replacing various parts, it was necessary to disassemble the ammunition from the belts and remove all of the fine sand and debris from the ammunition and belts. After cleaning the weapon functioned in a satisfactory manner. An interesting note was during testing at Aberdeen, the MG 34 was subjected to Ordnance’s standard artificial sand test with no major problems encountered. Further investigation revealed that the sand present on the weapon and ammunition was from the Middle East and had a very fine consistency and was nearly invisible to the naked eye. 

The general functioning is excellent, but the weapon is critical to proper adjustment, lubrication and foreign matter. The weapon was originally fitted with a booster having a .420-inch diameter. A new muzzle booster was made with a .350 and .380-inch diameters. With the clean ammunition and the .350-inch booster the weapon functioned well. The semiautomatic trigger would not function correctly, double and triple shots were common when attempting to fire the machine gun semi-automatically.

The accuracy of the German MG 34 during automatic fire is poor, this is due in part to the recoil and shock to the gunner’s shoulder. Its rate of automatic fire is far to high for a weapon of this type. The stability is good due to the point of support being a direct prolongation of the bore.

The weapon’s resistance to heat is very good.

The ability to rapidly change the barrel was excellent. German manuals state that a maximum of 250 rounds of continuous fire requires a barrel change. However, German prisoners of war have stated that up to 400 rounds could be fired during an emergency situation before changing out the barrel. 

Conclusions of the U.S. Ordnance Department Testing

Results of the testing concluded that the MG 34 is simple, easy to disassemble in the field, however it would be difficult to manufacture on a mass production basis.

The general functioning is quite good, but is extremely critical to adjustment, lubrication and foreign matter.

The performance of the MG 34 during the dust test was considered poor; functioning in extreme cold was poor. Full-automatic performance is poor due to the recoil and shock to the gunner’s shoulder. Its rate of fire is too high for a light machine gun. The ease of changing out a hot barrel is excellent. The belt lift is good.

In general the German MG 34 is neither adaptable to American manufacturing methods due to the critical tolerance of its parts, or to the American soldier due to its inaccuracy. 
 

 

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Clearly they were testing a MG34 with miss-matched parts, a worn barrel and likely inferior or improperly loaded ammo..

There are plenty of Vids and respected expert reviews that refute completely the article you have quoted..

Frankly an absurdity...

Secondly they are numerous 1st person accounts of MG34 fired from the hip whilst moving vigorously such as clearing a trench complex...

Here is a good one..

"In Deadly Combat": A German Soldier's Memoir of the Eastern Front by Gottlob Herbert Bidermann.

It would be worth while going to a range and rent one whilst your at it a MP40 as well..

That would clear up a lot of rubbish for you very quickly... See for yourself....

Cheers Monty..

Don't bury History under a pack of lies....

Edited by montyuno
grammar
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dispersion helps MG's hit targets...

The bren had a rep for outstanding accuracy, up to 6' at 100m, the soldiers didn't like it and used worn barrels to hit a larger area with bursts.

That American report just goes to show how inexperienced they were to modern (1940s) warfare. Also they were definitely stingy with the gun and ammo, 1k rounds is like rifle testing

Edited by major0noob

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21 hours ago, Pittpete said:

giphy-tumblr.gif

Those free forums are so le suck.

Old whines from 2005 for the lose. 

22 hours ago, delems said:

(my big 15 sorties resulted in 0 kills..)

 

Thats just normal for you lol.

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7 hours ago, major0noob said:

That American report just goes to show how inexperienced they were to modern (1940s) warfare. Also they were definitely stingy with the gun and ammo, 1k rounds is like rifle testing

Different Doctrines
The axis wanted to center everything around the LMG, it was the spear head.
For that, you want 800 rpm hitting as many square inches as possible, cause you are probably a hell of a lot closer to angry things than the US GI toting the 30ca browning
If there are 7 men in front of you, you want to hit all 7 as fast as possible with out having to rifle aim every bullet.

Hell, wait until we get an MG42,  bullet Volcano.

For the US and Brits, it was not centered on the LMG, and both were of the mind to varying degrees that aimed shots and a level of accuracy was the order of the day.
Lots of aim carefully, conserve ammo propaganda posters flyers and films from back then.

The brits got it a little bit, like you said they faulted the bren on being too tight and not slinging the lead wide enough and preferred a worn out bren.
 

The US's most heavily used suppression weapons i guess one might say was the never ending supply of artillery shells and bombs, and those have tons of dispersion
so much for the aim carefully, conserve ammo eh?

7 hours ago, major0noob said:

Also they were definitely stingy with the gun and ammo, 1k rounds is like rifle testing

Having to guess, that might have been all the intact ammo that they had in their possession at the time?
The Israelis had more when they tested it in 1950, they tested the MG34 and the Bren while developing the Dror 

 

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Merlin please stop .......you get annoying sounding like you know what you're talking about

 

Brits had a  similar doctrine, Just a different gun. 

16 minutes in . The BREN, accurate yes nice ,overly so not neccessarily .......

 

Edited by goreblimey
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On 2/4/2018 at 10:56 AM, mcafeed said:

So instead of fixing the Axis LMG from a 1000 round per minute handgun and sniper rifle, Axis get the FG42, another 1000 round per minute handgun, which modeling is equally ludicrous.

Axis LMG has a 80% kill advantage over the allied LMGs against enemy infantry.

Axis FG42 has a 69% kill advantage over the allied SMGs against enemy infantry. 

WOW, ridiculous, even comical statistical evidence

what about your tommy gun??? you might as well call it an lmg, the fire rate on it is atrocious. furthermore the grease gun is SO accurate at 300+ meters its BS. no joke ive gotten killed at 300+ meters with a grease gun... and the french SMG has a high ROF also...so quit your b!tching

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1 hour ago, Ltarflak said:

furthermore the grease gun is SO accurate at 300+ meters its BS. no joke ive gotten killed at 300+ meters with a grease gun

Really?  Your glasses are way better than mine then, i'd barely be able to see you to aim at you at 300m, you'd be under the gunsight.
Id be lucky if i sprayed, prayed to all the gods i could name, and hit you with something.
I might hit you, but it sure wont be due to skill or accuracy on my part and mostly just bad luck on your part.
 

 

1 hour ago, Ltarflak said:

what about your tommy gun??? you might as well call it an lmg, the fire rate on it is atrocious.

Attrocious meaning wrong or just meaning a lot?
the US M1 is probably very close to the MG34, around 800rpm, the brits older M1928 model is a little bit slower.
So yes, it is a lot, isnt wrong but yes it has a good rate of fire.
Hasnt the effective range the MG34's round does but is not supposed to either, but up close eh yea kind of similar in loose way i suppose?

Mas 38 does have a good ROF too, just cant hit things with it at the moment.
It and the MP34 need to visit the neurologist together :) 

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2 hours ago, merlin51 said:

Really?  Your glasses are way better than mine then, i'd barely be able to see you to aim at you at 300m, you'd be under the gunsight.
Id be lucky if i sprayed, prayed to all the gods i could name, and hit you with something.
I might hit you, but it sure wont be due to skill or accuracy on my part and mostly just bad luck on your part.
 

 

Attrocious meaning wrong or just meaning a lot?
the US M1 is probably very close to the MG34, around 800rpm, the brits older M1928 model is a little bit slower.
So yes, it is a lot, isnt wrong but yes it has a good rate of fire.
Hasnt the effective range the MG34's round does but is not supposed to either, but up close eh yea kind of similar in loose way i suppose?

Mas 38 does have a good ROF too, just cant hit things with it at the moment.
It and the MP34 need to visit the neurologist together :) 

Just went to offline mode and repeated this test out to 500 meters with targets and space bar placed EI.  I wish I had FRAPS on my machine.  I hit everything out 500.  To include targets and EI.

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4 hours ago, saronin said:

Just went to offline mode and repeated this test out to 500 meters with targets and space bar placed EI.  I wish I had FRAPS on my machine.  I hit everything out 500.  To include targets and EI.

so download fraps?
they have a free version

Not to mention both Nvidia and AMD have game recording software for their video cards free

Need better excuse

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8 hours ago, saronin said:

Just went to offline mode and repeated this test out to 500 meters with targets and space bar placed EI.  I wish I had FRAPS on my machine.  I hit everything out 500.  To include targets and EI.

Get Bandicam. Way better than fraps. You can record up to 10 minutes at a clip. Great capturing software. 

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Bandicam, good recorder with good trial option.

Open Broadcast Software/OBS, nice free to use option that if you have 2 monitors will do picture in picture.

if you have a NVidia then shadowplay through GeForce experience, neat DVR type free recorder.

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