• Announcements

    • BLKHWK8

      Squad Rat Chats   06/28/2018

      We will be having an Axis Squad and Allied Squad Rat Chat next month.  Please join us for a meeting with @XOOM @HATCH and @OHM to touch base with the Rats to go on a QA session.  Axis Squad Chat - July 28, 2018 2pm Server Time Allied Squad Chat - July 29, 2018 2pm Server Time.
Ltarflak

this is some BS...

75 posts in this topic

DB7/Havoc durability is a question of HE effectiveness (receiving an audit) vs its damage model.

Let's see what happens with the HE changes and then check into the damage model if necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, chaoswzkd said:

DB7/Havoc durability is a question of HE effectiveness (receiving an audit) vs its damage model.

Let's see what happens with the HE changes and then check into the damage model if necessary.

When everything else in the game that flies dies easily to 40mm HE, except the db7/havoc and spitfire series, I don't think it's the HE at fault. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

DB7/Havoc durability is a question of HE effectiveness (receiving an audit) vs its damage model.

Let's see what happens with the HE changes and then check into the damage model if necessary.

Not an HE problem. It's the DM. Another thing that's been documented and griped about in here since the dawn of time

Edited by jester
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, jester said:

Not an HE problem. It's the DM. Another thing that's been documented and griped about in here since the dawn of time

Is It?  If the ammo doesn't behave properly - the best damage model would show inaccuracies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sajuk said:

Stats say only 1 Spifire Kill with a He111

 

 

That's cause it was not this map - ask BB. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ltarflak said:

Well f*ck, you might as well just get rid of the tail gun. I dont think tail guns weren't this sh*tty in ww2. The tail guns are pathetic.  If your being chased you might as well let em kill you, the guns are useless. If tail guns were this a$$ then why did bombers add mg's to protect there planes. Add new mg's or buff em up. Im tired of axis equipment not "working".

Well, mechanically the MG is ok.
I mean if you set it and the offending plane in a stationary position, and aimed at the pilots head in the upstairs window
yea he'd die, 1 hit poof good night.

But he is moving, and you are moving, which adds all kinds of lead and compensation into things.
Factor single gun barrel and firing rate into that.
You are also trying to fly the plane, and manage the tail gunner etc, which adds more work overload to the situation.
And you are trying to get a BB into the small upper window and take out the pilot during all this, as the big lump of glass in the nose only has the bombardier
sitting in it, but you want the little jerk up top controlling the forward machine guns.

Also factor in the guy you are shooting at kind of has 0 reason to fear death so unlike real life, he isnt trying to dodge your BB's like a maniac
and probably has little to no compassion for the life of his bombardier.

Bombers added MG's because anything is better than nothing.
Their gunners were probably usually more skilled than you or I on leading etc
The enemy pilots had a fear of being shot in the face, that we do not have
And bombers tended to fly in formations to aggregate defensive fire so instead of 1 little tailgunner, you now have 8 little tail gunners shooting at you.
Look at how B17's formed in flight

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, B2K said:

Is It?  If the ammo doesn't behave properly - the best damage model would show inaccuracies.

Absolutely the DM. Never really thought there was much of an issue with ammo particularly A2A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jester said:

Absolutely the DM. Never really thought there was much of an issue with ammo particularly A2A

I dunno if id rule out ammo not behaving

4 bofors rounds to tail of a stuka should drop it like a fly
or an H75 for that matter, and yet a lot of times you get POOF POOF POOF, but the plane lives.
It may be flying on max trims and 90% stick throw, but its still flying.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, B2K said:

Is It?  If the ammo doesn't behave properly - the best damage model would show inaccuracies.

You missed mosi's point... He is saying the same AMMO damages most planes as expected, whereas some are prone to just fly away....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, fufubear1f said:

I don't see anything wrong with LW planes in regards to allied planes.  I can also get kills with the e4 fairly easy with minimal cannon rounds.

It was proven when FMS's were being taken down with one pass by allied cannons. We tested and it took over 5x as many 110 cannons to do it. The 20mm cannons on allied aircraft are far more powerful than the axis planes. That is why enemy planes take so much damage from the 20mm of axis....the axis cannons are nerfed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, y0mario said:

It was proven when FMS's were being taken down with one pass by allied cannons. We tested and it took over 5x as many 110 cannons to do it. The 20mm cannons on allied aircraft are far more powerful than the axis planes. That is why enemy planes take so much damage from the 20mm of axis....the axis cannons are nerfed

Actually they both overperform - by pretty close to the same amount - it's being corrected in the HE/KE audits.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, B2K said:

Is It?  If the ammo doesn't behave properly - the best damage model would show inaccuracies.

So explain why everything else dies to 40mm very easily but the db7/spitfire series doesn't...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

***  So explain why everything else dies to 40mm very easily

True statement, DDs sink to bofors 40mm for crying out loud.......

Yet they bounce off a spit or bomber?

 

And I've seen many panzers destroyed by bofors 40mm too; it ain't the gun.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

So explain why everything else dies to 40mm very easily but the db7/spitfire series doesn't...

 

Spitfire Mk Ia 22 19 1.16 Feb 11 07:30 53,853 21,425 2.51
Spitfire Mk IIb 10 7 1.43 Feb 12 18:25 19,569 12,234 1.6
DB-7 53 159 0.33 Feb 12 18:35 64,824 192,884 0.34

DB-7 don't know

Spitfire though - stats would seem to show that the 40mm flak kills more than it dies to especially the spit 1

Though the under-performing 40mm (all nations) is also getting fixed in the HE/KW audit.  Of course so are bombs - so the DB7 may end up being more lethal as a result... 

Will definitely be interesting 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think everyone will be glad once the audit is in place, regardless of the outcome.

Barring any coding/data bugs, it will be what it will be - and hopefully it is historical.

I think most will accept that.

 

But, just because the HE and weapons are correct, it doesn't meant the DM is correct on the unit that it is impacting.

 

Edited by delems
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, delems said:

I think everyone will be glad once the audit is in place, regardless of the outcome.

Barring any coding bugs, it will be what it will be - and hopefully it is historical.

I think most will accept that.

 

But, just because the HE and weapons are correct, it doesn't meant the DM is correct on the unit that it is impacting.

 

and once one side of the equation is accurate then the other can be looked at - at the moment it's very possible that both the ammo and the aircraft are jacked up - but due to the current state it's impossible to know if the issue is caused by the ammo, the model, or a combo of both. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, y0mario said:

It was proven when FMS's were being taken down with one pass by allied cannons. We tested and it took over 5x as many 110 cannons to do it. The 20mm cannons on allied aircraft are far more powerful than the axis planes. That is why enemy planes take so much damage from the 20mm of axis....the axis cannons are nerfed

5x is incorrect.. H2C cannons took out an FMS with about 112 20mm.. The 110 took about 160 20mm to take out an FMS.. It’s now moot though as neither will take out an FMS..

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** It’s now moot though as neither will take out an FMS..

It might be moot in regards to taking down an FMS.

But, obviously the allied cannons are still more powerful than the axis ones (as proven by the FMS), is that historically correct?
 

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, B2K said:
Spitfire Mk Ia 22 19 1.16 Feb 11 07:30 53,853 21,425 2.51
Spitfire Mk IIb 10 7 1.43 Feb 12 18:25 19,569 12,234 1.6
DB-7 53 159 0.33 Feb 12 18:35 64,824 192,884 0.34

DB-7 don't know

Spitfire though - stats would seem to show that the 40mm flak kills more than it dies to especially the spit 1

Though the under-performing 40mm (all nations) is also getting fixed in the HE/KW audit.  Of course so are bombs - so the DB7 may end up being more lethal as a result... 

Will definitely be interesting 

This doesn't really mean anything here particularly considering how often the two units meet Db7/Spit vs. bofors

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, delems said:

But, obviously the allied cannons are still way more powerful than the axis ones (as proven by the FMS), is that historically correct?

minor nitpick
The HE round in the belting, i dont believe the FMS took any damage from the AP rounds? (If they did then nevermind cause it just got complicated)
So two things to look at.
Typical axis belting make up as opposed to allied belting make up as they were different
Find how many HE rounds in the 112 and 160 rounds respectively
then you can work outwards from there
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SCKING said:

5x is incorrect.. H2C cannons took out an FMS with about 112 20mm.. The 110 took about 160 20mm to take out an FMS.. It’s now moot though as neither will take out an FMS..

When we tested it was 70 for hurc2c and 180 for 110

And how is it a moot point for fighters? you know, when you lay into an allied plane and it takes a ridiculous amount of 20mm  and it flies off and one pass on an axis plane with 20mm lays it to waste.

Keep down playing it though, that's what company guys do instead of fixing it.

And btw, deleting my posts about it just makes it look worse

Edited by y0mario

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, y0mario said:

Keep down playing it though, that's what company guys do instead of fixing it.

And btw, deleting my posts about it just makes it look worse

except we are fixing it, and you've got a post in this very thread discussing the issue....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although not the fastest or longest-range aircraft in its class, the Douglas DB-7 series distinguished itself as a tough, dependable combat aircraft with an excellent reputation for speed and maneuverability. In a report to the British Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (AAEE) at RAF Boscombe Down, test pilots summed it up as: "has no vices and is very easy to take off and land ... The aeroplane represents a definite advantage in the design of flying controls ... extremely pleasant to fly and manoeuvre." Ex-pilots often consider it their favorite aircraft of the war due to the ability to toss it around like a fighter. The Douglas bomber/night fighter was found to be extremely adaptable and found a role in every combat theater of the war, and excelled as a true "pilot's aeroplane".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-20_Havoc

 

I wonder which one of you edited the A-20 Wiki Page to read as if it was describing the A-20 of WWII Online, @jester @bogol @Mosizlak.   REAL FUNNEH GUYS!  Oh wait...

 

The A-20 was also the direct predecessor of the A-26, an aircraft so well-designed that it served with the USAF into the Vietnam War...

Edited by Capco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.