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      Squad Rat Chats   06/28/2018

      We will be having an Axis Squad and Allied Squad Rat Chat next month.  Please join us for a meeting with @XOOM @HATCH and @OHM to touch base with the Rats to go on a QA session.  Axis Squad Chat - July 28, 2018 2pm Server Time Allied Squad Chat - July 29, 2018 2pm Server Time.
Ltarflak

this is some BS...

75 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Capco said:

Although not the fastest or longest-range aircraft in its class, the Douglas DB-7 series distinguished itself as a tough, dependable combat aircraft with an excellent reputation for speed and maneuverability. In a report to the British Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (AAEE) at RAF Boscombe Down, test pilots summed it up as: "has no vices and is very easy to take off and land ... The aeroplane represents a definite advantage in the design of flying controls ... extremely pleasant to fly and manoeuvre." Ex-pilots often consider it their favorite aircraft of the war due to the ability to toss it around like a fighter. The Douglas bomber/night fighter was found to be extremely adaptable and found a role in every combat theater of the war, and excelled as a true "pilot's aeroplane".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-20_Havoc

 

I wonder which one of you edited the A-20 Wiki Page to read as if it was describing the A-20 of WWII Online, @jester @bogol @Mosizlak.   REAL FUNNEH GUYS!  Oh wait...

 

The A-20 was also the direct predecessor of the A-26, an aircraft so well-designed that it served with the USAF into the Vietnam War...

You point is?

There are plenty of planes with tough/durable reputations which are modeled in this game. But a buggy DM is a buggy DM, enough hours combatting the units will quickly help you learn what's wrong and what's not. It is a tough plane but the DM is flawed. Tell me, have you ever flown another flight sim which modeled the A-20 and engaged them regularly? I have. It's evident WWIIOL has a different way of thinking regarding how the tail and wings are damaged.

One thing in common with A-20 DM defenders: You all either heavily use the unit, or have relatively little to no experience in the LW persona. Search the Hangar back to the introduction of the unit FFS and you'll note axis pilots with experience under their belt that eclipses mine complaining about the same thing. I even made a comparison video about it a ways back.

Regardless, it'll be audited, hopefully soon...but let's not try to pretend it's fine...lol

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5 minutes ago, jester said:

You point is?

There are plenty of planes with tough/durable reputations which are modeled in this game. But a buggy DM is a buggy DM, enough hours combatting the units will quickly help you learn what's wrong and what's not. It is a tough plane but the DM is flawed. Tell me, have you ever flown another flight sim which modeled the A-20 and engaged them regularly? I have. It's evident WWIIOL has a different way of thinking regarding how the tail and wings are damaged.

One thing in common with A-20 DM defenders: You all either heavily use the unit, or have relatively little to no experience in the LW persona. Search the Hangar back to the introduction of the unit FFS and you'll note axis pilots with experience under their belt that eclipses mine complaining about the same thing. I even made a comparison video about it a ways back.

Regardless, it'll be audited, hopefully soon...but let's not try to pretend it's fine...lol

I'm not pretending it's fine.  I want it to be looked at.

 

All I'm saying is don't be surprised if it's still a tough cookie with great flight characteristics afterwards.

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11 minutes ago, Capco said:

I'm not pretending it's fine.  I want it to be looked at.

 

All I'm saying is don't be surprised if it's still a tough cookie with great flight characteristics afterwards.

The only thing I'll be surprised about is when the damn thing is fixed, along with all other DMs that need attention, and if I'm still even playing this game at that time

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10 minutes ago, jester said:

The only thing I'll be surprised about is when the damn thing is fixed, along with all other DMs that need attention, and if I'm still even playing this game at that time

Lol.  

/thread

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5 hours ago, y0mario said:

When we tested it was 70 for hurc2c and 180 for 110

And how is it a moot point for fighters? you know, when you lay into an allied plane and it takes a ridiculous amount of 20mm  and it flies off and one pass on an axis plane with 20mm lays it to waste.

Keep down playing it though, that's what company guys do instead of fixing it.

And btw, deleting my posts about it just makes it look worse

So how did you come up with 5x more if those were the numbers your testing brought up?  Not downplaying anything, putting it in the proper perspective rather than the puffed up perspective you are trying to portray and an HE audit is right around the corner so again your wrong about not trying to fix it. 

 

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Fwiw, 20 mm fired by the Hispano imparts rather more KE than German 20 mm MG FF Minengeschoss. Which is historically accurate.

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3 hours ago, jester said:

iif I'm still even playing this game at that time

Nonsense..........this is life

 

S!

l

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16 hours ago, bmbm said:

Fwiw, 20 mm fired by the Hispano imparts rather more KE than German 20 mm MG FF Minengeschoss. Which is historically accurate.

What is your point? Trying to say that the 20mm cannon on the axis planes were not effective and that much more weaker in bringing down a plane? Nice try.

But seeming you want to go down the 'historical accuracy' lane, maybe you can tell me why the allies get a sherman76 from 1944? Right....for 'balance'

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8 hours ago, y0mario said:

maybe you can tell me why the allies get a sherman76 from 1944? Right....for 'balance'

Partly cause need other T4 units to go with it, Partly because tiger lacks a proper entry and distribution mechanic (Which also prevents it from appearing in T2 like it should)
it's ammo isnt buffed though, nor is 88 nerfed, which is what you seem to be hinting for?

It's one thing to say hey we are going to put A and B together temporarily because we need a better mechanic for them to be in their own places.
Its another to say we are going to gimp A and buff B
 

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1 minute ago, merlin51 said:


Its another to say we are going to gimp A and buff B
 

Not sure what you mean.  Can you say this another way so I can understand, I'm getting a few interpretations and unsure which is correct.

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13 minutes ago, stankyus said:

Not sure what you mean.  Can you say this another way so I can understand, I'm getting a few interpretations and unsure which is correct.


Problem:
Have Tiger I modeled, lack proper mechanism to place into game in its proper timeline with out it becoming a game breaking unit
due to no current mechanism being able to do a limited localization in proper fashion.

GIMP solution:
reduce tiger armor to that of PZIII and nerf tigers 88 to fire PZIV 75mm

BUFF solution:
bump M4A2 armor to 120mm
change gun from 75mm to late war 90mm M3 firing T33 APC

 

Best temp solution:
delay tiger entry and bump up M1 gunned sherman entry so they come in together and adjust supply numbers for best temporary compromise
until more suitable mechanics can be worked out at which point simply return the non buffed/gimped units to their respective timelines

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On 2/11/2018 at 6:00 PM, merlin51 said:

Well, you hit him with BB's, single stream of BB's at that.
I'm not sure if you hit the cockpit, could not tell from video, looks like you sprayed the engine and parts of the fuselage.
Have to hit the pilot himself though, you could put 40 rounds into the wiring and radio etc on any plane and it doesn't have much effect. 

Think you might have hit someones bombardier though?

Bombardier in front
Pilot upstairs

A-20_Havoc.jpg
a20-12a.jpg

the He111 did not have BB's, the Stuka does.

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When the audit comes out i can not wait to hear how it sucks because i can not kill the way i use to so it must be bad or wrong. ... This change coming is going to be a huge surprise to a lot of players.  

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28 minutes ago, OHM said:

When the audit comes out i can not wait to hear how it sucks because i can not kill the way i use to so it must be bad or wrong. ... This change coming is going to be a huge surprise to a lot of players.  

this and 'OMG xxxx  is Hacking HE KILLZ ME IN 1 SHOTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'     <- though this is already a pretty common .report (to include the spelling)

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2 hours ago, odolf said:

the He111 did not have BB's, the Stuka does.

? confused
HE-111 has mg gunners

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20 hours ago, merlin51 said:


Problem:
Have Tiger I modeled, lack proper mechanism to place into game in its proper timeline with out it becoming a game breaking unit
due to no current mechanism being able to do a limited localization in proper fashion.

GIMP solution:
reduce tiger armor to that of PZIII and nerf tigers 88 to fire PZIV 75mm

BUFF solution:
bump M4A2 armor to 120mm
change gun from 75mm to late war 90mm M3 firing T33 APC

 

Best temp solution:
delay tiger entry and bump up M1 gunned sherman entry so they come in together and adjust supply numbers for best temporary compromise
until more suitable mechanics can be worked out at which point simply return the non buffed/gimped units to their respective timelines

So basically what happened with the Pak36 ammo and HEAT? Or increasing the Tiger numbers with to match that of the S76? Or match the M10 numbers with the StugG?  All buff, no gimp.

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4 hours ago, stankyus said:

So basically what happened with the Pak36 ammo and HEAT? Or increasing the Tiger numbers with to match that of the S76? Or match the M10 numbers with the StugG?  All buff, no gimp.

none of those is buffing anything
Pak 36 ammo isnt buffed, Pak 36 actually lost PzGr.40 because there wasn't a viable means of controlling what is a very rare ammo type for ALL sides.
Tungsten being much needed in the machining industry that was making the weapons.
(people would spawn, shoot all the AP40 and despawn, over and over)

HEAT i dont know, you'd have to be bit more specific.

Tiger I and S76 match up isnt a buff of anything.
It is a temporary artificial match up simply because the mechanics for doing it properly dont exist. 
Yet.

It is not perfect, but it's better than the alternative perhaps, which would be to put the tiger in mothballs until some point in the future.
No one likes to be given a toy then have it taken away when they didnt do anything wrong.

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7 hours ago, merlin51 said:

none of those is buffing anything
Pak 36 ammo isnt buffed, Pak 36 actually lost PzGr.40 because there wasn't a viable means of controlling what is a very rare ammo type for ALL sides.
Tungsten being much needed in the machining industry that was making the weapons.
(people would spawn, shoot all the AP40 and despawn, over and over)

HEAT i dont know, you'd have to be bit more specific.

Tiger I and S76 match up isnt a buff of anything.
It is a temporary artificial match up simply because the mechanics for doing it properly dont exist. 
Yet.

It is not perfect, but it's better than the alternative perhaps, which would be to put the tiger in mothballs until some point in the future.
No one likes to be given a toy then have it taken away when they didnt do anything wrong.

I'm sorry, you think the S76 vrs tiger are a match up? How do they match up? Armor? Sites? Gun? Range finder? KD? Why are they in at the same numbers? You don't remember DOC giving the pak36 "the best performing ammo, from a penetration table they found" but refusing to say were it came from or what the figure was? What about the HEAT rounds incredible performance? That's not a buff? What about the decision to make the stugG at the same numbers as the M10.  Would you call putting the matty in at the same numbers as the 4d and stugb a buff or gimp?  Seriously the bs only goes so far.

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1 hour ago, stankyus said:

I'm sorry, you think the S76 vrs tiger are a match up? How do they match up? Armor? Sites? Gun? Range finder? KD? Why are they in at the same numbers? You don't remember DOC giving the pak36 "the best performing ammo, from a penetration table they found" but refusing to say were it came from or what the figure was? What about the HEAT rounds incredible performance? That's not a buff? What about the decision to make the stugG at the same numbers as the M10.  Would you call putting the matty in at the same numbers as the 4d and stugb a buff or gimp?  Seriously the bs only goes so far.

The silly way degunning is handled in this game alone is enough to push both vehicles together. The tiger has some really large hitbox for its gun and its hitpoints are so low that the french 47mm ATG can degun it in one shot from the front. Then there's the overwhelming emphasis on close range combat that this game has. 

 

Also the S76 is matched up roughly with the Tiger 1 in both World of tanks (both tier VI vehicles) and the War Thunder. And those games actually have longer range combat, and don't have so many externalities, such as the tiger being one of the most bombable axis tanks and the shermans being the most difficult in game to bomb, or the tiger being frontally vulnerable to lower-tier ATGs out to several hundred meters with the S76 easily shrugging off frontal hits from the pak 38. So I don't see why you continue to sperg out about this when people think that an advanced medium tank from 1944 squares up with a heavy tank from 1942. Maybe if the map was turned back to wide open areas with 4km view distance and we had mapwide armor movements, but not now with everything so close together.

 

A lot of the performance ingame doesn't correlate at all with what's on paper due to [censored] modeling or game decisions, for instance the 250kg bombs on the He111 are actually worse for bombing tanks than the 100kg bombs of the DB7 due to the higher blast while still requiring a direct hit. I still think that if the Ju88 is ever modeled it will be a larger, slower, overall worse version of the Me110 that's already ingame due to the way damage is applied to wings and the lack of any stress modeling.

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1 hour ago, stankyus said:

I'm sorry, you think the S76 vrs tiger are a match up? How do they match up? Armor? Sites? Gun? Range finder? KD? Why are they in at the same numbers? You don't remember DOC giving the pak36 "the best performing ammo, from a penetration table they found" but refusing to say were it came from or what the figure was? What about the HEAT rounds incredible performance? That's not a buff? What about the decision to make the stugG at the same numbers as the M10.  Would you call putting the matty in at the same numbers as the 4d and stugb a buff or gimp?  Seriously the bs only goes so far.

There never is a perfect matchup
Allies never will have a "matchup" for the tiger or konig tiger for that matter, they just buried the axis in an unmatchable never ending supply of shermans
and people to drive them and ammo to shoot out of them and fuel to power them, and an insane amount of bombers and an entire russian front to make sure they never got unburied.
76mm sherman is simply whats close enough.


there is no buff no gimp no nerf there, do you know what the words mean?
No one went welding extra armor on the tiger, or grinding half of it off the sherman, or dumping 3 ounces of propellant out of the cases etc
 

 

Here, buy book, read the rest
then come more books, and reports, then you have giant pile

uM9IQNP.jpg

VQQPea3.jpg

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37 minutes ago, david01 said:

The silly way degunning is handled in this game alone is enough to push both vehicles together. The tiger has some really large hitbox for its gun and its hitpoints are so low that the french 47mm ATG can degun it in one shot from the front. Then there's the overwhelming emphasis on close range combat that this game has. 

The "hitbox" is the size of the gun, what you are looking at is what you hit, and the french 47mm atg has enough KE to wreck most any gun tube in T0 it is second only to the 88, thats not a problem.
Problem is, the crew should have lumps in their shorts the size of cinder blocks for contemplating even attempting it, let alone willingly being that close to a tiger
In game no one does.
If you miss, oh well, hold down trigger and keep shooting, if you die oh well, respawn and try it again.


 

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2 hours ago, david01 said:

The silly way degunning is handled in this game alone is enough to push both vehicles together. The tiger has some really large hitbox for its gun and its hitpoints are so low that the french 47mm ATG can degun it in one shot from the front. Then there's the overwhelming emphasis on close range combat that this game has. 

 

Also the S76 is matched up roughly with the Tiger 1 in both World of tanks (both tier VI vehicles) and the War Thunder. And those games actually have longer range combat, and don't have so many externalities, such as the tiger being one of the most bombable axis tanks and the shermans being the most difficult in game to bomb, or the tiger being frontally vulnerable to lower-tier ATGs out to several hundred meters with the S76 easily shrugging off frontal hits from the pak 38. So I don't see why you continue to sperg out about this when people think that an advanced medium tank from 1944 squares up with a heavy tank from 1942. Maybe if the map was turned back to wide open areas with 4km view distance and we had mapwide armor movements, but not now with everything so close together.

 

A lot of the performance ingame doesn't correlate at all with what's on paper due to [censored] modeling or game decisions, for instance the 250kg bombs on the He111 are actually worse for bombing tanks than the 100kg bombs of the DB7 due to the higher blast while still requiring a direct hit. I still think that if the Ju88 is ever modeled it will be a larger, slower, overall worse version of the Me110 that's already ingame due to the way damage is applied to wings and the lack of any stress modeling.

Omg, how do I talk to you. I'll say this, not personal, but you are full of complete bs, mixed with some facts. I don't think it's lost on the allied pb that the axis subs far outweigh the allied subs. What I do know is that priority is very apparent, is not even complicated and you all treat us like complete idiots. We are not. However we do love this game. You all need to make sure you keep tha Axis as sexy as possible to keep those subs but it's ridiculous now. I don't think you really have a grasp on the damage it's done. The less allied that want to play, the less fun it is for the axis, and you all will start to bleed your bread and butter. ITS A FKED UP MODEL. And it's not lost on me. I'm not that smart. However I'm not alone, I don't like being treated like a complete idiot, matter of fact nothing makes me angrier. KNOW on your sacred honor, tell me I am wrong.

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13 hours ago, stankyus said:

Omg, how do I talk to you. I'll say this, not personal, but you are full of complete bs, mixed with some facts. I don't think it's lost on the allied pb that the axis subs far outweigh the allied subs. What I do know is that priority is very apparent, is not even complicated and you all treat us like complete idiots. We are not. However we do love this game. You all need to make sure you keep tha Axis as sexy as possible to keep those subs but it's ridiculous now. I don't think you really have a grasp on the damage it's done. The less allied that want to play, the less fun it is for the axis, and you all will start to bleed your bread and butter. ITS A FKED UP MODEL. And it's not lost on me. I'm not that smart. However I'm not alone, I don't like being treated like a complete idiot, matter of fact nothing makes me angrier. KNOW on your sacred honor, tell me I am wrong.

I’m calling bs here stankyus. What your are seeing is an overall reduction in total numbers, not an Allied only reduction. Seen a lot DDZ in game lately?  How about Blitz Kader?  Squads that used to put up 30 to 50 now put up under 10 on a squad night. Discord during prime time is closely populated so I have a feeling the Axis are dominating one or both of the other time zones numbers wise to tip the game. Overall though I would bet organized vet numbers are down just about everywhere on both sides. I don’t get to see the server numbers though so who knows. 

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13 hours ago, stankyus said:

Omg, how do I talk to you. I'll say this, not personal, but you are full of complete bs, mixed with some facts. I don't think it's lost on the allied pb that the axis subs far outweigh the allied subs. What I do know is that priority is very apparent, is not even complicated and you all treat us like complete idiots. We are not. However we do love this game. You all need to make sure you keep tha Axis as sexy as possible to keep those subs but it's ridiculous now. I don't think you really have a grasp on the damage it's done. The less allied that want to play, the less fun it is for the axis, and you all will start to bleed your bread and butter. ITS A FKED UP MODEL. And it's not lost on me. I'm not that smart. However I'm not alone, I don't like being treated like a complete idiot, matter of fact nothing makes me angrier. KNOW on your sacred honor, tell me I am wrong.

Why would you even bother with what this 300kills-in-career noob thinks lol

This guy has no real in game experience, yet hes been talking through his arse for years in the F2P forums. 

Edited by Lob12

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23 minutes ago, Lob12 said:

Why would you even bother with what this 300kills-in-career noob thinks lol

This guy has no real in game experience, yet hes been talking through his arse for years in the F2P forums. 

Don’t waste your breath. I’ve suggested actually playing the game might help in the past.  

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