sixpence

Cap timers and AO's

36 posts in this topic

I have heard on the grapevine that the timers are longer? And it is different for overpop and underpop?.

I am for shorter timers, as for the fun is capturing depots and towns. I also feel that timers should be shorter for attacking forces. Look, the brigades are balanced, and you need more numbers when you are attacking, so I feel the attacking force needs a little help.

How many hours do we play at a stalemate? Trying to capture a depot when the enemy can spawn in right at the capture point? I say if attackers can hold the depot for 60 seconds, let them have it. I think recap should be longer for the defenders. It would be one thing if there were no AO limits, then I could see longer timers. But to spend a Friday or Saturday evening at a stalemate is no fun. Yeah, there are good battles, but in the end you would like to capture a town if you have worked hard at it. That's what the game is about, capturing towns. The map seems to move more at low population, when it should be moving at high population.

Now about AO's, and I am just throwing this out there. Why not have an AO for the navy and airforce? Or at least the navy. We have a lot of guys that like to play with the naval aspect of the game, and we need a way for new players to rank up. Could each branch have an AO limit? Or can the navy be granted it's own AO? One that is separate from the army's limit? We have these wonderful transports that go to waste, it's a shame. Give the navy it's own AO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OLDZEKE said:

Way too slow. Four players-60 seconds.

And again, the underpop getting faster timers....missing the boat. They are adding to the stalemate. Give the attacking force the faster timer. Prime time is capping a spawn, having the spawn camped....over and over again with towns not getting captured. There is too much of an advantage to the defense when there is high population. We can fight for hours and not have a town capped.  With such a large map, when population is high it should be moving. The way it is now, when the server is low pop the map moves...it's backwards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well heres the deal

Instead of 1 or 2 here and 1 or 2 there, cap as a team......5+ players and try to hold the cap.

If it's not working out i'm positive they'll adjust it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is this teamwork you talk about??

 

..next you will want combined arms and atgs brought in with trucks!

SCANDALOUS!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in your mind you want quick campaigns with the OP side getting an advantage, and then come in to complain why you never see tier 2 or 3?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/20/2018 at 4:57 PM, sixpence said:

I am for shorter timers, as for the fun is capturing depots and towns. I also feel that timers should be shorter for attacking forces. Look, the brigades are balanced, and you need more numbers when you are attacking, so I feel the attacking force needs a little help.

You have to think this through more though.
When sides are unbalanced, who attacks?

Over pop. Because the over pop side can afford to have an attacking and a defending force
They can also more afford to stick multiple persons in the capture zone.

If you play your scenario out they will also get a faster cap timer, which will just roll the underpop more.

Attacking specifically needs no special concessions really, attacking is hard, it is supposed to be hard.
If it was easier to attack than defend, the real world would be seriously messed up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 8:01 PM, sixpence said:

Way too slow. Four players-60 seconds.

And again, the underpop getting faster timers....missing the boat. They are adding to the stalemate. Give the attacking force the faster timer. Prime time is capping a spawn, having the spawn camped....over and over again with towns not getting captured. There is too much of an advantage to the defense when there is high population. We can fight for hours and not have a town capped.  With such a large map, when population is high it should be moving. The way it is now, when the server is low pop the map moves...it's backwards

Allied losses: It took these amount of days for the campaign

  • Camp 151 =  ALLIED loss only took 13 days.
  • Camp 150  = 30 days
  • Camp 149  = 15 days 
  • Camp 148  = 22 days
  • Camp 147  = 07 days

 

What stalemate? Longest map has been 30 days for the last 10 maps.

Guess you weren't around when we had a map last 1/2 year back in the day.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, imded said:

Guess you weren't around when we had a map last 1/2 year back in the day.

Talk about the good ole days..........

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@sixpence Don't forget that cap timers are also scaled down the more players are simultaneously capping a facility. This is naturally far more of a buff to overpop than underpop, because overpop can afford to fill up a cp with more bodies.

So the changes to lengthen the timers for overpop is compensated by the fact that overpop can have more people simultaneously capping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, imded said:

Guess you weren't around when we had a map last 1/2 year back in the day.

Longest map ( I think ) was Campaign 33 - 11/10/06 - 2/19/07  101 days of combat.

What I would give to see that again. 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Five minutes to capture a single point when the game has maybe 25 vs 25 in an average battle now is suicide. Also makes it very difficult for the defender to recap once the caps do start. And "overpop" is maybe a ten player advantage now, it's not 2009 when the overpop side could have 50 more players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep agree, 5 min is way to long for a capture.

Max 3 minutes for 1 person.

Or make it scale way faster; if 1 takes 5 min;  then 5 should take 1 minute.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, delems said:

Yep agree, 5 min is way to long for a capture.

Max 3 minutes for 1 person.

Or make it scale way faster; if 1 takes 5 min;  then 5 should take 1 minute.

 

If you can get 5 infantry in a CP you should be rewarded with a real fast capture timer (adjusted for over/under pop of course), and it would promote para drops. 

I'm fine with the solo cap being long to cut down on the moling, but team work should be rewarded. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about we test first the current changes then we consider if it works or what needs changing.

Think this is a good step in the case of the OP side you can always coordinate and use teamwork you will have more numbers so in theory you still will have an advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

How about we test first the current changes then we consider if it works or what needs changing.

Think this is a good step in the case of the OP side you can always coordinate and use teamwork you will have more numbers so in theory you still will have an advantage.

Absolutely, let this campaign play out and see the results. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

How about we test first the current changes then we consider if it works or what needs changing.

Think this is a good step in the case of the OP side you can always coordinate and use teamwork you will have more numbers so in theory you still will have an advantage.

Wow @pbveteran,  I think this is one of the first posts I've seen you make that I agree with right out the gate. More of this!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** test first the current changes

Doesn't apply, because the current changes have nothing to do with cap times;  they have to do with variable cap times for under/over pop.

Not the base cap times if even pop.  That is why.

The base case takes to long, 5 min for 1 capper is excruciatingly long.

Agree to test out the variable capture times, but the base case ( i.e. even sides) has capture times that are too long.

 

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason I bring it up is because many times I do drive a truck to set up an FMS, and I see the frustration with not being able to capture. I am all for 4-5 people being rewarded with a shorter timer, although I would like to see it shorter.

Now let's be honest, the fast campaigns are usually the result of cut offs when no HC are on and it demoralizes a side and towns are being capped with no resistance. I have seen this many times. 

 I agree the timer should change on population, but be kept equal on both sides. i.e., under 50 players and the timer is how it is now...50-100 it drops 25%...100-150 it drops another 25%. That is just an example.  I say let the over pop side attack and cap, as population swings back and forth. It's hard enough to cap a spawn, and it's even harder to hold it, and it's compounded when you give the defense a shorter timer.  I just don't see the reasoning in making it harder to capture a town, not with a map the size we have that is expected to get bigger. Ten years or more ago US prime time had the allies over pop every night, and they would cap a town or two. Then the 'breakfast club' would cap 20 towns in the morning. It's not like that any more, and the axis have over pop US prime time just as much if not more. There is a nice ebb and flow now.

Teamwork is big in this game, and I understand that. But it is so hard to get new players on the same page. Discord is just not doing it, can't get them on it. Maybe when we get in game voice communication...like aces high has, then maybe we can get these new players to at least hear what we are telling them and get them to the places they need to be.  

Also, may I add it would be nice to be able to set more than one FMS on a mission. What I usually do is ask someone to take the mission and I make another mission to set up another one, but it would be nice if I could set up two on one mission.

Xoom mentioned towns with more than one AB being owned in sections, with the attacking force being able to move a brigade in the town and spawn at the captured AB...looking forward to that.

I am not saying the game is broken or out of whack, and maybe what the changes they made are the cure all. I am just putting in my two cents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with this game right now on allied side is no one listens they don't want to take orders or play as a team I tried to do a co-op last night and no one would listen I told them don't run into town yet it will just make axis defend harder but every person who spawned  ran right in and were in cps before we could even cap 1 at a time like lemmings and they died every time then are spawn was found out before we could even do anything.............

There has to be a leader and followers not just random people running around shooting anything they see. Sometimes its better to not be seen or shoot at that at gun ect... if you want to cap the only way is TEAMWORK!!!!

Malvoc out.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started in 2012. and since that time at least,  I can only remember a handful of times when the Allies in TZ3 were not underpopped. At best, Allies were usually able to try to hold on and not get completely rolled. Generally speaking, while the "Breakfast Club" hasn't really been around for a long time, the 250 and Co. have been a seriously credible replacement.
 

I have rarely ever been able to play prime time, but I can tell you that there is not much ebb and flow that I have seen in TZ3.

Making it easier for attackers than defenders would make a really hard situation virtually impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why not just make the depot capture timer 30 minutes then? That would really force the attacker to use teamwork and combined arms. It would also prevent map movement during TZ3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

I started in 2012. and since that time at least,  I can only remember a handful of times when the Allies in TZ3 were not underpopped. At best, Allies were usually able to try to hold on and not get completely rolled. Generally speaking, while the "Breakfast Club" hasn't really been around for a long time, the 250 and Co. have been a seriously credible replacement.
 

I have rarely ever been able to play prime time, but I can tell you that there is not much ebb and flow that I have seen in TZ3.

Making it easier for attackers than defenders would make a really hard situation virtually impossible.

The mistakes of the past.  They will just be repeated.  Idiotic features like ridiculously loud trucks were added to combat this one time zone.  The new CRS will venture down that road as well.  Implementing asinine stuff that all time zones get to put up with just have the appearance of balance in time zone 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, XOOM said:

Wow @pbveteran,  I think this is one of the first posts I've seen you make that I agree with right out the gate. More of this!

Do take in account that the current changes still allow a timezone that has 10 vs 8 that is like a 1/10 of the prime time population to potential make more advances on the map than a 100 vs 80, that's why I stated in the past that you have to take in consideration the highest balance player population on the game for every 12h or 24h and set this capture timers accordingly, so at a prime-time even if you are overpopulated you should be able to capture 2x as more(or take 2x less to capturing than in a low player timezone). The most frustrating is fighting hard for hours and holding the line when you are underpop, go to bed and wake up with the campaign lost, at it's core this should be what you should try to fix.. It takes the importance of fighting AND big battles to a very high % of players.

Capture Timers - should follow this priority from shorter to longer

Balance Side(prime time) > Overpopulated side(the closest margin to one side max server pop in x period of time) > Balance (low pop timezone) > Overpopulated side (low pop timezone)

@XOOM

Btw I based my replys on a thread by thread basis, I'm thrill that you managed to added a division to each side think this will make HC job easier and I hope this opens the possibility to the democratization of brigades, so premium subscribers can now freely move their owned brigade, with many of this smaller brigades on the map, you will be organically promoting team work/High Command by forcing players to coordinate to mount an Attack or defense gathering specialized brigades like tank/Infantry/guns, having smaller brigades would also mean supply wouldn't last longer and you could have near instant FMS/FRU placement.

Really crossing fingers that town supply something that was tried, failed and the design at it's core is inferior to movable flags and obsolete by todays standards takes the form of just token garrisons and you refocus instead to allowing player to own their own Brigades this adds more value to subscriptions and is what Warthunder is implementing now.

Edited by pbveteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.