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brady

3rd Canadian

26 posts in this topic

Canadian,

 Now that we have an extra div on map, why not add:

http://www.junobeach.info/

The 3rd Canadian div for tier three ?

Be very cool to give them Sherman’s as well...

Edited by brady
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27 minutes ago, brady said:

Canadian,

 Now that we have an extra div on map, why not add:

http://www.junobeach.info/

The 3rd Canadian div for tier three ?

Be very cool to give them Sherman’s as well...

Even more realistically, add the 1st Canadian Division - a brigade of which was already in France in 1940.  (Loyal Edmontons, some of the 48th Highlanders and the Hasting & Prince Edwards (Hasty Pees). To quote: 

_______________________________________________________________

Canadian 1st Infantry Brigade in France: 13-18 June 1940

After the defeat and evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force, the German army launched a second offensive against the remainder of the French army south of the Seine and Marne rivers on 5 June. The British War Cabinet organized a second expeditionary force under the command of General Sir Alan Brooke. This force included the 1st Canadian Division commanded by Major-General Andrew McNaughton.

The first wave, or, to use the military term, advance guard, of the 1st Canadian Division, 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade, arrived at the French port of Brest on 13 June. The following day, the battalions of the 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade moved by rail toward Le Mans. The German army entered Paris on 17 June 1940, and the French government requested an armistice. As a result, the second British Expeditionary Force including the Canadian 1st Infantry Brigade immediately withdrew and, by 18 June, had boarded troopships in Brest and St. Malo and returned to Britain. Fortunately, the rest of 1 Canadian Division had never left England. The Canadian Brigade was forced to abandon most of its vehicles, but it was able to save all of its artillery.

Formation Patch 1CDN DIV

1 Canadian Infantry Division patch.png

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Canadians had a dismal record and reputation in WWII whoever they came up against beat them. From Dieppe to Caen to Scheldt they got beat up to such an extent that they were never fully committed to battle and were mainly reserves and garrison.

Blame Canada became a familiar refrain of routed Allied soldiers.

Edited by actonman

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1 hour ago, sorella said:

Even more realistically, add the 1st Canadian Division - a brigade of which was already in France in 1940.  (Loyal Edmontons, some of the 48th Highlanders and the Hasting & Prince Edwards (Hasty Pees). To quote: 

_______________________________________________________________

Canadian 1st Infantry Brigade in France: 13-18 June 1940

After the defeat and evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force, the German army launched a second offensive against the remainder of the French army south of the Seine and Marne rivers on 5 June. The British War Cabinet organized a second expeditionary force under the command of General Sir Alan Brooke. This force included the 1st Canadian Division commanded by Major-General Andrew McNaughton.

The first wave, or, to use the military term, advance guard, of the 1st Canadian Division, 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade, arrived at the French port of Brest on 13 June. The following day, the battalions of the 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade moved by rail toward Le Mans. The German army entered Paris on 17 June 1940, and the French government requested an armistice. As a result, the second British Expeditionary Force including the Canadian 1st Infantry Brigade immediately withdrew and, by 18 June, had boarded troopships in Brest and St. Malo and returned to Britain. Fortunately, the rest of 1 Canadian Division had never left England. The Canadian Brigade was forced to abandon most of its vehicles, but it was able to save all of its artillery.

Formation Patch 1CDN DIV

1 Canadian Infantry Division patch.png

I thought about that, but it was just a Brigade, and in tier three,  which is really more 1944 then it is 43, at least with all the 44/45 kit in it, it Seemed a more reasonable request, given one if the six div that landed on D day was Canadian.

Also it would  present an opportunity to add the Sherman to what would otherwise seem and all British TOE, in short it would be a fun mix of kit, it would feel “fresh”

1 hour ago, actonman said:

Blame Canada became a familiar refrain of routed Allied soldiers.

Scotty is turning in his grave :)

Edited by brady

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2 hours ago, actonman said:

Canadians had a dismal record and reputation in WWII whoever they came up against beat them. From Dieppe to Caen to Scheldt they got beat up to such an extent that they were never fully committed to battle and were mainly reserves and garrison.

Blame Canada became a familiar refrain of routed Allied soldiers.

Actonman: [censored] off, mate. Who volunteered to land at Dieppe when the US was screwing around? Who was the ONLY UNIT to make its D-Day line? Who defeated 12SSPzrDiv at Caen and beyond? Who took Ortona? Read a history book or two lad. Canada had the best K/D ratio of ALL ALLIED COUNTRIES in WW2 and was 2nd only to Finland overall. 

Don't know where  you from, but assume from the attitude USA.  Let us know how many US soldiers either ran away or were captured in the Bulge before Monty and the US Airborne showed up? 

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5 hours ago, sorella said:

Actonman: [censored] off, mate. Who volunteered to land at Dieppe when the US was screwing around? Who was the ONLY UNIT to make its D-Day line? Who defeated 12SSPzrDiv at Caen and beyond? Who took Ortona? Read a history book or two lad. Canada had the best K/D ratio of ALL ALLIED COUNTRIES in WW2 and was 2nd only to Finland overall. 

Don't know where  you from, but assume from the attitude USA.  Let us know how many US soldiers either ran away or were captured in the Bulge before Monty and the US Airborne showed up? 

Quote

 

Hi I'm from Canada mate Acton Ontario. However Dieppe was a historic disaster, Day D Juno beach was an unopposed landing, at Caen the Canadians got whipped during Op Atlantic and routed to their support Units they failed to capture Verriers Ridge so Op Goodwood failed. they took 2800 casualties there. In Ortono they got mashed and took more casualties then the Germans so I don't know where you get the kid ratio from.

 

Maybe their KD was high as you said because Canucks mostly surrendered or were kept in the rear.

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I'm Canadian as well and Dieppe, as history now shows, was anything BUT a disaster with the interception of the new enigma machine which saved lives.  

Juno was an unopposed landing?  

About 5,400 Canadians are buried in Normandy. In the two and a half months of the Normandy campaign, Allied casualities (killed, wounded and captured) totalled210,000. Canadian casualties totalled more than 18,000, including more than 5,000dead. German casualties were 450,000.

Maybe you should go to France and talk to some people over there about their views of Canadian's?

Read a book dude.

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8 hours ago, actonman said:

Dieppe was a historic disaster

Which was no personal fault of the Canadian troops, it's war, things do not always go right and rarely is it the fault of the soldiers themselves.
Suggest you do more learning and stop kicking the faces of the dead mate.
FWIW The Canadians took many casualties at Juno Beach, the German 716th and 352nd saw to that.
What you call unopposed landings, would have looked like a scene from saving private ryan at 7:56 AM

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29 minutes ago, bigruss said:

I never thought I would hear KD mentioned about real life...

there's a long thread in here somewhere from 3 or 4 years back (maybe in the Barracks) that I can't find, that fully explored K/D as it related to different armies/countries in WW2 based on finnish, dutch, canadian and russian academic studies. 

anyways, like soldiers everywhere, in every country, and especially in this game, blame everything on the Generals and HC. 

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I`ve read more books on WWII then you can imagine including Anthony Beevoir`s Dday and The Canadian Army and the Normandy Campaign: A Study of Failure in High Command John A. English  and LIONS OF CARENTAN, THE: Fallschirmjager Regiment 6, 1943-1945 Volker Griesser  and the History of the Second Wrold War and I am an expert on WWII.

Edited by actonman

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40 minutes ago, actonman said:

LIONS OF CARENTAN, THE: Fallschirmjager Regiment 6, 1943-1945 Volker Griesser 

This, is a good book...

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13 hours ago, actonman said:

I`ve read more books on WWII then you can imagine including Anthony Beevoir`s Dday and The Canadian Army and the Normandy Campaign: A Study of Failure in High Command John A. English  and LIONS OF CARENTAN, THE: Fallschirmjager Regiment 6, 1943-1945 Volker Griesser  and the History of the Second Wrold War and I am an expert on WWII.

Col. Trevor Dupuy's academic monographs, and collected works on WW2 ground combat statistical modelling, including his series on Numbers, Predictions and Wars, lists combat effectiveness in the west (ground combat but including artillery + air support caused casualties, and using kia/mia/wounded/prisoner numbers available in WW2 unit diaries and medical, ration count and reinforcement rolls) as: 

  • Canada 1.89 -1 vs Axis (France/Italy)
  • Polish 1.68 - 1  vs Axis (Italy, partial France)
  • British  1.62 -1  vs Axis ( West incl N Africa )
  • America 1.23 - vs Axis   ( West incl  N Africa) (rising to 1.56 in '45 only)

The Canadians also took substantially few prisoners by ratio to other allied forces, and likewise, Axis with Canadian prisoners.  In the east the Axis is calculated to 3.1 - 1  vs Soviets (only) over the full 4 years.   Finland models out at 3.4 -1 v Soviets. 

From the postscript to 'Frontsoldaten: Tagebücher Vol 2 ' a Tubingen University German academic collection of 1939-1945 letters, unit histories, and personal memoires: 

 As the war progressed the Canadian troops were more and more regarded - as were the Australian troops  - as the most effective, respected, and feared of all the military formations on the Western Front and Afrika, often going into battle first as elite 'shock troops' (German translation: Stoßtrupp).

Similar sentiments as to Canadians and Australians (and Kiwis) are expressed in the limited edition German text companion ($1050 - Archive of Modern Conflict, London) to 'Nein, Onkel' - a replication of personal photographs & letters sent home by German soldiers from both fronts in WW2. 

Also of general interest as to combat effectiveness would be General S.L.A Marshall's academic works (he also famously wrote Pork Chop Hill) and  fire-ratio studies on WW2 combat effectiveness regarding American troops,  particularly 'Men Against Fire'  -  where his findings after thousands of post-battle interviews and study of unit and personal diaries led to the (then startling) conclusion that 'only 22-25% of US infantry fired their weapons in combat situations' - an even lower percentage actually used aimed fire or fired to kill. 

His methodology has been challenged in recent military history academic circles, but are agreed to generally ring true to soldiers in most armies and countries who have seen land combat. 

 

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I thought Actonman was trolling, guess not...

Ortona - Urban warfare tactics developed by Canadians troops too attack well entrenched Germans, still used Today, we did get Ortona back, Van Doos Cpt. Paul Triquet earned a Victoria Cross etc...

Most Special Ops Forces Today are a reflection of the Devils Brigade(Canadian/American), check out there K/D, can't get any better then that...

BTW Dieppe was a stepping stone for subsequent Landings, someone had to try it 1st...doomed to failure as they say.

Not every battle is fought with weapons, many a seaman meet Davy Jones resupplying our Brit cousins, yet there they stood, defiantly, empty handed, knowing they can't do anything about the wolf packs hunting them, brave doesn't even come close.

George 'Buzz' Beurling the Falcon of Malta perfecting Deflection shooting, used by the rest of the Allied Air Forces for the rest of the War...

Some of the toughest battles were in the North Western German/Netherlands marshlands, guess who was there etc

List goes on...

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Back on topic, if you're asking to add it as a British flag, that could be done.

If you're asking to add it with its own flag, persona, weapons, equipment, vehicles... not any time soon.

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2 hours ago, chaoswzkd said:

Back on topic, if you're asking to add it as a British flag, that could be done.

If you're asking to add it with its own flag, persona, weapons, equipment, vehicles... not any time soon.

Of course, as a British flag, in tier three, when they add the Americans, take out the 51st highland and swap it for the Canadian 3rd.

 The beauty is that the 3rd used only Sherman’s, and firefly’s, So it would feel different and honour the Canadians, Who certainly deserve it

Edited by brady

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On 3/5/2018 at 9:07 PM, actonman said:

Canadians had a dismal record and reputation in WWII whoever they came up against beat them. From Dieppe to Caen to Scheldt they got beat up to such an extent that they were never fully committed to battle and were mainly reserves and garrison.

Blame Canada became a familiar refrain of routed Allied soldiers.

you have no idea what you are talking about actionman

 

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:17 AM, merlin51 said:

Which was no personal fault of the Canadian troops, it's war, things do not always go right and rarely is it the fault of the soldiers themselves.
Suggest you do more learning and stop kicking the faces of the dead mate.
FWIW The Canadians took many casualties at Juno Beach, the German 716th and 352nd saw to that.
What you call unopposed landings, would have looked like a scene from saving private ryan at 7:56 AM

Indeed it was a disaster from a Canadian perspective as the Canadians were in fact used in a false raid (not known at the time) in order to gain information about the Enigma machine, so yes...a disaster!

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"17-pounder Sherman of Lord Strathcona's Horse in the Netherlands, April 1945, showing the extent to which extra tracks were often applied to tanks in Canadian service. LAC Photo."

 

pfI9695.jpg

 

From link above...

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