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Mosizlak

More bombers, same old AAA

117 posts in this topic

Air to ground just got deadlier, while the ground guys are stuck with the same old AAA.  Don't even start with the SPAA, it's the same old AAA with wheels added. 

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I have to agree. I am sure it is good and fun adding new stuff, but the dead from above it's being too drastic... Been tanking these days in tier 3 and well, it is tough.

Specially with no numbers in LW. 

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4 hours ago, erasmo said:

I have to agree. I am sure it is good and fun adding new stuff, but the dead from above it's being too drastic... Been tanking these days in tier 3 and well, it is tough.

Specially with no numbers in LW. 

The air game is drastically one sided.  It has been for a decade.  There are clearly no real plans to address it by CRS.  Playing Axis means getting bombed with no resistance in the air to counter it.  5626 kills for ground attack aircraft for the Allies versus 1652 kills for the Axis ground attack aircraft this campaign.  That's what... like 71 percent more kills for the Allied bombers?  The Axis fighter aircraft don't compete and over time numbers have dwindled which has essentially left Allied aircraft all the loiter time they want over target.  2.1 K/D for British Fighter Aircraft.  1.39 for French Fighter Aircraft.  .89 for German Fighter Aircraft.  German Fighters are outclassed and it shows up in the effectiveness of bombers.

When the KE audit gets completed and the effectiveness of bombs gets increased it should be entertaining.

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***  That's what... like 71 percent more kills

Eh, that is more like 241% more kills.... be almost balanced if it was only 71% more.

 

And, I find it a bit unnerving to use the "historical accuracy" card, allowing allies 100% more bombs on the new fighter bomber, while the air game is already completely lopsided.  And, yet still retaining the grease gun in early tiers?

 

Love the new gear, but hope the overall picture is being looked at.

 

Edited by delems

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40 minutes ago, delems said:

***  That's what... like 71 percent more kills

Eh, that is more like 241% more kills.... be almost balanced if it was only 71% more.

 

And, I find it a bit unnerving to use the "historical accuracy" card, allowing allies 100% more bombs on the new fighter bomber, while the air game is already completely lopsided.  And, yet still retaining the grease gun in early tiers?

 

Love the new gear, but hope the overall picture is being looked at.

 

Oops LOL. Did the math in my head of Axis kills being 29 percent of Allied kills and reversed it.  You’re right. You got the gist though. It’s way out of whack. 

While CRS addresses HE shortfalls in capability for the early brits and long range capability for late tier brits in the armor game they do nothing to even up the massive air imbalance in their road map. A few JABO aircraft do not even up the complete mismatch in fighter capability. 

The complete silence and apathy of CRS on the issue finally led me to believe they simply don’t give a [censored]. 

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Axis must never ever win any campaigns with such terrible imbalance 

 

 

 

right?

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2 minutes ago, Silky said:

Axis must never ever win any campaigns with such terrible imbalance 

 

 

 

right?

Really?  

You can't be that stupid, can you? 

Real good example at being a forum mod as well. Keep showing your true colors. 

 

Edited by Mosizlak
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2 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Really?  

You can't be that stupid, can you? 

Real good example at being a forum mod as well. Keep showing your true colors. 

 

I’m pointing out a very obvious flaw in the ‘CRS hate us and don’t care’ when Axis are 4 in a row. Or is it 5?

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4 minutes ago, Silky said:

I’m pointing out a very obvious flaw in the ‘CRS hate us and don’t care’ when Axis are 4 in a row. Or is it 5?

No, you're totally ignoring the facts they put forth and throwing in side bias. 

So you're fine with such a massive imbalance? Yeah, coming from an allied player I guess you are. 

 

Wahhhh! 4 in a row! Ignore the numbers and throw your arms in the air and yell to protect your advantage. 

Edited by Mosizlak

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11 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

No, you're totally ignoring the facts they put forth and throwing in side bias. 

So you're fine with such a massive imbalance? Yeah, coming from an allied player I guess you are. 

 

Wahhhh! 4 in a row! Ignore the numbers and throw your arms in the air and yell to protect your advantage. 

Before I start to take the central point seriously, I’d be interested to see data taken from a larger base than one campaign 

 

I’m also cautious about taking any one stat in isolation, any serious review requires a broader, more holistic approach

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1 hour ago, Silky said:

Before I start to take the central point seriously, I’d be interested to see data taken from a larger base than one campaign 

 

I’m also cautious about taking any one stat in isolation, any serious review requires a broader, more holistic approach

This situation remains unchanged from campaign to campaign whether the Allies win or lose. It has remained unchanged for over a decade. The only saving grace is that HE to include bombs has never worked quite right in game. With the KE audit that may all change and what is an annoyance now could become game breaking. 

Who cares though, HLL and PS will be out by then I guess. 

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Silky,

Game (equipment) overall is balanced. I always keep that as a fact. I played both sides enough in long runs for being very sure about that. I see the big picture ok.

BUT

That's not incongruent with another fact: the AIR branch, especially the bombers, has the axis in clear disadvantage. Numbers (stats) say that and ANY vet around know that just from first hand experience.

Does it deny them to win maps? Of course not. Because maps are won basically on the ground and population is always the key factor.

Edited by erasmo

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Very sad to think there are rats that can't see the imbalance in air that has gone on for decades.

Look at SPAA sorties, 300% more axis.

Look at air kills - over 200% allied advantage.

Look up light AA vrs bombers; over 300% advantage allies.

 

Sheesh - go play the game - watch a 111 fly.... then watch a db7 fly.   Really, you can't see the difference?

 

I'm happy rats improving game - but the air game is completely out of balance.

 

 

And map wins have nothing to do with air imbalance, as was said, it is a function of pop imbalance and infantry.

That does not negate the fact there is an air imbalance.

 

Edited by delems
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The funniest thing is that the hopeless situation in the air drives more axis players to play ground, and outside a few situations that's how towns are captured.

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@erasmo

Mostly LW Players left the game here because this Air timeline is horrible and it look likes they dont want to chance it. They create Plans that no full LW Player really want or was asking for and lose so his own playerbase over the time.

 

I chance for play air to other games with real setting. This fantasy is not my thing here. 

 

But bge is still the best game with his open map and setting but the air game is a joke from my view.

Edited by sajuk

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3 hours ago, Silky said:

Axis must never ever win any campaigns with such terrible imbalance

It has little to do equipment balance and more to do with the allies not going on offense except during US prime. All axis has to do is successfully turtle for 4-6 hours out of the day and they'll eventually win the campaign. When someone from another TZ switches to the allied team, the allies faceroll to victory until they switch back because axis doesn't have a real prime time anymore. If you knew something about guild management and not this game's HC and flag stuff you'd realize that.

 

The air game is indeed abysmal and that's why so many regular pilots just up and left for BOS or even War Thunder. WT has a better fleshed-out SPAA and air-ground balance too, it's got a variety of pre-war and early-war stuff like the french P4T AA and the flakpanzer 1 to start. It gets easier to overlook the smaller scope and fewer sim elements when other games have a stack of units and we can't even get HMGs that point up.

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Offtopic: Warthunders balancing is abysmal.  Planes dominate ground vehicles and planes are placed at battle ratings that make them blatantly overpowered.

 

On topic: personally I don't think the air balance is that bad fighters wise. Bomber wise I think the issue stems from the fact that the allies and axis have different types of bombers.  Allies have attack bombers while axis has a level bomber and a dive bomber.  Axis would need something like a Dornier or a Ju 88 to bridge that gap.  

 

It should be noted though that even after a flight model audit the db7 will still be more agile than an He 111.

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6 hours ago, delems said:

And, I find it a bit unnerving to use the "historical accuracy" card, allowing allies 100% more bombs on the new fighter bomber, while the air game is already completely lopsided.  

 

Just remember that the SC250 250Kg bomb is a much larger bomb (100% bigger, 550lbs?) than the 250lb GP and that should make a big difference when we get the HE audit out. 

 

6 hours ago, delems said:

Love the new gear, but hope the overall picture is being looked at.

 

Glad you like them, we are aware of the overall picture.. You don't let us forget it ;) 

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The first step is admitting there is a problem.  We can't even get that far on this issue.

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46 minutes ago, SCKING said:

 

Just remember that the SC250 250Kg bomb is a much larger bomb (100% bigger, 550lbs?) than the 250lb GP and that should make a big difference when we get the HE audit out. 

 

 

Glad you like them, we are aware of the overall picture.. You don't let us forget it ;) 

I know you guys are working on the HE Audit. But it does get frustrating when I fly 7 sorties with a ju87 and get 117 hits and no kills. 

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Would it be possible to use the DD's fire control system with a PPO? 

 

Deploying a cluster of 4 small barrel guns with sand bag protection or maybe a pair of bofors with sand bags - would be a nice way to get more oomph from what we have already while more models arrive. 

 

Must be within X disance of a FB or FMS? Only deploy once? 

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”... left because the air timeline is horrible ... decades of imbalance ...”

The LW kit is what it is - we can’t invent a third type of fighter beside the 109 and 190. 

Wunderweapons like the Ta152, Dora and 262 only factor in by 1944 and they still don’t do diddly about Spits, which is arguably the main concern.

What we can do is progress to the Macchis and Reggianes, but 1) so many things on the list and 2) they’re not LW.

The LW kit in general has a lot of strengths and superiorities - speed, guns, climb, dive and roll. As a long-time Allied player with 98% French sorties, all I know is material inferiority.

I too would like to fill out the holes in the spawnlist, for all. We are pedalling as hard as we can.

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@ Bmbm

What you say is not True. First Fw190 come out and fight vs Spitt2.

The Fw190 A5 is in real the oppenent of the SpitIV and not the SpitIX and not the late typ SpitIXc.

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