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Mosizlak

More bombers, same old AAA

117 posts in this topic

*** [Do not make personal attacks or call names]

When the adjective fits, I call it how it is.

 

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What are the things you could do to make the air war less onerous and more appealing to the Germans that are within CRS's current capabilities?

Flak38 in flak30 clothing is often touted.

Allowing timed bursts for the flak36 would be really cool.

AAA pit PPO to make aa more survivable.

The idea of an earlier 190 is a good one if you ask me. Could give the brits a few clipped wing spits as a response.

You could add a stuka variant with a 500kg or 1000kg bomb in tier 1 or 2. The stuka is a very slow vulnerable aircraft, that might make it more attractive, and lethal, especially with the he audit. Could be a stuka progression - 250kg, 500kg, 1,000kg - maybe with the twin defensive mg at some point (dunno the history). I know loadouts would handle this, but they are who knows how far off. Though they would be nice.

Could introduce the blen-T (i know its not real but the beaufort was close) and model a heinkel with 2 torps (I believe they could carry two). Could balance that by more blens in the list.

Could introduce a later war Heinkel with the upgraded defensive guns - 13mm mgs, and 20mm cannon. To balance that you could give the Americans the Havoc with the six fifties in the nose (don't think you want the one with six hispanos). :D

True multicrewing would benefit the Heinkel greatly, especially with upgraded guns.

Madrebel's idea of fire control of multi aaa is great, though it seems a bit much at this time.

Any good ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by biggles4

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25 minutes ago, biggles4 said:

Flak38 in flak30 clothing is often touted.

Ignoring paint color and different carriage assemblies, Anyone close enough to tell the difference should probably be on the shooting side of things :)
I like the dark grey though, if we could have the 38 just retinted?

2cm1.jpg

FlaK_38_anti-aircraft_gun_during_the_VII

 

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1 hour ago, biggles4 said:

The idea of an earlier 190 is a good one if you ask me. Could give the brits a few clipped wing spits as a response.
 

The Spit V is the competitor to the early 190s. Both were 41. The spit IX matches to the A4/A5.

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12 minutes ago, haupt said:

The Spit V is the competitor to the early 190s. Both were 41. The spit IX matches to the A4/A5.

You know what would be interesting, if we split the tiers in half or thirds or quarters. Then you could have a few 190s added with the spit V, then half way through the tier more 190s are added with the brits getting a few Vs with clipped wings. Then the later 190 and the spit IX are introduced next tier. You could have a more interesting, nuanced, progression, with the kind of innovation and response of real life. 

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2 hours ago, biggles4 said:

The idea of an earlier 190 is a good one if you ask me. Could give the brits a few clipped wing spits as a response.

An earlier FW190 is in the Roadmap.. FW 190 A3 is in the plans

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2 minutes ago, biggles4 said:

You know what would be interesting, if we split the tiers in half or thirds or quarters. (...) You could have a more interesting, nuanced, progression

+10.

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1 hour ago, SCKING said:

An earlier FW190 is in the Roadmap.. FW 190 A3 is in the plans

I've already told Xoom there is zero point in doing an A3. Its identical to the A4 in game terms. 

 

Do they A2 if you want an earlier model.

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I have to agree as well, is at this time with a lot of pilots and bombers that you see that the AA barely makes a dent to planes and these don't really fear them.

There was a post a month ago of a video showing AA hits on planes and making few to no damage, I have been using AA's lately as well and I making hits but not damaging enough the planes.

Two things are needed:

- Reduce supply of Ground Attack Planes, so these can be attrited currently there is too much supply you could never provoke enough attrition to an air flag.

- Increase the deadliness of AA rounds both for 20mm and 40mm, a Single direct 40mm shell should almost always bring down any plane.

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3 hours ago, pbveteran said:

I have to agree as well, is at this time with a lot of pilots and bombers that you see that the AA barely makes a dent to planes and these don't really fear them.

There was a post a month ago of a video showing AA hits on planes and making few to no damage, I have been using AA's lately as well and I making hits but not damaging enough the planes.

Two things are needed:

- Reduce supply of Ground Attack Planes, so these can be attrited currently there is too much supply you could never provoke enough attrition to an air flag.

- Increase the deadliness of AA rounds both for 20mm and 40mm, a Single direct 40mm shell should almost always bring down any plane.

C) reboot the air game so there is more fun in high alt strategic bombing than CAS

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12 hours ago, madrebel said:

not a LW specific issue therefore you can't really hold this against HE-111s exclusively, or any plane for that matter. the simulation just lacks this feature.

what about 109s is over performing that isn't also the case for all other planes modeled? 

1. I’m not holding it against any crate. I merely pointed out that the worn-out LW DM gripes apply to all crates.

2. All I have is my perception and my expectation. For instance, I don’t expect a 109E to sustain several laps in a flat circle balls-out fight on the deck with a H75. Yet it happens.

13 hours ago, saronin said:

The numbers are objective and CRS had ignored them.  One side has an Air Force. 

You know what they say about stats right?

You also don’t get to hold the overwhelming adversity card in a game against FAF pilots ;)

It is however poetic justice of sorts, historically speaking, that the LW is largely out of the sky. In terms of balance, game health and opportunity to find a decent fight (for both sides) it is of course detrimental. 

IMO the air aspect, including the SPAA and A2G situation, can only be fixed/rejuvenated by the addition of LW tac bombers (read Ju-88, Do-17) and Allied medium and heavy bombers, together with realistic strat targets that balance effort/payoff. Pilots need to be pointing their crates more against the sky and less toward the ground, and for that we need a proper strat bomber game.

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1 hour ago, bmbm said:

1. I’m not holding it against any crate. I merely pointed out that the worn-out LW DM gripes apply to all crates.

 

lol

 

LOL

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20 hours ago, bmbm said:

I'm not, despite what folks may think. 

And I was being sarcastic, despite what you might have thought. 

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20 hours ago, merlin51 said:

Because energy that would become stress which would in turn rip control surfaces apart, simply remains energy off in the void of nothing, but inertia is active and present.
Where in real life there would have been catastrophic pilot induced failure of the airframe, there is none, so you just got the planes weight speed and intertia
shoving it along, probably better physics analogy than that but should suffice.
Same reason why you can loop an HE-111 with a full bomb load, or barrel roll it, or yank a blenheim around like it was a sopwith camel etc.

Not to say that the Havoc/DB7 does not need a general FM audit also, but we get away with an insane amount of stuff because we cant stress our airframe
and rip our wings off when we should.

When, at some point, Hatch gets that worked out and implemented, it will be a major game changer.
I predict about a month of the skies raining plane parts without a shot fired till we learn not to break our own planes.

I dont know if anyone remembers or had ever played dawn of aces, it was like warbirds but WWI, all string bag planes, and in full realism theater you had full stress damage, many intense dogfights ended with both sides pushing the limit too far and hitting the ground minus wings, elevators, etc.
 

LMAO. Can you add some equations to that? I promise I can follow...

And again, can you please forget about stress damage for the time being? Lets make the problem simple. We can complicate it later if you want. But first pass, lets treat it like it is in game. No stress damage modeled, only insane loop-de-loops at no E cost by heavy bombers that defy my less than informed expectations.

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9 hours ago, bmbm said:

1. I’m not holding it against any crate. I merely pointed out that the worn-out LW DM gripes apply to all crates.

2. All I have is my perception and my expectation. For instance, I don’t expect a 109E to sustain several laps in a flat circle balls-out fight on the deck with a H75. Yet it happens.

You know what they say about stats right?

You also don’t get to hold the overwhelming adversity card in a game against FAF pilots ;)

It is however poetic justice of sorts, historically speaking, that the LW is largely out of the sky. In terms of balance, game health and opportunity to find a decent fight (for both sides) it is of course detrimental. 

IMO the air aspect, including the SPAA and A2G situation, can only be fixed/rejuvenated by the addition of LW tac bombers (read Ju-88, Do-17) and Allied medium and heavy bombers, together with realistic strat targets that balance effort/payoff. Pilots need to be pointing their crates more against the sky and less toward the ground, and for that we need a proper strat bomber game.

None of it really matters for me. It’s all academic. If CRS hasn’t addressed the issue in a over a decade I have my doubts that it is going to happen at all. Since I don’t fly anymore in game anyway and went to the ground full time I’m more concerned with better Infantry and Armor gameplay.

Got my HLL forum access with what sounds like alpha access right around the corner. 

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What a concept to add multi-barrel AA huh? Single barrel just doesnt cut it. It has been proven time and time again. You should know by now that germany wrote the book on AA defenses, sort to speak. They mounted AA on anything, from trains,to HT, on top of buildings,tanks, ground, you name it they put AA on everything. Look there's gonna be a few of you guys who say the multiple barrels wont do anything, but i beg to differ. The whole idea of multi barrel AA is to through lead into the sky and increase your chances of scoring a hit. If single barrel AA was effective then why did Germany mass produce AA variants. Sure you dont have to give axis as many planes as the allies, i can live with that but at least let the axis have something to combat the influx of MORE planes bombing and strafing us. Further more if planes get to shoot at us (AA) eith 4-12 Barrels,cannons AND bombs and the AA guys get to shoot at them with 1... LAME.... yeah yeah yeah get more AA guns out, move out of thr ab shoot at the right time, hit the pilots left testicle nerve ive heard it ALL before, ut has been proven time and time again that doesnt work. Trying to get people to get in AA and stay in them is damn near impossible. Plus trying to mass spawn AA is impossible too because more than likey they already have havocs,db7s, hurris, and spits strafing and bombing the AB/FB 

I digress, if your adding more bombs and planes with more barrels and cannons at least let the AA guys have a chance. 

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When I fly - I am getting shot at in areas you usually don't get shot at. Reminds me of the old days where flak traps where a regular occurrence. Its the SPAA and FMS spawned AA guns. Giving multi barreled SPAA will indeed change the air war just as much as the new HE.  I think Scotsman has already stated that the New SPAA and AA types are in the bottleneck of the creator.. they will be here soon enough.  Lets not burn out those who are volunteering their time to put them through the creator process from asking to demanding to being vicious in the demands.  No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

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Allies need no new AA items; and I personally doubt even giving axis more and upgraded AA will even help much.

The damage models and flight characters are botched big time and more AA firing isn't going to change that.

 

As for aircraft, got a spitfire, 109G6 early and B-25 today, all 1/72 scale, to start building.

 

Edited by delems

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2 hours ago, stankyus said:

When I fly - I am getting shot at in areas you usually don't get shot at. Reminds me of the old days where flak traps where a regular occurrence.

Oh, now those were fun !

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21 hours ago, pbveteran said:

- Increase the deadliness of AA rounds both for 20mm and 40mm, a Single direct 40mm shell should almost always bring down any plane.

Regarding 40mm:

Certainly the currently modeled planes. Especially if carrying a bomb load or doing a structural-stress maneuver.

A center-fuselage hit should separate any currently modeled plane into several large pieces.

@scotsmanDoes the HE audit include aircraft damage?

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8 hours ago, Ltarflak said:

What a concept to add multi-barrel AA huh? Single barrel just doesnt cut it. It has been proven time and time again.

 

I so look forward to getting multi-barrel AA guns in game.. quad 50s will be a dream come true..

 

54 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Does the HE audit include aircraft damage?

 Don't think so.. HE/KE audit is looking at the ammo itself, not what its hitting. Im hoping DM and FM audits will come in the near future but it takes a lot of time to go over all the aircraft.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, SCKING said:

 

I so look forward to getting multi-barrel AA guns in game.. quad 50s will be a dream come true..

 

 Don't think so.. HE/KE audit is looking at the ammo itself, not what its hitting. Im hoping DM and FM audits will come in the near future but it takes a lot of time to go over all the aircraft.  

 

 

LMAO dont go over all the aircraft at first pass. Go over the ones we all know are fked...  a certain 2b comes to mind? 

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New, deadlier HE modelling will likely change the game entirely both in the air and on the ground. This is just around the corner.

Overstress is coming, which will put paid to high-G silliness and but a brake on stuff that people see as FM-related.

All planes all nations will be affected by this equally.

FWIW, I checked out the DM for a few select a/c and found no anomalies.

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7 hours ago, delems said:

Allies need no new AA items; and I personally doubt even giving axis more and upgraded AA will even help much.

The damage models and flight characters are botched big time and more AA firing isn't going to change that.

 

As for aircraft, got a spitfire, 109G6 early and B-25 today, all 1/72 scale, to start building.

 

Well I'm very happy to say - to fkn bad. Allies have new aa on the way also. You might get the some upgrades first.. ok, I'm not gonna cry about it.. but you might not. Feel free to shed tears here if you wish.  I don't care.

 

secondly several items about the DM and flight model have been discussed and where they are in order of priority and progress.. live with it. 

 

If you cannot see that we are actually getting New [censored] all over the place that will completely transform the game n which you nor I know how it will effect the game.. I dare say actually neither do the rats. We are going to go through some serious balance issues across the board. Prepare for your rectal examination, bend over and take it cause in the end it's to your benefit. If you cannot except that fact, you don't have near the patients of the allied hard core.

 

EDIT: example how things have changed by one simple engagement I had. Was a cru2 CS  tank on attack. Had a stugG creeping up on flank.. popped smoke in his direction, first guess 1400... to far and he turned. He got a perch and started firing on our CH7s and CH3s..  I popped smoke 1100 which was to close and he saw me.. however smoke at 1200 was direct.. dropped HE on him and he started to draw fire... he pushed foreword and hit me killing my crew.., however he gave his flank in the process to get rid of his irritant... me, and was destroye in the process. IMHO that is a fundamental change in the game. It was also the exact reason why I moved a CS tank into a tank battle. Curiosity about their role.. now experienced with better than expected results. Tank smoke at that small engagement for me totally changed the tanking game.. I see it's huge potential and it's effective.

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7 hours ago, blkmgc said:

Oh, now those were fun !

Been on many of those back when the 23rd and AEF had enough players.

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