blkmgc

Leaders that Lead?

47 posts in this topic

I'm just a nobody from the past, but remember attacks that had multiple leaders taking the fight to the enemy in a coordinated fashion, not this "place a MS and feed the meatgrinder" stuff. One group would form an ATG line or an armor column for suppression, another would herd all the cats (inf) into one group for timer duty, and most times another would organize some air support to keep every thing in the AB's..in and dead. And we would put the beat down.

As a WBS I don't see any of this , and quite frankly the game hasn't changed all that much from those days (Not mentioning PRE- good ol boys club, cause that was much more fun). So is this the new standard or status quo? Is there not enough asses in seats to pull this off anymore? Is there no interest in this anymore? Does the game mechanics not allow for this anymore? Are leaders too afraid of spies? Are there certain times this takes place that I'm just missing (Ive tried different prime times)?

Not knocking whats going on (much), just trying to understand.

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A lot of the things you mention were done by the squads, when the game went to total flag based supply they kind of lost the ability
to do that on an efficient level.
The game plan is for 1.36 to move to a new hybrid supply system (among other things) where the squads can get back in there and take back up leading the tactical operations on the ground like they used to.

It is not that it never happens now, but it is much harder for them to do because they have to rely on a given flag to remain in place the entire time
and the possibility of rear supply etc does not exist very well right now.

Should be some info on it in the roadmap

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Yeah, dont see much in the way of squad opps going on. Shame really. Was probably the backbone of a bigger crowd.

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14 hours ago, blkmgc said:

Is there not enough asses in seats to pull this off anymore? Is there no interest in this anymore? Does the game mechanics not allow for this anymore?

Essentially a combination of these three things for whatever reason you want to attribute to it, but with an emphasis on the first point

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14 hours ago, blkmgc said:

So is this the new standard or status quo? Is there not enough asses in seats to pull this off anymore? Is there no interest in this anymore? Does the game mechanics not allow for this anymore? Are leaders too afraid of spies? Are there certain times this takes place that I'm just missing (Ive tried different prime times)?

Not knocking whats going on (much), just trying to understand.

Yes. What you see at prime time during the WBS is actually better than the game has been lately. Nothing in the game supports any organized tactical action and most of the major game mechanics exist specifically to impede and/or nullify it.

 

CRS won't get rid of HC, or AOs, or brigades, or do anything to support squads. They've explicitly come out against squad missions and even any ability to turn on/off spawning. The squad numbers have flatlined and no one has the population to take a town by themselves anymore. So when there is some population on during prime time it's like you said a "place a MS and feed the meatgrinder" operation. All the remaining leaders that "stepped up" and haven't quit from HC burn-out are stuck staring at the map instead of organizing attacks.

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Thats odd given the obvious result of going in that direction.  Too bad. Those opps were a blast, and kept a lot of folks here. I used to spend hours on these , and not just in the actual action, but in the planning as well.

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26 minutes ago, blkmgc said:

Thats odd given the obvious result of going in that direction.  Too bad. Those opps were a blast, and kept a lot of folks here. I used to spend hours on these , and not just in the actual action, but in the planning as well.

I absolutely agree Blk. That was huge back in the day and kept the game alive or at least more exciting

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There are several squads who have adopted this. My recommendation is get on discord and find the active channels.

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3 hours ago, david01 said:

Yes. What you see at prime time during the WBS is actually better than the game has been lately. Nothing in the game supports any organized tactical action and most of the major game mechanics exist specifically to impede and/or nullify it.

 

CRS won't get rid of HC, or AOs, or brigades, or do anything to support squads. They've explicitly come out against squad missions and even any ability to turn on/off spawning. The squad numbers have flatlined and no one has the population to take a town by themselves anymore. So when there is some population on during prime time it's like you said a "place a MS and feed the meatgrinder" operation. All the remaining leaders that "stepped up" and haven't quit from HC burn-out are stuck staring at the map instead of organizing attacks.

Getting pretty tired of your consistent misinformation campaign by espousing your opinions and perspectives as absolute fact.

 

CRS is changing the way HC will impact the game.

CRS isn't getting rid of AOs, as they still 1) concentrate the playerbase and 2) prevent mass amounts of caps, esp. during low population times when a side can't mount an effective defense for handfuls of players attempting to simulcap 20 different towns at once. CRS is looking at population-based AOs to further change HC away from logistics to more pure organization and leadership roles.

The issue with squad missions has been and continues to be that we CANNOT restrict new players from playing the game. It is incredibly poor design to intentionally implement something where a new player could join the game and there are 0 missions to join because the established squads don't want to play with newbies. Even if it's not feasible that this would happen, we need to guarantee access to newer players. Instead, something that disables anyone from joining the mission, or a sort of grace period to allow mission leaders the time they need to set up an attack or defense is something that can be looked at. If you have a suggestion for 'squad missions' that rectifies this, by all means, please post your suggestion in the suggestion forum.

 

General population is down from the heyday of WWIIOL, and a lot of squads are remnants from that time and now only have handfuls of players each. New squads do pop up but they're rare compared to the super old squads with 3 active members. Squad consolidation would go a long way to getting general squad population back up, but that's a touchy subject because it involves discarding or setting aside long and storied squads, often with their own websites and forums.

 

Integrated Voice Communications (IVC) will also serve to coordinate players outside of squads or between squads, which should further remedy issues from lack of general population and lack of squad population.

Edited by chaoswzkd
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12 minutes ago, BLKHWK8 said:

There are several squads who have adopted this. My recommendation is get on discord and find the active channels.

Well, see, that really doesn't answer anything. No offense meant . It gives in more to the status quo. To me, and I could be wrong, that the inclination is toward a small area sandbox rush type game with scant info given, even on discord since they are not a squad but more of a gathering of players/ strangers. That type of game does have appeal of course, but there are tons of games out there that do this a multiple times better on modern engines with much more complex graphics and physics. Although, coincidentally , they don't share the size map that this game does, which is your only advantage over those games.

I look at the "road map" , which I assume is your questions thread, and I see many new  pieces and features, but all being vaguely focused on the aforementioned game type. It lacks any real indication as to exactly what the direction of it all actually is. Its ok if theres no clear cut answer you  want to give , or if your actually trying to create a small focused game. I'm just a nobody WBS who remembers something different.

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44 minutes ago, blkmgc said:

Well, see, that really doesn't answer anything. No offense meant . It gives in more to the status quo. To me, and I could be wrong, that the inclination is toward a small area sandbox rush type game with scant info given, even on discord since they are not a squad but more of a gathering of players/ strangers. That type of game does have appeal of course, but there are tons of games out there that do this a multiple times better on modern engines with much more complex graphics and physics. Although, coincidentally , they don't share the size map that this game does, which is your only advantage over those games.

I look at the "road map" , which I assume is your questions thread, and I see many new  pieces and features, but all being vaguely focused on the aforementioned game type. It lacks any real indication as to exactly what the direction of it all actually is. Its ok if theres no clear cut answer you  want to give , or if your actually trying to create a small focused game. I'm just a nobody WBS who remembers something different.

Not sure where you're getting some of this, so hopefully we can clear it up for you.

 

"Small area sandbox rush type game with scant info given": if by "small area" you mean "a town, its connected forward bases, its connected towns, nearby docks, and nearby airfields", sure.

As for "sandbox rush", the game is definitely not designed toward that. It is designed to be played with as much cooperation and organization as possible. Cap timers have been lengthened in general to deincentivize lone-wolf caps and are scaled by players simultaneously capping, incentivizing people to help each other capture cps and bunkers. Forward Bases take quite a lot of satchel charges to blow now, which incentivizes players to cooperate to avoid the enemy noticing and rushing to a defense. Mobile spawns have been turned into Fortified Mobile Spawns which are both more visible and more defensible, incentivizing players to build up defenses, spawn guns, etc. to set up a Zone of Control around it.

As for "scant information given", not sure where that's coming from. I didn't play during the golden age of this game, but my understand is that AWS (air warning system) and EWS (enemy warning system) were not a thing.

 

Discord is set up similarly to how Teamspeak was: each squad has a channel, and there are general channels for people to join. It's absolutely not just random disorganized players.

 

The "road map" is not a questions thread, it's a publicized list of things CRS is planning to implement for the given timeframe.

 

So, really, the game is not designed to be played as such, nor is CRS further developing it or designing it to be played as such. However, CRS also can't force players to play the game the way it is designed to be played; it's a lot easier to drive a truck, plop an FMS, and watch people flood than it is to grab a bunch of people and coordinate with them to set up and execute complex tactics.

The side that does set up and execute complex tactics generally wins any given fight, but they are unfortunately also generally the side that has the population to pull that off.

There are definitely things on the road map and internally planned to make it easier than it currently is to play the game the way it has been designed, which will hopefully help with that.

Edited by chaoswzkd

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3 hours ago, david01 said:

CRS won't get rid of HC, or AOs, or brigades, or do anything to support squads.

Ok you have read the roadmap, you have read the plan for 1.36 so dont really appreciate you telling lies and simply looking for ways
to create your own little drama fest, think its time for you to go find a new forum to play in David

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17 hours ago, merlin51 said:

A lot of the things you mention were done by the squads, when the game went to total flag based supply they kind of lost the ability
to do that on an efficient level.
The game plan is for 1.36 to move to a new hybrid supply system (among other things) where the squads can get back in there and take back up leading the tactical operations on the ground like they used to.

It is not that it never happens now, but it is much harder for them to do because they have to rely on a given flag to remain in place the entire time
and the possibility of rear supply etc does not exist very well right now.

Should be some info on it in the roadmap

xD it has nothing to do with flags, at the present you can do all of this probably even better.

The issue is after all this years CRS has pissed a lot of players, other moved to other games and so these once organized and big communities fracture, become smaller or simply disappeared so most of that teamwork is gone.

With more players playing the game this teamwork and communities would come back but the game currently has no rewards and in-game tools that promote this OPs and teamwork, so this would always be uncommon.

 

Another reason is that now CRS split the community between premium, standard and free players, in the past everyone could drive a tank, now only premium subscribers can, I remember organically we could gather 15 tank players rush a town and lock the AB, nowadays we don't have the numbers or the knowhow/access of players to these vehicles.

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12 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

Another reason is that now CRS split the community between premium, standard and free players, in the past everyone could drive a tank, now only premium subscribers can, I remember organically we could gather 15 tank players rush a town and lock the AB, nowadays we don't have the numbers or the knowhow/access of players to these vehicles.

First of all, it's "Starter", not "standard". If there's any kind of "standard" level of access to the game, it's the Premium subscription.

Second, weren't all subscriptions Premium in the past? I'm not sure your point here is valid other than in addition to the Premium players we have we also have people with Starter and F2P accounts. Sure they can't operate tanks, but that's not a reason in and of itself that we have less players that can play tanks, we just have more players in the game in addition to the existing ones that could always use tanks. 

Edited by chaoswzkd

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11 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

 

 

Another reason is that now CRS split the community between premium, standard and free players, in the past everyone could drive a tank, now only premium subscribers can, I remember organically we could gather 15 tank players rush a town and lock the AB, nowadays we don't have the numbers or the knowhow/access of players to these vehicles.

That’s very interesting. The fabric of this game was based on squad ops and from what I’m reading thats all disappeared and to now read that being able to use gear is based on what sub you have? 

 

There used to be a time when you could find a leader at any given minute in game from Engine3, catfive,darkvex,cosian, haikugod,jamm40,salador, aeropause, ltibbs,poker,cometus, gagamel,dm79,company0, Jsilec etc etc.  Can someone give me a quick skinny on what WWIIOL has become? 

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9 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

First of all, it's "Starter", not "standard". If there's any kind of "standard" level of access to the game, it's the Premium subscription.

Second, weren't all subscriptions Premium in the past? I'm not sure your point here is valid other than in addition to the Premium players we have we also have people with Starter and F2P accounts. Sure they can't operate tanks, but that's not a reason in and of itself that we have less players that can play tanks, we just have more players in the game in addition to the existing ones that could always use tanks. 

In the past everyone was premium and had all equipment or you were in a 14 day full access to the game.

So when you talk or told someone to come as engineer/para/tank they most likely could, the fact that you had access to all equipment meant you would try to use it and get better at it, now a starter would never learn to use a tank etc..

Edited by pbveteran

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8 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

First of all, it's "Starter", not "standard". If there's any kind of "standard" level of access to the game, it's the Premium subscription.

Second, weren't all subscriptions Premium in the past? I'm not sure your point here is valid other than in addition to the Premium players we have we also have people with Starter and F2P accounts. Sure they can't operate tanks, but that's not a reason in and of itself that we have less players that can play tanks, we just have more players in the game in addition to the existing ones that could always use tanks. 

Years ago we would roll an AO with 23rd doing a 40 plus tank column, 101st dropping 30 paras, 13th Inf rolling MSPs and ATG lines, dam busters would roll in 20 bombers and we would destroy towns in minutes with organized ops and communication. AHC had to stack brigades to prep for what we damage we could do to axis towns on our squad nights. We used to look forward to KGW squad nights so we would have a challenge as KGW used to be beasts and as much as they annoyed me, they were extremely organized and good at what they did as a squad. Those were the glory days of WWIIOL and personally feel if that was taken away from the game, that will result in massive amounts of players disappearing 

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4 minutes ago, Ce said:

That’s very interesting. The fabric of this game was based on squad ops and from what I’m reading thats all disappeared and to now read that being able to use gear is based on what sub you have? 

 

There used to be a time when you could find a leader at any given minute in game from Engine3, catfive,darkvex,cosian, haikugod,jamm40,salador, aeropause, ltibbs,poker,cometus, gagamel,dm79,company0, Jsilec etc etc.  Can someone give me a quick skinny on what WWIIOL has become? 

Squad ops aren't the same as you remember largely due to player numbers being far less than when you played. That's the gist of it. Less numbers = less HC as well, which is a frequent complaint in the slow TZ's. The game is being developed more than it has in several years, however, the dev rate is still very slow and fancy new toys and features mean naught if there's nobody around to use them. 

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2 minutes ago, Ce said:

Those were the glory days of WWIIOL and personally feel if that was taken away from the game, that will result in massive amounts of players disappearing 

It wasn't deliberately taken away, people just dropped the game. The last time activity such as that could be observed was Sept/Oct of last year after Steam release, but 90+% of those players dropped within a month due to a multitude of reasons, the worst offender likely being the subscription model

Edited by gt3076r

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1 minute ago, gt3076r said:

Squad ops aren't the same as you remember largely due to player numbers being far less than when you played. That's the gist of it. Less numbers = less HC as well, which is a frequent complaint in the slow TZ's. The game is being developed more than it has in several years, however, the dev rate is still very slow and fancy new toys and features mean naught if there's nobody around to use them. 

I kinda figured that’s the case. Game development is good and promising but I agree with you. I still to this day remember when AEF had over 100 squaddies on for Op and that didn’t include the other squads who joined in. Are any of these squads still around? Such a shame :(

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5 minutes ago, gt3076r said:

It wasn't deliberately taken away, people just dropped the game. The last time activity such as that could be observed was Sept/Oct of last year after Steam release, but 90+% of those players dropped within a month due to a multitude of reasons, the worst offender likely being the subscription model

Well thanks for the info man. I appreciate it and hopefully we can get the old dogs back in. 

 

<S>

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7 minutes ago, Ce said:

 Are any of these squads still around? Such a shame :(

Plenty of longtime squads are still active. Only problem is, they're almost all down to a handful of core people. Also, it's common for squads to switch sides for a map or two due to population troubles

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18 minutes ago, gt3076r said:

Plenty of longtime squads are still active. Only problem is, they're almost all down to a handful of core people. Also, it's common for squads to switch sides for a map or two due to population troubles

Yeah that’s always been the case. Glad to see some things haven’t changed lol. 

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43 minutes ago, Ce said:

Years ago we would roll an AO with 23rd doing a 40 plus tank column, 101st dropping 30 paras, 13th Inf rolling MSPs and ATG lines, dam busters would roll in 20 bombers and we would destroy towns in minutes with organized ops and communication. AHC had to stack brigades to prep for what we damage we could do to axis towns on our squad nights. We used to look forward to KGW squad nights so we would have a challenge as KGW used to be beasts and as much as they annoyed me, they were extremely organized and good at what they did as a squad. Those were the glory days of WWIIOL and personally feel if that was taken away from the game, that will result in massive amounts of players disappearing 

This. I remember either flying with the 78th for these or, if our squad night coincided, the 484th (our group) would fly with the 78th as escorts or in bombers as well. Was always way better when the Axis showed up in force. Yeah we used a lot of kit, but man were those some epic battles. If the game mechanics ever gravitates back in that direction , these would be fun again.

Edited by blkmgc

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Oh, wanted to add. I doubt discord can handle the kind of numbers were talking here in one channel.

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