Quincannon

Female units (Yes, FEMALE!)

37 posts in this topic

Good idea, but, knowing this crowd, they would all be spawned by guys......

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With respect to the female player you mention (and there have been some awesome female players in this game's history), this is a very bad idea. Despite the information you've provided, this is so ahistorical as to be a complete and total non-starter. Perhaps there's a reasonable argument to made for a few female avatars in a hypothetical Soviet spawnlist (and even then, contrary to sensational and very intentionally publicized cases, any remotely historical ratios of males to females would make it so that the number of weapon-wielding frontline females is vanishingly small relative to available males).

 

I'm making no judgement call with respect to to the era's social norms (that made it so that female armies weren't a thing), nor am I saying anything whatsoever about male and female difference (or lack thereof) in abilities; even if the Soviet sniper Lyudmila Pavlichenko killed only half of the 300+ that were claimed (and I have no reason to doubt the number), that's still over a hundred German men ended by a bullet just as lethal when fired by a woman as a man.

Edited by xanthus

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Lots of work to get this in.

Model changes (3rd person definitely, possibly also 1st person), texture changes, voice work (current grunts and death cries wouldn't fit female soldiers). Also additional changes if we ever incorporate anything to add onto soldiers, like HC uniforms, different camo, badges, whatever we want in the future. We'd have to assess both models for everything.

I personally think it would be neat to incorporate, keeping with historical accuracy as much as possible (which may mean only the Allies get them from Resistance/Partisans from French/Polish forces), but I'm not sure about the benefit vs. the cost.

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45 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

The truth is that this suggestion is no more ahistorical than the MAS40 or an undefeated French Army.

 

Very much disagree.
Undefeated French army and MAS40 are logical consequences of a war that starts on May 10, 1940 but continues on in the ways our virtual theater unfolds. The French remain undefeated until they're defeated; each side has research and development and deploys new weapons as time progresses. 

 

Adding resistance fighters/partisans is its own can of worms (probably a waste of dev resources); of these, what percentage were women? Hazard a guess?

Edited by xanthus

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1 hour ago, Quincannon said:

I'm curious as to whether or not you made this same argument about adding the Italians.

Your argument can be used to prevent the addition of any new units, ever. To be honest, the biggest issue would , indeed, be the female death cries and grunts. My guess is that either CRS could get those sound bites from the public domain, or get them from a willing volunteer for relatively small cost. It's not a lot of lines of dialogue.
 

Believe or not the women skeleton is different from a male in real life and in games, I'm not sure if this would apply to WW2ol but in more AA and AAA, you need a different skeleton to drive that character this is time consuming to implement because with that comes walking, idle and firing animations..

(the reason why Starcitizen has still no female character option)

As Chaos mention it's not viable at this point it uses too much resources with little gain, it's not very historical or realistic, I'm all for when USSR is implement that they have female soldiers since these server in all branches.

The concept of Female French partisans is neat but I don't really agree with German Partisans this mostly didn't happen and werewolf units played practically no role on WW2 and even Post-WW2 and what they actually did were mostly crimes by killing civilians, mayors.. I don't think this should be promote in this game.

Edited by pbveteran

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Nah, my opinion no.
Certain things just aren't cool.
Depicting shooting of children, women, and non combatants in general just not cool.

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1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

Nah, my opinion no.
Certain things just aren't cool.
Depicting shooting of children, women, and non combatants in general just not cool.

This.

 

" essentially tell women that can play males or get out? "

 

It's a WWII game; I don't see the issue. For example, I'm not aware of any women who saw front line action in the Battle of France in anything other than auxiliary roles (ie. medical) or any other front line in Western Europe or for that matter any other theater of WWII...with the exception of the Soviet Union; but even here it has to be emphasized that the vast, overwhelming majority of combatants were male; the Red Army mobilized 34 million men; of the hundreds of thousands of women who served, almost all were medical personnel; as someone with a medical background, trust me, I think these women were just as heroic (if not moreso) than any man or woman who aimed a rifle at an enemy soldier.

The resistance fighters and partisans you mention were behind the lines wreaking havoc on logistics, that was the whole point.

Edited by xanthus

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19 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

This is not supposed to be about you. 

 

Agreed; but then it's not about any one person. WWII is what it is, nothing to do with what I want or don't want.

And as far as partisans or resistance fighters, it's hard to see how they could be incorporated into the game... What would they do? Blow up train tracks behind the lines?

 


FWIW, I think it would be cool if this player (whoever she is) got her own female avatar from CRS. Not even kidding. I'd be 100% fine with that; it's a video game, and after all we've been through as a community, I see no problem with gifting something like that to a veteran. Add easter eggs or special things like that; no issue. But the idea that there will be spawnable female units in-game as a general matter just doesn't seem workable; there are not going to be e.g. uniformed women wielding rifles and LMGs spawning as Axis (as far as I know, the *only* such case is the USSR, though I could be wrong...possible there are other exceptions, perhaps in Asia). And if you say they should be non-uniformed "resistance"...I'm sorry, but people in civilian clothing should never be modeled in this game, let alone civilian women (no matter what else their loadout is).

 

This is a video game; you're playing as a WWII soldier. In that sense it's a role-playing game (every video game is to one degree or another). It doesn't matter what gender you are or where you come from or who you are. You can play as a German, French, British, American, or Italian soldier. Those are your options. If you play the original Super Mario, you can play as Mario or Luigi. I'm not seeing the issue.

Edited by xanthus

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I'd only say yes, if the game did a check on the players gender, and only allowed women to spawn the women troops.

Might be some fun 'resistance' type activities they could accomplish (have to be coded); but I also agree, prolly too much work currently for the payoff.

 

I'd much rather get an Italian and/or Romanian division (no armor) and half supply (AA/ATG/infantry) of regular divisions, that could not move into front line towns; to act as reserves and setup behind the main line.  Allies maybe Belgian, Norwegian, Canadian?

 

Edited by delems

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 I’m fine with adding women to the game,  as long as  there in uniform, I don’t think they should add  terrorists to the game, because one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist and I am sort of joking about that but I’m also sort of not.

 As noted above apart from Russia, pretty much everybody else that had women in uniform had them in a support role,  they did man AA guns And perform numerous other duties but they’re just not to be found in the front line except in extreme circumstance

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7 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

PS:  I cannot even conceive of how you can still believe that this version of the game will EVER have an Eastern front. At a minimum, the map would need to at least double in size, and include Eastern Europe before we even reach Russia.

 

FWIW, CRS's original master plan was to have a multi-theater game. The original log-in screen in beta (and possibly first release) had a globe where you could pick the theater you wanted. Rats must've felt it was logical to pick the Battle of France as a first theater. They even modeled a second theater (North Africa) along with original Italian units maybe 10 years ago (nothing ever came of it though). Eastern Front would've been the much better choice for first theater. Maybe some day....

 

True, here we are almost 20 years later. Almost certainly there won't be an Eastern Front (or a Pacific theater, which I pushed for over 10 years on these very forums). But by the same token, there almost certainly won't be female units in this game either.

Your friend mentions other games that have playable female characters. None of those are WWII games. There's a reason for that.

Edited by xanthus

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1 minute ago, Quincannon said:

I have never, ever had any interest in playing Russia. I doubt that I'm the only one.

 

Fair point. I'd guess CRS felt the same way. But I'd point to extremely successful games like Red Orchestra based on the Eastern Front. I think it could've worked...but it's true, we'll never know.

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1 hour ago, Quincannon said:

Are we just going to say "never gonna happen" and essentially tell women that can play males or get out?

You cant see yourself anyways, so you can imagine yourself anything you want i suppose

3 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

oTW4R5P.jpg

This should be a bannable offense, that is hideous

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@Quincannon

Trust me on online games is better that your daughter plays as a male avatar than a female avatar, if not she will be constantly harassed by male players or be given free stuff from 12yo white knights.

I decided once to play as a female in an MMO, it got too weird never again.. xD

 

One of the core strengths of this game should be realism putting female soldiers were there were none would attack this core strength, I also find it important that it stays as it was in real life so that women value and understand that they didn't always had the right to served their country as men did and this was earned in many cases by women in USSR in WW2.

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