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pbveteran

A Tank with a Damage track vs a De-track Tank

16 posts in this topic

This is an obscure feature that is rare to occur and can't be very frustrating in most of situations. It happens particularly with low caliber guns at medium to long ranges, often occurs with AI ATG Fire.

There is no feedback to any player to what just happen, no reward is given and you are can be out of fight or loose a large part of battle because of this, there is no way to repair or get back to the fight.

 

 

This is a case of a feature that wasn't implement for the sake of gameplay.. it's there only to annoy and even for years I perceived this as a bug, consider this game uses real damage and ballistics models and doesn't use a hitpoint system this even makes less sense.

 

 

Edited by pbveteran

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I always looked at it as transmission dmg, a dmg track should still get you rolling forward at a little faster pace .

Unless of course it's track dmg . Had it happen multiple times where I had to shift up and down and make my Tank more or less jump forward to get an RTB . Long slow process 

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 it sucks, 

 you will get a kill if you damage both tracks however 

 

 and the damage  model it sucks as well, It has no bearing in reality

  it’s also buged,  when your tank  shakes,  it’s doing so because it’s clipping into the terain

 but look on the bright side, they are starting to work with terain again...

Edited by brady

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I don't see the issue, your drivetrain is damaged (track, drive sprocket etc) so you won't get even propulsion, the shooter might not get points just for tracking you but it ruins your mobility so it's a win for the shooter

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Why would you need feedback after you were hit?

I know its only a game, but this is a WWII era tank and not a modern computerized one.

You want an automatic pop up to tell you that your tank was hit?

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On 3/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, pbveteran said:

There is no feedback to any player to what just happen

I am confused?
Tank ceases to move properly is feedback?
Or do you want damage messages, like
ENGINE DESTROYED
LEFT DRIVE DESTROYED

I know some games do have those, but i always figured when you quit rolling, or your engine quit making engine sound, or there was a 3 foot flame coming out your rear
that was good enough, the finer details kind of didnt matter at that point.
I guess you could suggest damage messaging? Your client already knows whats broke, i guess it could text message you about it?
Seems more like a naval capital ship thing but...

On 3/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, pbveteran said:

no reward is given and you are can be out of fight or loose a large part of battle because of this, there is no way to repair or get back to the fight.

A reward is given, it all depends on what you consider a reward i guess?
If i take your tank out of commission out of rescue range, and yet also out of firing range of my mission mates, but i was not able to kill you
i still got a reward.

You wont kill any of my mission members, at least not in that tank.
You will be down one tank, even if it may only be for 15 or 20 minutes
That is a reward, not everything revolves around points.

There is a whole lot of stuff you wouldnt be repairing.
If tank survived the battle zone intact, AND you could actually get recovery units into the area afterwards, youd drag the things back to be repaired.

Crew could repair a track, depending on how much damage, unless of course they happened to roll right off of it and drop the bogeys in the mud, then you need help.
but you wouldnt be even attempting to repairs tracks with anyone in the vicinity that had an interest in shooting you.

Yes i know other games let you repair your tracks and your engine and your transmission and put out fuel and ammo fires repeatedly and chuck your dead crew members out the hatch and hire new crew members when you run out all while under heavy fire and having the hell blown out of you.
That is just silly though WWII Online has never had anything that goofy in it, even the elbow firing MP40 wasnt that silly.

 

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5 hours ago, Pittpete said:

Why would you need feedback after you were hit?

I know its only a game, but this is a WWII era tank and not a modern computerized one.

You want an automatic pop up to tell you that your tank was hit?

 "I know its only a game" you answer your own question it is a game. Further more what you are saying doesn't apply to the rest of the game, why when a crew is hit you get a notification on the chat why doesn't it apply to being degun, damage tracks? 

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1:05

Bmp hits a curb hard and loses its track on 1 side,  driver keeps driving straight for 150 or so meters  before he himself seems to decide its a bad idea to keep going and stops the vehicle.

 

Tow arrives 6minutes later while getting covered my MBTs

 

Edited by Hinfoos

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9 hours ago, pbveteran said:

why when a crew is hit you get a notification on the chat why doesn't it apply to being degun, damage tracks?

It is a fair point.
Open a game suggestion for it, damage text feedback for when a component is destroyed

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Cover is your friend or learn how to shoot. I get total satisfaction out of degunning tanks,especially 3Gs and Tigers (careless about getting points for that) There has never been a warning system like that in this game. You’ll know when your tracked because you can’t move and you know when your degunned because you can’t shoot. 

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On 3/16/2018 at 0:54 PM, Ce said:

Cover is your friend or learn how to shoot. I get total satisfaction out of degunning tanks,especially 3Gs and Tigers (careless about getting points for that) There has never been a warning system like that in this game. You’ll know when your tracked because you can’t move and you know when your degunned because you can’t shoot. 

Do you even read or see the what the OP has written before commenting?

I'm not talking about de-track Im talking about damage tracks, it all comes to good gameplay or gameplay design.. you have to play enough games or study game development.

 

Take it for example the case where you reserve a table in a restaurant to have dinner, when you arrive you don't have a table for you, you also are not told what happen and that you will have to make another reservation for another day.. (I guess you would be very frustrate in this situation, if you had an option to wait 5 minutes to have dinner this would make less frustrating)

You can't force players to invest 20 minutes of their time or more, to be degun with no visual feedback and no option to bypass this... This is will always be frustrating a reason for people not enjoying the game.. An option to repair at least tracks is a must, degunning must be harder and has to have visual feedback.

 

Tanking in this games has many of this design problems and it's a reason after years of playing I now longer see paying to play a game that I will be continuously frustrates me.

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54 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

I'm not talking about de-track Im talking about damage tracks

The track is broke or it aint, and you get instant visual feedback right out the drivers viewport because the tank doesn't move right any more.
Track isnt the only breakable piece of mobility component on the vehicle.

Gun taken out, you find out when you pull the trigger which is much kinder and gentler than what real life my hand you in that you find out after you pull the trigger and the round jams in the guntube and maybe blows the gun up in your face.

I dont think too many tank crews in WWII said in the middle of a firefight..
Hey, we arent moving right, i think a track may be busted, hey harry go hop out and look at the track? my damage control indicator panel isnt working
and i cant get engineering on the comms.

1 hour ago, pbveteran said:

no option to bypass this...

option to bypass?
Yea i am pretty sure every player shooting some other thing would really find their day unfun when the thing they are trying to stop presses the bypass button.
IDDQD

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1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

The track is broke or it aint, and you get instant visual feedback right out the drivers viewport because the tank doesn't move right any more.
Track isnt the only breakable piece of mobility component on the vehicle.

Gun taken out, you find out when you pull the trigger which is much kinder and gentler than what real life my hand you in that you find out after you pull the trigger and the round jams in the guntube and maybe blows the gun up in your face.

I dont think too many tank crews in WWII said in the middle of a firefight..
Hey, we arent moving right, i think a track may be busted, hey harry go hop out and look at the track? my damage control indicator panel isnt working
and i cant get engineering on the comms.

 

Again you have double standards and are being hypocritical, you don't have an auto ammo counter in WW2 for every gun or a green bar when you are tired LMAO... Your crew 1 has been hit xD, An enemy tower that you can't kill the enemy soldier by shooting on the head or where he ignores you if you are not directly infront of him... Can't you admit you being a little pathetic with aurgmenting realistic features in game that isn't a full realistic representation of WW2 and are

 option to bypass?
Yea i am pretty sure every player shooting some other thing would really find their day unfun when the thing they are trying to stop presses the bypass button.
IDDQD

What do you have against pressing a button? You want a hardware lever in your pc to turn right or left in tank, a dedicated hardware gunsight to adjust your gun and do you want to go prone in front of your PC so you can go prone ingame? You are playing with a keyboard you interact with the game by pressing buttons :popcorn:

Have you ever played one of the most basic games rock, paper, scissors everything has a counter or a possible solution, having dead ends as in decisions(like you reach a door it's locked you loose the game...)this is something to be avoided. Have you ever played any game besides this one.. repair mechanisc or even other solution like towing tanks are common practices even in realistic game like Steel fury..

Edited by pbveteran

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1 hour ago, pbveteran said:

Again you have double standards and are being hypocritical, you don't have an auto ammo counter in WW2 for every gun or a green bar when you are tired LMAO... Your crew 1 has been hit xD, An enemy tower that you can't kill the enemy soldier by shooting on the head or where he ignores you if you are not directly infront of him... Can't you admit you being a little pathetic with aurgmenting realistic features in game that isn't a full realistic representation of WW2 and are

in RL you do have an idea of how many rounds you have.  In a vehicle a quick look around can tell you, at an individual level, people have different methods for loading magazines (tracers vs. non-tracer), or even order of use,  to help ID ammo remaining.  

The vehicle models in game don't render the individual stowed rounds, so while you can look around, you can't count.  Also you can't see/feel your personal gear so short of counting shots, then next best option was an indicator which was added (initial release didn't have an ammo counter) early on in the game.

That little green health bar is because you're probably nor carrying any equipment nor running/moving when you play this game.  So to simulate being something besides a machine there's a health indicator.  

As for tracking - while I'm not the decider,  most likely the ability to de-track armor vehicles will remain in the game forever.  Repairs may become a viable option one day, but , at best,  repairing a battle damaged track is an hours long process.  And that's not counting time to tows to a repair area (or parts being brought forward).      

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39 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

What do you have against pressing a button? You want a hardware lever in your pc to turn right or left in tank, a dedicated hardware gunsight to adjust your gun and do you want to go prone in front of your PC so you can go prone ingame? You are playing with a keyboard you interact with the game by pressing buttons

Really? 
That is your understanding of it? Somehow i do not believe that is what popped in your head.
You went back and edited your entire post just to say that and yet say getting tracked is a terrible waste of your time?

 

45 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

Again you have double standards and are being hypocritical, you don't have an auto ammo counter in WW2 for every gun or a green bar when you are tired LMAO... Your crew 1 has been hit xD, An enemy tower that you can't kill the enemy soldier by shooting on the head or where he ignores you if you are not directly infront of him... Can't you admit you being a little pathetic with aurgmenting realistic features in game that isn't a full realistic representation of WW2 and are

B2K already answered this very well, only thing to add
Crew XX hit in head, or legs etc, it's an old flight sim thing, it has been in the game forever because the guys came from flightsim development, Warbirds.
You could take it out it isn't really useful, it's just a silly old nostalgic thing that has been in game forever, you already know your crewmember is dead, his screen goes black, probably doesn't mean much to anyone who didnt play airwarrior and warbirds anyway.
You could probably take out all those old flightsim messages

Yes, id love to shoot the AI in the head.
I get that it's a representation of more than one guy, i dont mind putting 20 rounds in his head.
Thing is the AI is limited on purpose, its only meant to deter a mindless rush down mainstreet or a vulch camp at an airfield.
It is not meant to be an auto army to play the game for you.

You don't really want the AI to have 6 DOF and shoot you anyplace you run to do you?
I don't think anyone would find that terribly enjoyable do you? Just seriously annoying for both attacker and defender.

And no i dont think it is pathetic, you make everything you possibly can as accurate as possible and only apply the gameplay concessions
where you absolutely need to.

 

15 minutes ago, pbveteran said:

I have had bugs that work exactly like this

It isnt a bug, it was written that way on purpose so you could change positions, like jump to a tail gunner, and have the pilot hold his turn radius or climb
or jump to a gun in an FBM and have the helm maintain whatever it was doing.
You can even hop back to the position to look, and as long as you dont touch the control its maintaining, it will continue maintaining it.
It's by design, how the controller input part of the game was written 19 years ago, was not designed with an ability to turn it off, i dont think anyone has
even asked for one in all this time

Convergence and Keymapping is simply read text file if present and assign what already exists.

Want to write a new input routine?  go for it, while you are at it, add the key deltas back to the keymapper, those at least were super useful to lots of players

Asking for a truck makes sense, even if it can not be done like yesterday, but you are not asking for a truck
You are asking to disable the ability of the other guy to stop you cause you don't have a truck, which is fine for you but i highly doubt fine for the other guys no matter which faction they are playing.
Same goes for a magic repair button where no one can take out your crew while they are standing outside.

And somehow i think if you had a truck, but truck could not get to you because someone is cutting them (which if there are repair trucks you know there will be repair truck hunters) in effect making your situation the same as now
you'd be unhappy with that too.

I dont have days and hours to play all day either, look at the abysmally small amount of sorties i manage to get in.
I get tracked, i get degunned, i get shot up, i get bombed, i fly 10 minutes only to get raped by cloud demons.
Oh well, good on them, maybe i'll do better next time, or maybe i wont.

1 hour ago, pbveteran said:

Then why do we have points at all? You are just being hypocritical

You have points as a means to gain rank.
The game as a whole does not revolve around gaining rank though, it's about winning battles.
If you stopped 4 enemy heavy units from getting to battle, even if you were unable to kill them outright, you still helped your side out in a big way
and cost the other side those units, and that may have part of the deciding factor in the outcome.
If that means nothing to you, well im sorry, i can't help you there cause i dont think you'd understand.

Rank you get one way or another anyway, we dont lose any rank for dying so you wind up getting it wanted or not.

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2 hours ago, merlin51 said:

You went back and edited your entire post just to say that and yet say getting tracked is a terrible waste of your time?

It isnt a bug, it was written that way on purpose so you could change positions, like jump to a tail gunner, and have the pilot hold his turn radius or climb
or jump to a gun in an FBM and have the helm maintain whatever it was doing.
You can even hop back to the position to look, and as long as you dont touch the control its maintaining, it will continue maintaining it.
Convergence and Keymapping is simply read text file if present and assign what already exists.

Want to write a new input routine?  go for it, while you are at it, add the key deltas back to the keymapper, those at least were super useful to lots of players
Same goes for a magic repair button where no one can take out your crew while they are standing outside.

Please quote me when I ask for a repair button... xD (pretending that I ask for features I didn't and painting my ideas in different light is very disrespectful)

Man can you read English??? I'm not against losing your track, I'm against having your track damage by a small caliber gun and despite being able to move very slowly with your track which is visually fine to you and others, the result gameplay wise is the same has having lost your entire track...? My point is why have these two systems that are basically the same..., one you understand clearly and the other that is counter intuitive... If in both situations you are basically detrack why not have tracks detracked by smaller caliber guns then having this middle point...

Again you don't know what Im saying when I said I had similar bugs.. (bugs is just an unwanted or unplanned feature) is to make try to understand in code when you switch crew, a value is kept rather then being reset, this is what it all comes down to.

Convergence and Keymapping is a simply read text. (NO WRONG) you can interact or modified the key-mapping because it is saved or read from that file.. but I'm not talking about this in this sense but how it is implemented on the client and game code(the thing that does stuff with that file), the keypoint being that the game already differentiates vehicles and is able to assign different inputs to them, so adding a true or false value to reset or kept the last input by unit seems extremely easy to me, since the harder part... the differentiation is already implemented and used.

Quote

You are asking to disable the ability of the other guy to stop you cause you don't have a truck, which is fine for you but i highly doubt fine for the other guys no matter which faction they are playing.

And somehow i think if you had a truck, but truck could not get to you because someone is cutting them (which if there are repair trucks you know there will be repair truck hunters) in effect making your situation the same as now
you'd be unhappy with that too.

What hell are you talking about?.. Currently ingame to take an ATG to a contested zone I need a truck to tow it, if that trucks gets destroyed but I survived, I can then call for another player to pick me up and tow me back...  Why do you doubt the enemy would not be fine by this, he took out one truck but wasn't able to kill me and prevent another truck to pick me up, it's his fault not mine.. This is actually one of the best feature the game has.. being the lone survivor, asking for someone to save you while the enemy is hunting you..

Why would you assume me to be unhappy with more freedom and skill... with a feature that would those plus more content generation for me and for the enemy and this would be a negative...? Assumptions only show how lacking you are in argument department... 

Maybe I should have used the word freedom rather than bypass.. to make it clearer to you that I was referring to freedom of choice, a player should have.

Rest of what you wrote are double standards, stuff I didn't mention or support, lack of understanding game design and mechanics, even understanding this game at all... which again I have to admit there are features that are way too realistic and do not make sense to implement ingame, others that are too arcade to be placed together with this too realistic features.

 

By the way I reply everything in a thread to thread or post to post basis, I really don't even look at names but I will remember you named for the wrong reasons <_<, everything I write or post I try to see if it fits the game, adds something of value and it's not an unrealistic implementation considering CRS resources..

Replying just to reply and not really seeing the big picture and framing things in the greater context only makes you look bad.

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