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      Attention Soldiers Operation Fury Needs you!   02/20/2020

      Attention All Soldiers, Operation Fury needs you.  You need to choose a side and sign up.  
      For more intel on Operation Fury Please click HERE Please go to Special Event Forum (here), And sign up for allied or axis.
      This will be a CRS Lead event on both sides.  Xoom will be heading up the axis side and Heavy265 will be heading up the Allied side. This will be for bragging rights.
      Why are we asking players to sign up you ask. We are trying for a role play experience.   We want this to be a true realistic event.  
      So get up and sign up and let's make this the best event ever!!!!!!!!!!
      Give me your war cry, grrrrrrrrrrrrr
      Heavy265 **out**
Ce

For the new generation

31 posts in this topic

For you new guys who don’t know what real comms and organized ops do :)

we rolled over 60 tanks, 15 FRUs, and lined the whole SE side with over 20 ATGs. We over ran that town in 12 min. 

 

Lets get the good old days back

Edited by Ce

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What brand of potato was this recorded on? :)

In all seriousness - I hope we can see this again, rolling armour groups like that was a blast. 

 

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And how exactly did that happen?.......

...........WITHOUT AOs!!!! (and without brigades, for that matter)

 

Neither the old CRS nor the new CRS understands this simple truth; letting players (and by players, I mean individual players) organically arrange themselves and make their own choices about when and where to fight actually leads to greater organization than having the choices of the devs (AOs limited by player pop) and select groups of players imposed on all players.

 

The concepts here are fundamentally similar to the ones underlying free markets; the CRS decision to have AOs and HC top-down gameplay is like the central planning of an economy- it presumes that narrow decisions of a few (made in the name of the "common interest," that is, all people) will lead to better outcomes than the anarchic chaos of free markets (e.g. in which the economy is said to "drift" one way or the other). Giving up the centralized control results in BETTER OUTCOMES for MORE people because it gives the people with the most knowledge about player desires (the players themselves!!) freedom over their own choices. An individual player was once able to fight ANYWHERE they wanted. It was a time when, if you felt like it, you could get an attack going on any town you wanted. And amazingly, to the people who think this would result in WORSE outcomes (such as one guy moling a town), well, THANK GOD this doesn't have to be a hypothetical: WE LIVED IN THAT WORLD for YEARS, and it was unequivocally, unambgiuously BETTER in at least this one regard (again, see the above video). I have about 2,000 screenshots I can post that show what the game was like. It could be that way again if CRS would relinquish control of the map, eliminate AOs, and give control back to all *individual* players (rather than to select groups of players ostensibly making decisions on their behalf).

Edited by xanthus
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17 minutes ago, bmw2 said:

What brand of potato was this recorded on? :)

In all seriousness - I hope we can see this again, rolling armour groups like that was a blast. 

 

After 17 years, I am 100% confident that we will NEVER see this again so long as players are funneled and controlled from the top-down the way they are in this game. It might seem counter-intuitive, but less control of players rather than more leads to greater self-organization like this. If players are sitting around waiting in a tank while an armor column is formed....it should be beyond obvious that the one and only incentive they have to do so is that THEY WANT TO not that some member of HC told them to. The incentive structure of online games has ALWAYS been this way and ALWAYS will be given human nature and incentive structures involved; even in a virtual war, nobody is going to be court-martialed for not following orders. Give decision-making power to those with the most knowledge about what individual players want (the individual players themselves), and then you'll see stuff like this on a daily basis the way we used to.

 

Otherwise, I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE YOU, having been here for 17 years and seen population swings of all kinds, it does not bleedin' matter how many people are playing this game; even stratospheric numbers won't magically generate those tank columns. WE RAN THE EXPERIMENT; NO, THEY WON'T. Numbers has ZILCH to do with it.

Edited by xanthus

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9 minutes ago, xanthus said:

And how exactly did that happen?.......

...........WITHOUT AOs!!!! (and without brigades, for that matter)

 

 

Eh. nope.

Thats all post-TOEs stuff I'm quite sure.

By the way Hello Ce :)

1 minute ago, xanthus said:

 

 

Otherwise, I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE YOU

Look he guarantees in caps lock, he must be serious! 

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12 minutes ago, Lob12 said:

Look he guarantees in caps lock, he must be serious! 

 

YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'M SERIOUS!

 

"Eh. nope."

 

Eh. I have thousands of screenshots and a couple hundred videos of the pre-AO era. Judging by your post-count, you might have been there. If so, you either have a bad memory or you're delusional; in terms of player self-organization, there's a couple of light years between what the game was and what it is. 

FWIW, looks like this video was made just around the time squads were starting to die off. This "Great Dying" (of squads) wasn't something that happened over night (and nothing will fix it overnight).

 

And if this video is post-AO; scenes like this were the exception, not the rule (I was there, I know). In the pre-AO, pre-TOE era, that wasn't the case; scenes like this happened on a daily basis.

Edited by xanthus

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Ok so the incentive is created by HC, MOIC or squad COs. That particular column was done when I was MOIC and AEF CO. Taking Peer busted a massive hole in their lines. They were stacked because they knew it was a weak spot and their fallbacks weren’t set properly by Axis MOIC. We had 2 divisions to push through that hole.  Players knew this because it was relayed by HC to Players. 

 

Incentive- Take towns and win

 

Players don’t ask for much really, least than they didn’t. They wanted organization and to simply take towns. I would go through every squad channel in TS and get squads rallied and wait for the word or I would PM via chat. Put the new supply system to the side for a second (which btw if I’m reading it right, it sucks and not a good move by CRS) that doesn’t stop you from getting organized and work as a group/squad or side. This goes back to a post I made on another thread. If a new player doesn’t want to participate with the squad, buh bye! Isn’t that the whole point of a squad? Work as a team to achieve an objective? AEF has kicked many many players for not participating with the squad and I know other squads have done it too. 

 

Point in all this is that there is NO excuse for not having organized ops other than pure laziness. I GUARANTEE when I get back in game i will bring back organized ops supply be damned.

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5 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Poor tiger, stood no chance

He knew it too lol

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that you support Chelsea totally undermines your case.

Edited by actonman
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Most players want to be lead...Just takes a special kind of player to lead from the battlefield.

AO or no AO, doesn't make a difference.

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13 minutes ago, actonman said:

that you support Chelsea totally undermines your case.

You shut it :D Good to see you too!

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3 hours ago, xanthus said:

Neither the old CRS nor the new CRS understands this simple truth; letting players (and by players, I mean individual players) organically arrange themselves and make their own choices about when and where to fight actually leads to greater organization than having the choices of the devs (AOs limited by player pop) and select groups of players imposed on all players.

>Says new CRS doesn't believe in letting players organize themselves

>New CRS has made multiple posts about working on implementing player-driven, organic AOs without HC involvement

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

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TOE in its current state came with 1.27. Tigers did in 1.20. 

In 1.19 it was the initial move towards TOE with flag-activated towns.

so  xanthus could be right 

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2 minutes ago, Zebbeee said:

TOE in its current state came with 1.27. Tigers did in 1.20. 

In 1.19 it was the initial move towards TOE with flag-activated towns.

so  xanthus could be right 

He isn’t right.. When they bring up the map in the video, you see the flags in Leo and Peer.. And flags came after AOs, so it had both. 

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1 hour ago, SCKING said:

He isn’t right.. When they bring up the map in the video, you see the flags in Leo and Peer.. And flags came after AOs, so it had both. 

Yes sir your right. That was also when you had to set your fall backs and RDP actually meant something. I’ll look and see what year that video was made

Edited by Ce

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6 hours ago, xanthus said:

 

YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'M SERIOUS!

 

"Eh. nope."

 

Eh. I have thousands of screenshots and a couple hundred videos of the pre-AO era. Judging by your post-count, you might have been there. If so, you either have a bad memory or you're delusional; in terms of player self-organization, there's a couple of light years between what the game was and what it is. 

FWIW, looks like this video was made just around the time squads were starting to die off. This "Great Dying" (of squads) wasn't something that happened over night (and nothing will fix it overnight).

I'm a 2002 player with nearly 55K kills in career. I'm also a member of this game's first squad. I don't need a recap on this game history. Thank you very much

Now keep whining about an issue that has been debated to death *points to post count*

*Yawn*

Its funny that you call me delusional for just pointing out that you were wrong to say that this video was filmed during the pre-TOES era. I didn't even formulate a real opinion about TOEs in this thread, no point in beating a dead horse. 
 

Edited by Lob12

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AOs  are NOT the reason for lower population levels these days

They game is almost 20 years old and has dated graphics.  What do you expect?  

Most people don’t play one game their entire lives.  Lots of the old timers of this game are starting to get up there in age now - including me lol!

Its normal that population levels ate lower these days.  

In fact its amazing that this game even still exists today after 20 years  - and this longevity is proof that the gameplay of this game is actually pretty good compared to other games.

I personally only expect to see massive numbers of players again for this game when (and if) a completely new graphics  engine comes out for this game - a WW2 Online 2.0.

Edited by krazydog
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45 minutes ago, krazydog said:

AOs  are NOT the reason for lower population levels these days

They game is almost 20 years old and has dated graphics.  What do you expect?  

Most people don’t play one game their entire lives.  Lots of the old timers of this game are starting to get up there in age now - including me lol!

Its normal that population levels ate lower these days.  

In fact its amazing that this game even still exists today after 20 years  - and this longevity is proof that the gameplay of this game is actually pretty good compared to other games.

I personally only expect to see massive numbers of players again for this game when (and if) a completely new graphics  engine comes out for this game - a WW2 Online 2.0.

I see your points. I do want to point out though, that unless CRS can somewhat duplicate what they have now. By which I mean the same kind of overall organization and gameplay experience, it won't matter what it looks like.

I hate to mention other games, but  a certain cartoony looking fantasy game is still one of the most popular MMO games on the market, Graphics are NOT everything. Gameplay does matter more, because once the shiny bells and whistles wear off. All we're left with is quality of game play.

It's also true that a lot of players have changed how they play since this game came out. Large organized game play is harder to  organize because a lot of folks aren't willing to commit to a guild, league, squad for very long. Many of those who do are not willing to sit arounf guarding CPs or FBs.

Squads are important, but nowadays the solo players are just as important in their own way. No way anyone makes the majority of them join squads.

 

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15 hours ago, Quincannon said:

I see your points. I do want to point out though, that unless CRS can somewhat duplicate what they have now. By which I mean the same kind of overall organization and gameplay experience, it won't matter what it looks like.

I hate to mention other games, but  a certain cartoony looking fantasy game is still one of the most popular MMO games on the market, Graphics are NOT everything. Gameplay does matter more, because once the shiny bells and whistles wear off. All we're left with is quality of game play.

It's also true that a lot of players have changed how they play since this game came out. Large organized game play is harder to  organize because a lot of folks aren't willing to commit to a guild, league, squad for very long. Many of those who do are not willing to sit arounf guarding CPs or FBs.

Squads are important, but nowadays the solo players are just as important in their own way. No way anyone makes the majority of them join squads.

 

No I agree with you.  I didn’t mean to suggest that graphics alone is the key.  I meant that new graphics were needed on top of the current excellent gameplay we have now.  

The new generation of gamers need the eye candy - and that will be a necessary component (but not the only component) of a successful game which could bring in massive numbers of players again.

One more thing too - besides the gameplay and graphics, obviously the game pricing policy also  has a big impact on the number of players who will play the game too.  There are a number of factors.

Edited by krazydog

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Time is the main factor here. 

Many grew up and became fathers or started real jobs in the meantime.

I used to be a kid with tons of time on his hands, not so much now.

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Post 2012 I only managed a 20 Pz Column although this wasn't planned for days and was entirely proactive ingame.

Again this is obviously pre 1.33 and post launch in Europe due to EWS, so TOEs played no role in this is all about the number of players by playing and there were a lot of players back in the day by comparison.

Edited by pbveteran

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On 3/17/2018 at 8:25 AM, Lob12 said:

Time is the main factor here. 

Many grew up and became fathers or started real jobs in the meantime.

I used to be a kid with tons of time on his hands, not so much now.

Yup

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Windhund + others had a solid panzer column last night on Tienen. Was it this big - nope. Just as cool and fun - yep. It's all about perspective. WWIIOnline may not be at be as big as it was, and maybe not as fun for some if us older players. However, theres still plenty of fun to be had and the experience will only get better with time. 

Windhund had a few new players roll with us last night and they had a blast. Perspective. 

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