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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

waldojr

i refuse to fly or use an AAA gun.

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delems

*** So, you think that more powerful 20 mm cannon will make for a better-performing LW?

No, LW still won't fly, bombers will still be 10 to 1 in allied favor.

But, the couple new players that try axis planes for a few days, might just get a kill or two......

Then they'll be gone like the rest of us.

 

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BMBM
47 minutes ago, sixpence said:

have learned that while playing axis that if airquake becomes a problem I just log off or go play allies.

There’s your problem right there.

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BMBM
35 minutes ago, delems said:

*** So, you think that more powerful 20 mm cannon will make for a better-performing LW?

No, LW still won't fly, bombers will still be 10 to 1 in allied favor.

But, the couple new players that try axis planes for a few days, might just get a kill or two......

Then they'll be gone like the rest of us.

 

So what is your recipe for improvement? Despair and sarcasm have been proven ineffective.

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Merlin51
53 minutes ago, sixpence said:

And by the way, you can be crafty with the anti aircraft, you can't shoot when they can see you, because in this game airplanes hunt the anticraft guns. Shoot when they don't have a line of sight on you, cause once they know where you are, they will fly face first into you

That may work for Mo, but my lead gunnery sucks, so i shoot some rounds so they CAN see me, and then wait for them to come head on.
If axis, i shoot HE to attract then switch to AP, i have better luck with the 20mm AP.

Bofors i just suck with all together

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savvy

After 10 or so years of being away - I went through the password recovery system just so I could post lol on this thread.

It's like nothing has changed at all, even the game itself!

It's great to see some of the old names here in this very thread that were posting way back on day one/ish... whenever that was.

Anyway, carry on.

 

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waldojr

I think it would help balance things. Allied usually have 3 times more air than axis, and it is harder to kill, so that is why it is out of balance.  If we could kill what we shoot at it would even it out to the point of people not caring about the small differences in planes because the planes were not equal and should not be.  However when there are over 3 sets of 3 aaa guns on the ground for a ZOC and the allied fly right into it knowing they will kill you and only receive minimal damage that hurts the LW air, so being able to kill something when an HE-round explodes on a plane it does the proper damage.   I hit a DB-7 twice once with an AP round to the right engine, direct hit, seen the puff of smoke, then I hit the cockpit on his next run at me with HE round.  The concussion alone would have killed those pilots in that glass case if not make the bombs explode.  the 1 engine should have been dead no matter what with an ap round ripping through it. he killed me and flew off with no smoke, no reduction of speed and CRS website said I hit it both times.  If I am flying an e-1 and I put 1k mg into the tail of the spit I know I am not going to kill it because of the flaw in the breakpoint of the tail.  This makes me have to shoot for a wing which is a smaller target and harder hit or wait until I can get an angled shot into the cockpit when behind them.  Today I just held my fire button down as I chased a spit using all 3k mg to kill it just because was too lazy to wait for the right moment to miss it, I got the kill and hit it over 230 times before a p-38 dove on me and destroyed me, but I was not watching my back as i was engaged so that is on me.

Today I decided to fly, it started out well then 30 minutes later when the AO changed everyone did their own thing, no communication, everyone was on a different mission to places that didn't even have an AO anymore, it was a [censored]show, I stopped flying instead of going 1 against 5 planes even though we had just as many planes in the air as they had. I'm not an ace I have to fly with someone if it is more than one plane I am going against.  I will go 1 on 1 against an ace just for the learning experience, but 2 on 1 and the first guy will fly straight enough so his buddy can kill you.  As soon as I see an allied plane stop turning while I am behind him I know I have someone coming to his aid even if I don't see them behind me yet.

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hondo

I wont comment on the disparity between the aircraft. ( I have done that enough) 

 

BUT

Find a half decent bofors operator and run a little drag and bag. Really pisses the bad guys off :)

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BMBM
8 hours ago, saronin said:

You need to recognize that this is a CRS problem to solve. Being in denial that there is even in fact an issue serves no purpose. The OP is a monthly hero builder with a 2002 join date and very few posts in these forums. When people like that start posting trying to tell you there is a problem you should listen. These are the people that kept the game going even when it was a bout to fold. Simply telling them to get gooder or shouting them down in the forums when they are telling you there is a problem is the first step to pushing them out the door.   Do you really think the folks you are signing up from steam are going to stick with you as long?

No. That is CRS’s problem.

Define the problem. Seriously. I’m listening.

(FM, DM, HE, KE, ammo audits are continuously ongoing so no comments needed on those)

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Ce

I’ll be entirely honest and say that I’ve rarely flown in game and when I have it’s been a Hurri 2 or a Havoc and those planes are fast and easy to bomb with. I will also say that I rarely have ever seen any massive air quakes by the axis unless we are within 1-2k of an axis air field. I could see this as a proble for the Axis and I envy anyone who can legit fly because it’s not easy. Enigma, Rebel357, Hiiamben, Robhood, Dc, and guys like that get my 110% respect for what they can do in a plane. 

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madrebel
15 hours ago, saronin said:

You need to recognize that this is a CRS problem to solve. Being in denial that there is even in fact an issue serves no purpose. The OP is a monthly hero builder with a 2002 join date and very few posts in these forums. When people like that start posting trying to tell you there is a problem you should listen. These are the people that kept the game going even when it was a bout to fold. Simply telling them to get gooder or shouting them down in the forums when they are telling you there is a problem is the first step to pushing them out the door.   Do you really think the folks you are signing up from steam are going to stick with you as long?

No. That is CRS’s problem.

Not a builder, but a month 2 2001 join date, and someone who lived through the first FM audit and faced actual insane lopsided numbers and flew exclusively in the north against the spit hordes back when 4wing was not only healthy but they could put up 20 pilots on their own with eagle squadron chipping in another handful or two ... thats before you get to the non squad randoms ... there is only one component of this that is really entirely on CRS.

 

More than anything the LW needs gameplay to exist that currently doesn't.

-airfields need to be bombable - you literally cannot re-enact the BoB without airfields that can be attacked. 

-interdiction to behind the lines airfields

-RDP that means something

-LW needs a properly simulated sky/atmosphere almost as bad as the ground game needs proper simulated terrain.

 

Its not that CRS past or present did anything to favor the allies. Its just that the gameplay has devolved to the point where the planes that turn well are the only planes that really interact with the was the game plays ATM. If the new team can figure out how to open up the airwar again that there is a defend AND destroy element you'll see the LW come roaring back. as long as the gameplay favors .... as long as the gameplay consists of ENTIRELY CAS missions you'll continue to see what we have meow.

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saronin
13 minutes ago, madrebel said:

Not a builder, but a month 2 2001 join date, and someone who lived through the first FM audit and faced actual insane lopsided numbers and flew exclusively in the north against the spit hordes back when 4wing was not only healthy but they could put up 20 pilots on their own with eagle squadron chipping in another handful or two ... thats before you get to the non squad randoms ... there is only one component of this that is really entirely on CRS.

 

More than anything the LW needs gameplay to exist that currently doesn't.

-airfields need to be bombable - you literally cannot re-enact the BoB without airfields that can be attacked. 

-interdiction to behind the lines airfields

-RDP that means something

-LW needs a properly simulated sky/atmosphere almost as bad as the ground game needs proper simulated terrain.

 

Its not that CRS past or present did anything to favor the allies. Its just that the gameplay has devolved to the point where the planes that turn well are the only planes that really interact with the was the game plays ATM. If the new team can figure out how to open up the airwar again that there is a defend AND destroy element you'll see the LW come roaring back. as long as the gameplay favors .... as long as the gameplay consists of ENTIRELY CAS missions you'll continue to see what we have meow.

Best of luck. S!

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Ce

As an allied player mostly, the Axis always suffered from RDP. The RDP war was lost by the Axis every time and was massively unbalanced. Which is why it got nerfed or tweaked or even taken away. A legit RDP system would be awesome if it could be balanced 

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madrebel

in theory, one on that list is already being worked on. The move back to town supply will be fantastic for the LW. Presuming of course that whatever comes next for supply does NOT allow either HC to stack planes at the closest possible airfield. planes need to be split across near line air fields and players need to fly more than half a square to reach target.

 

if that comes back, that alone will go a long way towards relieving the LWs woes.

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madrebel
2 minutes ago, Ce said:

As an allied player mostly, the Axis always suffered from RDP. The RDP war was lost by the Axis every time and was massively unbalanced. Which is why it got nerfed or tweaked or even taken away. A legit RDP system would be awesome if it could be balanced 

this is true but your insinuation .... actually i won't put words in your mouth. what i read from your words is "the RDP system inherently favored the allies".

 

I'll agree to that, however, the reason for this is simple. the first pass at EWS for RDP bombers was laughable. with the speed of the db7 and the lack of buffer towns around the factories allied pilots could skirt the map and hit the factories at will. that was the biggest problem. the inherent speed differences also a problem but really, it was the fact that CRS didn't have a game system in place to allow the players to have this defend and destroy gameplay. all it really was was "destroy as fast as possible" and that, due to the speed of the planes and lack of EWS, did end up significantly favoring the allies.

 

i argued with DOC to bring back this RDP functionality once the new AWS system was put in place, it was refused. 

 

i'll do it again -

Xoom, you need to consider bringing back RDP that actually hurts! Don't be like DOC and over look the fact that we did NOT have the ability to properly defend ourselves, AWS makes defense an actual possibility. 

Airfields need to be destroyable. <-- period. You cannot simulate war or WW2 if airfields themselves are not valid targets. If you re-enable RDP and you figure out how to make airfields vulnerable you'll have some gameplay for the air. 

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BMBM
1 hour ago, saronin said:

I had a post that defined the problem with numbers to back it up. It got censored and I got warned. Clearly CRS doesn’t want to hear it. I am no longer holding out hope that I along with the rest of my squad are coming back once CRS screws their head on straight. 

It was a good sixteen years. Best of luck. S!

I don't recall the post but if it was based on stats, know that stats doesn't define the problem, all stat does is to give an idea of the symptoms. 

I'd be happy to hear what unique problems LW face that the Allies don't, if you can describe them. 

There's all kinds of goodness coming down the pike and the game continues to evolve - based on rational fact-based input and the desire to put more flesh on the skeleton. 

Edited by bmbm
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BMBM
45 minutes ago, madrebel said:

More than anything the LW needs gameplay to exist that currently doesn't.

-airfields need to be bombable - you literally cannot re-enact the BoB without airfields that can be attacked. 

-interdiction to behind the lines airfields

-RDP that means something

-LW needs a properly simulated sky/atmosphere almost as bad as the ground game needs proper simulated terrain.

- Bombable airfields is a concept that would strike both ways. Are you sure you want it? What if all your forward airfields are bombed and there's nothing to spawn?

- Not sure what you mean with interdiction of rear airfields. Do you mean road/rail infrastructure damage? Ferry drones that you can shoot down?

- RDP does mean something but if, like it was before, it means to much, its limiting effects makes people log off. Draconian results means less targets, less battles, less enjoyment.

- I'd say both sides needs that. 

In sum, you're describing items that are not LW-specific but applicable to all.

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madrebel
4 minutes ago, bmbm said:

I don't recall the post but if it was based on stats, know that stats that doesn't define the problem, all stat does is to give an idea of the symptoms. 

I'd be happy to hear what unique problems LW face that the Allies don't, if you can describe them. 

There's all kinds of goodness coming down the pike and the game continues to evolve - based on rational fact-based input and the desire to put more flesh on the skeleton. 

the LW are disadvantaged more than the RaF by the game's current gameplay.

 

an anaolgy would be this game is forcing the flying tigers to turn fight with the Japanese ... because that is the only type of fighting you can reasonably find anymore. with different gameplay options per-combat positioning now means something. picking the fight on your terms means something. altitude needs to mean something right now the more altitude you have the more speed you need to bleed for your drop. the less you're worried about getting shot down on the way to combat the easier it is for you to find a target and bomb it accurately. 

 

now add the terrible grey fishbowl that makes picking up targets more difficult (from altitude) and greatly complicates maintaining spacial awareness in 3d space while maneuvering and it really shouldn't surprise anyone that nobody is playing LW. people do things that are fun. this game used to have a LOT more LW flying. it doesn't currently.

technically everything i just said hampers the allied pilot too, but, the allied pilot has a choice to conduct his mission in a different way and NOT sacrifice as much because the allied planes generally out turn the german planes. they can be flown stupidly, more easily. so people do.

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madrebel
3 minutes ago, bmbm said:

- Bombable airfields is a concept that would strike both ways. Are you sure you want it? What if all your forward airfields are bombed and there's nothing to spawn?

- Not sure what you mean with interdiction of rear airfields. Do you mean road/rail infrastructure damage? Ferry drones that you can shoot down?

- RDP does mean something but if, like it was before, it means to much, its limiting effects makes people log off. Draconian results means less targets, less battles, less enjoyment.

- I'd say both sides needs that. 

In sum, you're describing items that are not LW-specific but applicable to all.

1) yes, more than anything i want to be able to turn off an AF via bombs. this doesn't just kill the air game this absolutely destroys the ground game anytime an AF is the target. having planes literally use the FLAK umbrella to keep them safe while bombing from safety ... has to go. in addition, that is what war is. your question is essentially "well what if you log on and the MOIC messed up"? ... yeah it happens. I used to fly from Dusseldorf to the front every night for squad ops. Allowed us to shoot the [censored] while slowly gaining altitude and we could all get planes. The current pilot in this game is coddled greatly. It takes 5m to fly from a rear town ... suck it up.

2)because number 1 used to be true, you had to fly from r ear airfields to the front. This left you vulnerable to CAP elements hunting you down. This used to create incredible running fights between my squad and 4wing where we would fight for the lanes between air fields and the front picking off anything/everything we could. I fondly remember 10+ red circles trailing me trying to chase me down while tucking my nose and flaming a blen ... i'm sure those 10 spits felt helpless but thems the breaks. the only allied pilot i ever saw routinely feast on ingress lanes like this was ... i forget his name now but he was one of a small number that was consistently in the top 5 on the allied side. wasn't spdycpu he preferred to just out dog fight you.

3) we dont know what RDP may or may not be with AWS. we know what 'painful' rdp was like with terrible EWS. there has to be middle ground.

4) LW needs it more. LW has to maintain altitude advantage as it has no other true trump card to play. you can be successful TnB on the deck but you have to be significantly better on the stick than your opponent. allies can choose to fly BnZ and IMO the french rides are incredible for this, its how i fly them when i fly allied. why don't they though? a spitfire above you with say 500m altitude and co-speed ... that should be 90% a spitfire victory yet so few take the time to afford themselves such an advantageous position ... why? cause they dont have too and its easier to just TnB in a plane that does that well too.

 

so no, these aren't universal things applicable equally to all. your insistence that this is the case doesn't help anything.

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BMBM

The signal I'm getting here is that the LW, being mainly equipped with B&Z fighters, can't B&Z because all your targets are on the deck and turnfighting and because the fishbowl doesn't extend far enough. As you say, that pertains equally to Allied fighters wishing to engage in B&Z. In fact, this B&Z vs T&B dilemma is persistent over ALL flight sims. As a FAF B&Z aficionado I can relate to your woes but that never stopped me from getting kills.

What we DO need is a fully fleshed out RDP war with the heavy bombers to go with it. Slow bombers is what every fighter jock wants for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and that's what brings out escorts and high altitude fights - alleviating the ground AQ and furball silliness.

I wish I could say something about development in that direction, alas, my lips are sealed.

 

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madrebel

Here, I'll go you one further and let's see if fufu backs me up here.

 

In this game, as it is right now, if the P-51 mustang arrived in game tomorrow it would be statistically the worst plane in game. Let's presume for a second the model, the FM and DM both, were absolutely spot on. For the first time ever a model so perfect everyone agrees. 

 

That plane would still be statistically the worst plane in game. Why? It's mission, the reason the plane was built in the first place ... doesn't exist. There is no reason to have a plane that flies fast, at altitude, for a long time, in mostly straight lines. Escorting bombers is why the P51 was built. Without that mission type the plane will suck in this game where it will be employed as a CAS plane. granted, a mission the P51 ended up doing well ... when there was no LW left to contend with. 

 

The 109 was designed to climb and perform well at altitudes well above 3km. it is being forced to fight below 3km, fixed targets, with little choice as to the how. why is is so out of bounds to suggest the lower wing loaded allied rides suffer significantly less from this lack of gameplay?

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BMBM

Let's not make this a Spit bash. Spits are and were historically gifted in the turning department - there's no way it's going to be otherwise here. Of course people gravitate to the easiest, most well-rounded solution - that's just human nature.

15 minutes ago, madrebel said:

so no, these aren't universal things applicable equally to all. your insistence that this is the case doesn't help anything.

Uh... yes, your points apply equally to all, including greater vis distance. LW doesn't need alt/visibility any more than the French do, and what we have is perfectly adequate even if it's not perfect. I've always thought of T&Bers as fodder - especially when bringing a wingman.

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madrebel
6 minutes ago, bmbm said:

 As you say, that pertains equally to Allied fighters wishing to engage in B&Z. In fact, this B&Z vs T&B dilemma is persistent over ALL flight sims. As a FAF B&Z aficionado I can relate to your woes but that never stopped me from getting kills.

What we DO need is a fully fleshed out RDP war with the heavy bombers to go with it. Slow bombers is what every fighter jock wants for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and that's what brings out escorts and high altitude fights - alleviating the ground AQ and furball silliness.

I wish I could say something about development in that direction, alas, my lips are sealed.

 

1) your words say it all "allied fighters "wishing" ... allied pilots have this choice. LW pilots don't. Presuming here that the assumption is "the player wishes to advantage himself". Right, allied pilots can choose to start from an advantageous postition, or, they can choose to participate in advantageous fight conditions. the LW doesn't have that choice ... well if he is expecting a fight. the LW pilot can fly around  above 3KM all day and choose to be in an advantageous position ... he'll fly till he runs out of gas and not see a single EA contact though.

1a) your words again ... you mention this has always been an issue. yes and no. this has always been a discussion yes, by the uninitiated and will continue to be forever. this is no different than fordVSchevy. however, this game did NOT used to be like this exclusively so this is an erroneous argument on your part. it doesn't matter that people will argue about BnZ and TnB. This game used to have something that it doesn't now that gave the BnZ pilot more choice. <-period

 

RDP without resolving the ... idk what the term is so i'll just describe it. The space between my player camera and infinity. In the real world this is crystal clear, even when it has clouds in it the "space between stuff" in real life isn't grey monocrhome. our sky needs a significant contrast face lift. visibility, clarity, whatever your term we need it so we can seriously talk about removing or changing plane indicators. as it stands we need those damn indicators or you can't ID anything due to the lack of graphical contrast.  adding big slow bombers would be great but we need (chem)contrails, clouds, clarity, etc more.

 

i'd settle though just to get back the blue sky this game used to have and a B17 in T1 

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BMBM

If you think the Pony is a bad turner, think again. 

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madrebel
1 minute ago, bmbm said:

Uh... yes, your points apply equally to all

and this is reflected in game?

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madrebel
Just now, bmbm said:

If you think the Pony is a bad turner, think again. 

high wing loading and low power to weight ... yeah its incredible at turn fighting ...

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