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madrebel

Fixing the airwar

145 posts in this topic

55 minutes ago, bmbm said:

First off, the idea that you absolutely HAVE to fight at the AO is just that, an idea that has taken hold in your collective heads. Like Bogol says, there are any number of ways of creating fights outside the AO - and there are still more, if you put your mind to it. I really don't wish to lecture on the topic, but since you asked:

1. RDP bombing is a two-way street. The Allies aren't doing it because you aren't doing it - one side has to start and the other will follow to even out the score. So, in order to produce bombers to intercept, you have to man up and do the same. You don't necessarily have to suffer the slow He-111, you can do a credible job with a formation of Bf-110s of which you have plenty. They are fast, faster than the DBs, and can defend themselves better in a pickle. As an added bonus you can and should fly an 109 escort and hey presto you've got an air battle, at altitude, on your hands. Once you've bombed a few factories you're likely to meet interceptors en route, and bombers going the other way.

2. Drag and bag isn't confined to AO's. You can do it anywhere. Show a bit of skirt and have your wingman sort out the dummies. Works every time, anywhere. You just have to show up. 

3. Barcap - of course. You KNOW that every crate at the AO must perforce head out from somewhere, so meet them halfway. If you can't see them from nosebleed altitude, go down lower, and bring a wingman or three. If you don't want to risk it down below there, why, would you have a better chance at the AO? Layer your elements for greater pwn. 

4. Vulchcap. Not my favourite on account of the flak, but hey it's up to you. A close barcap is better IMO, and a barcap that comprises two low legs and a third party at altitude is bloody hard to counter. Before you know it you have a real fight on your hands in a great swathe of the sky, just like you wanted - and the added bonus is that the AO is suddenly clear of EA.

Need more? OK, here's a few:

5. Run a bait mission - know that the enemy will nearly always follow red boxes around, so mass up and create a fight of your liking on territory of your liking. Spice it with Heinkels or Stukas for laughs if you will, but you can do just as well without. If you don't get any takers, skirt an AO and see what you can produce.

6. Bomb airfields even though there's no payoff - it's certain to bring a low and slow reception, just like you want it. And you get to practice for future opportunities.

7. Set up a flak trap and defend it in the air too. You'll encounter a fair sprinkling of bombers and fighter-bombers intent on taking down the flak, so feast upon them.

8. At the AO, boom right through it and drag target-fixated enemy some distance away to waiting friends (a minute or two away from the AO is good enough, if you can entice them further away, so much the better). Works like a charm, if you have friends. When the herd is culled, your waiting barcap will have more than enough fodder. You don't HAVE to circle the AO just because it's there - use it only as a means to produce suitable targets.

Do away with the lonewolf turnandburn mentality. Lead people, in formation, and you WILL be the force that produces fights. If you're not seeing any concerted action at or away from AOs it's because YOU didn't step up to create it. It's your choice really - you don't HAVE to succumb to the lowest common denominator.

1) isn't being done because it just doesn't matter enough - and - this is more of a russian style mission. meaning, all you need to do is bring bombers. escorting at altitude is very challenging due to the relatively small 'knowable' bubble we're in. all the sudden you're at 6km and out of nowhere circles start popping in. need more visible distance, contrails, etc for this to really be great. for now just zerg bombers ... however these flights are well outside the scope of what the average person has time for. period. this activity just isn't feasible to do regularly and when you do, really only one aspect of it needs any attention.

2) everything in this game is confined to AOs. you can only do it where there are targets to drag and bag. i know in your nirvana this isn't the case but here on earth with the rest of us ... this is the case. so have fun dragging and bagging sheep over non AOd airspace.

3) every airfield has a 5km early warning flak system. barcap isn't effective anymore and hasn't been since TOEs allowed unrealistic stacking of all resources as close as possible with no risk.

4) again, 5KM deadly flak. you're suggesting players create rheir own gameplay by risking suicide. great idea.

5) why would anyone chase down a red square? ohnos, a factory run ... oh wait i can safely ignore the first one. have fun with your red square dance, the rest of the players will concentrate in the areas that have some affect. again, your suggesting players 'create gameplay' by wasting their [censored] time? may as well jerk off in a sock.

6) again with the jerking off into a sock. so hey new palyers, this out of touch old timer wants you to fly around completely wasting your time for maybe possibly some seal clubbing. whoo hoo ... 

7) so ... do something that directly involves the ground ... around an AO. so create our own gameplay by interacting with the gameplay that already exists. super.

8) might actually work - and always has. nothing new here but still, same airspace directly over the AP that isn't far from the front line AF and its 5KM flak screen that I can't do anything about. may get one or two but the moment i put someone in a bad place they're just going to tuck tail and head to the safety of their invulnerable near line airfield. 

 

you lead old man. you're such an authority on the what and why, you show us. get in there old timer and show these whipper snappers how its done.

 

p.s. you're [censored] high and grossly out of touch. 

*edit* the irony is you're a realism guy raging against my idea that moves closer towards realism than anything we've ever had. are you seriously off your meds? you didn't used to be this pig headed.

Edited by madrebel

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FWIW, my recipe for bringing the Air War up to speed:

1. Bombers. You HAVE to have bombers that motor away to distant targets - and thus you need TARGETS in the rear with an incentive strong enough to go for them, and to defend them, without making their devastation absolutely crippling to gameplay at large. This is the #1 failing over time and it MUST be remedied. Jerry needs a fast bomber and the Allies need slow'uns.

2. Bombers begets escorts and interceptors. Nuff said.

3. More interdictable supply - at airfields, ports, RR marshalling yards (where ARE they?), bridges and roads. Pepper the terrain with targets and they will be blown up for greater glory.

4. Leaders. Lonewolves don't get to complain about lonewolfing practice. Just like bombers begets interceptors, formations begets formations. Team up!

5. Fancy new airplanes and fancy new ordnance. Rockets and Tallboys, what's not to like?

HE/KE/overstress when introduced will make for a better game, but that alone won't fix the air war. 

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3 hours ago, vanapo said:

. And so what I literally said is: The plane that's better at scoring kills rather than hits IN GENERAL in this game is the plane that's better at peppering its opponent so it might hit the pilot. Multiple 40mms hits on the structure won't secure a kill. Multiple 30mm hits won't secure a kill and mutliple 20mm hit's won't for sure. The more rounds at the more angles flying through the totally empty structure that is a plane in this game (with no vital components other than the pilot and the engine) will increase your chance to score a kill a lot.  That's why a plane with a lot of MGs firing at different angles is a way better kill scorer in this game than a bird with cannons even though every report from WW2 will tell you the exact opposite.

 

Well let me tell you, I almost never go for pilot kills. And I do manage to get a quite a few kills. So, you keep trying going for the PK, spray and pray, whatever you name it, and continue to be frustrated and think something is seriously wrong with the game. 

Or, take a plane that actually has cannons and rip their wings apart and see them fall from the skies in a ball of fire. Your claims are absolutely contrary to my experience in this game. And I do have quite a bit of experience at killing them RAF and FAF foes.

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3 hours ago, vanapo said:

To the other point: In regard to bombable airfields I don't see your logic. How should that bring back more LW pilots? We all agree numbers are too low right now. So you got 20 allied pilots and 3 LW pilots flying at a given moment. So the 20 allied planes will start bombing the closest LW airfield of an AO instead of the AO. So you encourage Spawn-Camping or force the remainng 2 LW pilots to lift from even farer away. LW bomber kill counts are outnumbered 10 to 1 as it is right now. How many 111 with a top speed and survivabilty to laugh at do you think gonna still lift after you make their AFs contested?

How does "adding new ways to use your air superiority" solve anything for the main problem "one side has total air superiority ALL THE TIME"?

OK, just for you I will explain this one more time, even if I have done this already TWICE in those fora. 

So hoarde of leet DB7s congregate to our AFs to bomb them (let them be mobile or not). Since there is some degree of protection from AA, they wont come in a deck level, they have to have some ALT. Get it yet? Ok, prly not, so I will continue. 

One or 2 or 3 or however many LW players are on see RED SQUARE over So and So AF. They decide not to lift there, because they have half a chicken brain. They lift from behind, gain some ALT, and voila, FEED ON THEM bombers. Like they are meant to do. From alt, with E, and all the other Dicta Boelke.

After them DB7 get wreked, they are calling for some l33t sp33tfirez friends to help. Again, at ALT. So, fight is at ALT now. Do you get it finally?

Edit. Regarding LW bombing AFs, they can go in at 5km, and use their awesome payloads and great sights and b00m. Voila. RAF/FAF will be forced to intercept at alt. LW will react by escorting. See, it works out.

Yes, numbers matter, so LW wont really be able to be offensive on this aspect of the game  at the start, until we stabilize numbers. 

 

Edit2: I bet if the Bombable AFs are introduced with proper WB soldier, you will see an influx of old LW players come back, and maybe many will stick. So, numbers problem might be solved as well. Maybe...

Edited by bogol

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8 minutes ago, madrebel said:

escorting at altitude is very challenging due to the relatively small 'knowable' bubble we're in. all the sudden you're at 6km and out of nowhere circles start popping in. need more visible distance, contrails, etc for this to really be great.

Challenging but no where near impossible. My guess is that you haven't really tried it properly. If closure is small you have all the time in the world to react. If it's a HO merge, let them blow through and kill them when they reverse to go after the bombers.

10 minutes ago, madrebel said:

everything in this game is confined to AOs

Aircraft don't spawn there. Find them halfway.

11 minutes ago, madrebel said:

3) every airfield has a 5km early warning flak system. barcap isn't effective anymore and hasn't been since TOEs allowed unrealistic stacking of all resources as close as possible with no risk.

I suggested, half in jest, that we do away with AF flak. As I recall you were opposed to the idea. Barcap is about getting kills and stopping some of the enemy to filter through to the AO - not about draining supply. It IS effective, but I suppose you haven't tried it much, or properly enough.

15 minutes ago, madrebel said:

4) again, 5KM deadly flak. you're suggesting players create rheir own gameplay by risking suicide. great idea.

You want bombable airfields but no flak, but uh flak to keep you safe when you spawn, so how do you want it?

17 minutes ago, madrebel said:

5) why would anyone chase down a red square? ohnos, a factory run ... oh wait i can safely ignore the first one.

You can't safely ignore a persistent RDP effort. Again I don't think you've tried it enough to comment with credibility.

 

18 minutes ago, madrebel said:

7) so ... do something that directly involves the ground ... around an AO. so create our own gameplay by interacting with the gameplay that already exists. super.

You don't have to be precisely at the AO. Somewhere in between works better. However you need DEDICATED people and perhaps you're not it.

19 minutes ago, madrebel said:

8) might actually work

I practically made a living out of this, so yes, it DOES work.

20 minutes ago, madrebel said:

you lead old man. you're such an authority on the what and why, you show us. get in there old timer and show these whipper snappers how its done.

I did this consistently for years, and with H75s and D520s against 109s to boot. I can't help you anymore because I'm busy with OTHER STUFF, so now it's up to YOU. But if you're happier slinging mud and calling names than doing something productive... well, that's on you. 

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1 hour ago, bmbm said:

First off, the idea that you absolutely HAVE to fight at the AO is just that, an idea that has taken hold in your collective heads. Like Bogol says, there are any number of ways of creating fights outside the AO - and there are still more, if you put your mind to it. I really don't wish to lecture on the topic, but since you asked:

1. RDP bombing is a two-way street. The Allies aren't doing it because you aren't doing it - one side has to start and the other will follow to even out the score. So, in order to produce bombers to intercept, you have to man up and do the same. You don't necessarily have to suffer the slow He-111, you can do a credible job with a formation of Bf-110s of which you have plenty. They are fast, faster than the DBs, and can defend themselves better in a pickle. As an added bonus you can and should fly an 109 escort and hey presto you've got an air battle, at altitude, on your hands. Once you've bombed a few factories you're likely to meet interceptors en route, and bombers going the other way.

2. Drag and bag isn't confined to AO's. You can do it anywhere. Show a bit of skirt and have your wingman sort out the dummies. Works every time, anywhere. You just have to show up. 

3. Barcap - of course. You KNOW that every crate at the AO must perforce head out from somewhere, so meet them halfway. If you can't see them from nosebleed altitude, go down lower, and bring a wingman or three. If you don't want to risk it down below there, why, would you have a better chance at the AO? Layer your elements for greater pwn. 

4. Vulchcap. Not my favourite on account of the flak, but hey it's up to you. A close barcap is better IMO, and a barcap that comprises two low legs and a third party at altitude is bloody hard to counter. Before you know it you have a real fight on your hands in a great swathe of the sky, just like you wanted - and the added bonus is that the AO is suddenly clear of EA.

Need more? OK, here's a few:

5. Run a bait mission - know that the enemy will nearly always follow red boxes around, so mass up and create a fight of your liking on territory of your liking. Spice it with Heinkels or Stukas for laughs if you will, but you can do just as well without. If you don't get any takers, skirt an AO and see what you can produce.

6. Bomb airfields even though there's no payoff - it's certain to bring a low and slow reception, just like you want it. And you get to practice for future opportunities.

7. Set up a flak trap and defend it in the air too. You'll encounter a fair sprinkling of bombers and fighter-bombers intent on taking down the flak, so feast upon them.

8. At the AO, boom right through it and drag target-fixated enemy some distance away to waiting friends (a minute or two away from the AO is good enough, if you can entice them further away, so much the better). Works like a charm, if you have friends. When the herd is culled, your waiting barcap will have more than enough fodder. You don't HAVE to circle the AO just because it's there - use it only as a means to produce suitable targets.

Do away with the lonewolf turnandburn mentality. Lead people, in formation, and you WILL be the force that produces fights. If you're not seeing any concerted action at or away from AOs it's because YOU didn't step up to create it. It's your choice really - you don't HAVE to succumb to the lowest common denominator.

 

I agree drag and bag can be extended forever. But it has to start somewhere (usually where eas are) and I'd rather make it quick, than run for 10 squares. My approach. Have a wingman dive in as soon as we clear the AO area, and finish the fool that latched on. 

with all due respect bmbm, I really don't think you have enough game time RECENT experience in LW to tell me how to get my kills. And trust me, when I am on, I get PLENTY of them. Just ask your RAF n00blettes girlfriends. In the low, unbalanced numbers environment, I found a way to thrive. 

yes, as I said in another thread that got bombed, I really respect you for making the Guide to the virutual pilot available, it was immensely helpful to me, and to countless others, I bet. 

And I really really take offencse to your (Do away with the lonewolf turnandburn mentality.) You HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Just ask around...

Edited by bogol

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Ok bogol so the damage modell is fine, the spit should stay as it is, we don't need no HE overhaul. Maybe they should stop working on it. In the end at least you get a good kill ratio (which seems to make you quite special in the LW) and you keep flying LW (which makes you even more special). Thank you for your service. It is welcome because it seems like nobody else is willing to serve anymore.

I won't repeat my point again. I think we agree to disagree about how giving allies more things to drop bombs on while not being low and slow and directly affecting the possibilty of LW to lift at all in the process will help at bringing back LW pilots.

I think bmbms suggestion of bombable infastructure to be a more valuable target seems far more attractive - at least to me. What about a AI choo choo train or at least a train depot? It doesn't have to be back in Düsseldorf to be of some importance to the war effort....

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18 minutes ago, vanapo said:

Ok bogol so the damage modell is fine, the spit should stay as it is, we don't need no HE overhaul. Maybe they should stop working on it. In the end at least you get a good kill ratio (which seems to make you quite special in the LW) and you keep flying LW (which makes you even more special). Thank you for your service. It is welcome because it seems like nobody else is willing to serve anymore.

I won't repeat my point again. I think we agree to disagree about how giving allies more things to drop bombs on while not being low and slow and directly affecting the possibilty of LW to lift at all in the process will help at bringing back LW pilots.

I think bmbms suggestion of bombable infastructure to be a more valuable target seems far more attractive - at least to me. What about a AI choo choo train or at least a train depot? It doesn't have to be back in Düsseldorf to be of some importance to the war effort....

I am NOT saying the damage model is fine. I am saying you can find ways to kill them more efficiently than parking your plane behind them and trying to go for the lucky PK.

Love AI trains idea!

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1 minute ago, bogol said:

I am saying you can find ways to kill them more efficiently than parking your plane behind them and trying to go for the lucky PK.

We are on the same page here. I'd say the same especially if you fly LW. My point is that doing the parking is way more effective than it should be - especially for RAF - due to named reasons. And that pxxxes off a lot of LW pilots including myself.

If things are fixed some day I'd like to see something lilke AI trains moving stuff around - it would be nice to be able to hit infrastructure not for RDP but for slowing down brigade movement (or restocking of supply) in that specific sector. Such attacks could make the game more dynamic and  would encourage combined warfare ("destroy their depots because they gonna try to reinforce/pull out").

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1 minute ago, vanapo said:

We are on the same page here. I'd say the same especially if you fly LW. My point is that doing the parking is way more effective than it should be - especially for RAF - due to named reasons. And that pxxxes off a lot of LW pilots including myself.

If things are fixed some day I'd like to see something lilke AI trains moving stuff around - it would be nice to be able to hit infrastructure not for RDP but for slowing down brigade movement (or restocking of supply) in that specific sector. Such attacks could make the game more dynamic and  would encourage combined warfare ("destroy their depots because they gonna try to reinforce/pull out").

Yes, AI driven resupply trains would be AMAZING. Truly superb, if introduced, ever. Game-changing for the n00bs. Would make ranking so much easier, and FUN. 

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1 hour ago, bmbm said:

I did this consistently for years, and with H75s and D520s against 109s to boot. I can't help you anymore because I'm busy with OTHER STUFF, so now it's up to YOU. But if you're happier slinging mud and calling names than doing something productive... well, that's on you. 

the game plays nothing like it did when you were around old timer. [censored] off if all youre going to do is talk about your glory days.

 

here is the problem in simple pictures - perhaps this gets through.

yvpxH8F.jpg

UhxqgKk.jpg

 

red is primary airspace between the nearest front line fields. add in more than 1 AO and the cross traffic between those zones gets really high.

Edited by madrebel

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1 hour ago, bmbm said:

Challenging but no where near impossible. My guess is that you haven't really tried it properly. If closure is small you have all the time in the world to react. If it's a HO merge, let them blow through and kill them when they reverse to go after the bombers.

Aircraft don't spawn there. Find them halfway.

I suggested, half in jest, that we do away with AF flak. As I recall you were opposed to the idea. Barcap is about getting kills and stopping some of the enemy to filter through to the AO - not about draining supply. It IS effective, but I suppose you haven't tried it much, or properly enough.

You want bombable airfields but no flak, but uh flak to keep you safe when you spawn, so how do you want it?

You can't safely ignore a persistent RDP effort. Again I don't think you've tried it enough to comment with credibility.

 

You don't have to be precisely at the AO. Somewhere in between works better. However you need DEDICATED people and perhaps you're not it.

I practically made a living out of this, so yes, it DOES work.

I did this consistently for years, and with H75s and D520s against 109s to boot. I can't help you anymore because I'm busy with OTHER STUFF, so now it's up to YOU. But if you're happier slinging mud and calling names than doing something productive... well, that's on you. 

and with this you've made it abundantly clear how out of touch you are. 

 

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1 hour ago, bogol said:

with all due respect bmbm, I really don't think you have enough game time RECENT experience in LW to tell me how to get my kills. And trust me, when I am on, I get PLENTY of them. Just ask your RAF n00blettes girlfriends.

I flew quite a lot in the past 6 months, daily for hours on stretch, although much of it under another name. I flew allied and axis alike, in the lowliest a/c. And I don’t do RAF, except for the Hurri2C. 

At this juncture I don’t play at all - all my free time goes to producing game content.

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1 hour ago, bogol said:

OK, just for you I will explain this one more time, even if I have done this already TWICE in those fora. 

So hoarde of leet DB7s congregate to our AFs to bomb them (let them be mobile or not). Since there is some degree of protection from AA, they wont come in a deck level, they have to have some ALT. Get it yet? Ok, prly not, so I will continue. 

One or 2 or 3 or however many LW players are on see RED SQUARE over So and So AF. They decide not to lift there, because they have half a chicken brain. They lift from behind, gain some ALT, and voila, FEED ON THEM bombers. Like they are meant to do. From alt, with E, and all the other Dicta Boelke.

After them DB7 get wreked, they are calling for some l33t sp33tfirez friends to help. Again, at ALT. So, fight is at ALT now. Do you get it finally?

Edit. Regarding LW bombing AFs, they can go in at 5km, and use their awesome payloads and great sights and b00m. Voila. RAF/FAF will be forced to intercept at alt. LW will react by escorting. See, it works out.

Yes, numbers matter, so LW wont really be able to be offensive on this aspect of the game  at the start, until we stabilize numbers. 

 

Edit2: I bet if the Bombable AFs are introduced with proper WB soldier, you will see an influx of old LW players come back, and maybe many will stick. So, numbers problem might be solved as well. Maybe...

in my drawings look at the space that opens up the moment the primary airfields are knocked out. before TOEs and endless flag swapping or just outright stacking the world on one AF the close AFs naturally went 'offline' as soon as their supply list was used up. with bombable AFs we can force this again by just knocking out the AFs opening up the airspace significantly. the new mission type is just the tool i want to use to open up the airspace again. the fights in this mission type while kick [censored] really are secondary to my objective.

 

open up the airspace and allow players the ability to -with concerned effort - bomb an AF till its dead. whatever that ends up being i'm ultimately after more roaming space. using a would be new gameplay type that is also realistic to get that seems like the best route. i'm sure bmbm disagrees with his wealth of deep understanding for the hows and whys of the game over the past 15 years he's been gone. 

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3 minutes ago, bmbm said:

I flew quite a lot in the past 6 months, daily for hours on stretch, although much of it under another name. I flew allied and axis alike, in the lowliest a/c. And I don’t do RAF, except for the Hurri2C. 

At this juncture I don’t play at all - all my free time goes to producing game content.

That does not give you NO right to:

1. Infer that I am a lonewolf. Because you make a fool out of yourself if you do so. Maybe you flew in one of my missions then, and you would see how I usually run them?? 

2. Even if you flew LW, its pretty clear you are either in denial or completely blind to the different nature of the air game when compared to the period before left. 

We are all trying to address this issue, how to fix what for MOST of us seems a problem. We are trying to be constructive. You, on the other hand are mostly saying nothing positive about our ideas, and keep telling us that no real game mechanics need changed, that  it is all in the players attitude. I strongly disagree. But, as you convinced me many times before, it is pointless trying to debate with you. 

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1 hour ago, bogol said:

And I really really take offencse to your (Do away with the lonewolf turnandburn mentality.) You HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Just ask around...

Funny that you are offended by my (implicit) assertion that a wingpair is immeasurably more effective than any lonewolf. And yes, I DO have a clue. 

How does this offend you, and why?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t mean you personally - I address players at large. My apologies for expressing myself badly.

Edited by bmbm

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11 minutes ago, madrebel said:

in my drawings look at the space that opens up the moment the primary airfields are knocked out. before TOEs and endless flag swapping or just outright stacking the world on one AF the close AFs naturally went 'offline' as soon as their supply list was used up. with bombable AFs we can force this again by just knocking out the AFs opening up the airspace significantly. the new mission type is just the tool i want to use to open up the airspace again. the fights in this mission type while kick [censored] really are secondary to my objective.

 

open up the airspace and allow players the ability to -with concerned effort - bomb an AF till its dead. whatever that ends up being i'm ultimately after more roaming space. using a would be new gameplay type that is also realistic to get that seems like the best route. i'm sure bmbm disagrees with his wealth of deep understanding for the hows and whys of the game over the past 15 years he's been gone. 

I see your vision madrebel, and I think that it has some merit. Opening airspace can be especially important when the number of players increases. With the low density of pilots per square nowdays, it is not a major problem.  But I do respect and see what you are going for!

For me, the main concern of this thread was how to get LW to fight the fight its been designed to fight: At alt with E and not near a town where EA can quickly run for cover to their 4wheel friends. And allowing the fight over AFs (mobile or not), in my opinion would help LW, since it will create a scenario where they can use their planes to their full advantages. 

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I really don't want to see this thread locked, guys, so please distance thyselves from any possible ToS violations (personal attacks, etc.).

This thread discusses an extremely critical issue with the game at the moment, it is active, the discussion has a lot of different viewpoint, and there are a lot of ideas (some good, some bad) getting thrown around.

Let's not ruin that by taking things super personally or trying to undermine arguments by attacking anybody. Focus on facts, stats, math, persuasive arguments, appeals to reason, etc.

Please. We really need an active LW for the game, so let's focus on keeping that goal in mind.

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5 minutes ago, bmbm said:

Funny that you are offended by my (implicit) assertion that a wingpair is immeasurably more effective than any lonewolf. And yes, I DO have a clue. 

How does this offend you, and why?

LMAO.... So, you are replying directly to me, by quoting me, and end up with: Do away with the lonewolf turnandburn mentality.

And then come back asking me to explain as to why I am offended? Because you really have never been with me on Discord to know how I play this game. Thats why. Because you have no clue as to how I run a mission.... Because you, sir, continue to dig deeper. And WITH THAT I AM DONE RESPONDING DIRECTLY TO YOU. 

Edited by bogol

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no, people like bmbm need to hear people's anger. [censored] him! its not 'ok' this isn't a 'side' thing this is a gigantic issue with the old CRS team gutting the [censored] game we fell in love with rendering it down to some wanna be shoebox crap with forced unrealistic gameplay.

 

you want players back? well, this specific area of the game and the decisions made drove away hundreds or those! im trying to outline the why, and [censored] like bmbm come in here telling me and others frustrated that we're imagining things? [censored] you, no we aren't!

 

this new CRS team is showing us everything we need to see thus far ... except any kind of commitment towards actual air gameplay. more models isn't new gameplay. cool, super cool. seriously awesome that we're getting new models, but that isn't gameplay and it doesn't fix the core issues.

Edited by madrebel
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44 minutes ago, madrebel said:

the game plays nothing like it did when you were around old timer. [censored] off if all youre going to do is talk about your glory days.

Keep it civil if you please.

Like I said, I flew extensively the past 6-9 months so my understanding of the air war is as good as yours. And I can tell you that the general mechanics of it has changed very little over the years. People still fly out of the same airfields to the same targets, and act just like they did way back when. 

Bogol - dial it down. I was not addressing you personally, mkay? Sorry if it came across otherwise. Please look at my comments as directed to anyone who flies, casually or not, and maybe you'll see that they have some merit. 

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1 hour ago, bmbm said:

You want bombable airfields but no flak, but uh flak to keep you safe when you spawn, so how do you want it?

BTW @madrebel, you didn't answer this one - how do you want it - no flak to better barcap, or flak to keep pilots safe around the AF? I'm getting mixed signals here.

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or what? gunna run to xoom? 

 

you're the only one in here out of line. on your high horse telling people the sky is blue when we all know its been gray for a long long time. you apologize to me, to bogol, and to all the other players you're alienating or i'll keep clowning you every opportunity i get. your attitude, is NOT ok. pages of this thread civil till you - yes YOU came in here trying to swing the wise old codger hammer and you hit yourself in the face.

 

apologize or just go away idc but youre the problem here. admit that and maybe we can all move on down the road. insert iraq information minister picture here 'no problem guys, its all you, nope ... just go create your own gameplay. the nerve ..

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3 minutes ago, bmbm said:

Keep it civil if you please.

Like I said, I flew extensively the past 6-9 months so my understanding of the air war is as good as yours. And I can tell you that the general mechanics of it has changed very little over the years. People still fly out of the same airfields to the same targets, and act just like they did way back when. 

Bogol - dial it down. I was not addressing you personally, mkay? Sorry if it came across otherwise. Please look at my comments as directed to anyone who flies, casually or not, and maybe you'll see that they have some merit. 

This is the second time you are using the exact same card... We had this match before bmbm. Next time you are talking about the general LW player, dont do so in a DIRECT REPLY to me, after you just quote me... PLS. 

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5 minutes ago, bmbm said:

BTW @madrebel, you didn't answer this one - how do you want it - no flak to better barcap, or flak to keep pilots safe around the AF? I'm getting mixed signals here.

I can answer this one. Flack stays as it is for regular AFs (or maybe toned down 10%ish). And for Mobile AF, scaled down appropriately. Thats what I vote for. Can't talk for madrebel. 

Edited by bogol

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