delems

Cap times terrible.

138 posts in this topic

***  I do t think spawn delay or cap timers are the answer to that solution as it just causes rage quitting and rightly so.

I don't like SD or variable capture timers, but I don't mind a little of it - I do think the game should try and balance stuff when it is way out of whack population wise.

However, far better to have no SD or capture variability, and offer perks to underpop side to get them to want to play (FPA get all gear, flamethrowers, etc.)

Personally, I would just lock the in game world at some ratio - so that it never gets that out of hand; maybe 2 to 1?  Then this whole problem goes away as does SD.

I also think locking FPA to the under pop side is a great idea - maybe it won't work, but it should be tried.

 

The current mechanics are WAY overcorrected.  30 sec SD, plus a 7.5 capture time?  While the under pop gets a 2.5 min capture time? Really?!

I've left game many times this past week because of it.

 

Edited by delems

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1 hour ago, gt3076r said:

This is a far too common mindset observed in this public forum, often written by veterans who have next to no current play time or are occasionally seen complaining about server population themselves. Don't you have any idea what new players who might want to try this game think when they see this sort of stuff? :huh:

I’ve never complained about population really, even since 05. I’ve earned my stripes and than some over the years to publicly state my opinion. Bottom line is we as a community have lost a bunch of players and players that have built this game to what it is today and we as a community are likely going to lose more unless something is done. I’ll say this until I’m blue in the face, spawn delay and cap restrictions are not the answer. Once a solution is presented, stick with it and move forward regardless of the outcome.

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I’ve found this campaign (and the accompanying battles) to be the best in a long time, personally.

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6 hours ago, bmw said:

Yes.  No penalty for overpop just a bonus for underpop.

I think maybe you have to split the difference, or you got an underpop with instacap? just step on floor and POOF

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1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

I think maybe you have to split the difference, or you got an underpop with instacap? just step on floor and POOF

just remove the penalty... underpop already has faster cap timers and nobody has a problem with it.

 

it's the 7min cap time that's all suck

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6 minutes ago, major0noob said:

it's the 7min cap time that's all suck

It's only 7 min solo though? Or has something gone strange?
Should be much shorter if you put more guys in it?

Supposed to be on a sliding scale so when it gets real long it means you are pretty well over populated, and in theory should be able to direct more bodies
to the cap area.

If we as players would balance the pop on our own, we would not see the timers come into play

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***  means you are pretty well over populated,

Well, 50% over pop don't make up for 30sec SD and 300% capture penalty.

Not to mention the attacker has to run 30 seconds to even get there.

KMs gone, LWs nearly gone, and now you're working Heer.... very sad.

 

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OK so the current timers are not the best.

But we are seeing a difference. And we are not seeing massive town rolls. I think that that part is an improvement.

So give CRS time to look at this campaign and when it's done, they will very likely make better changes.

I have trouble understanding why, whenever CRS makes a change, people go insane during that test campaign, as if there will be no chance to fix it and the new idea will never be adjusted. Let's face it, the system has to be tested live, or they will never know if it really works or not.

I have to address something Ce said. He talked about the idea that if one sports team does not show up, they forfeit. That's all well and good but it's a skewed analogy: IN sports, they have leagues. All of the teams in that league have to have full rosters, one way or the other. When a season starts, the teams are even. What happens if a team is unable to fill its roster? They don't get to play. They might be removed from the league entirely. No way the league will let them play unless they can field enough players to start the game. In OUR game we only have TWO teams, and let's face it... one team almost never has an evenly matched roster.

This is not the fault of the game. I have played most of the WWII games out there. Guess what? The most popular side by a wide margin? The Axis. It's not an insult or flame.Its an observation, and for many of the reasons mentioned by StankyUS. (Another fact I have seen mentioned is that a lot of players have become so bored with the all Allied single player WWII games that they don't want to play Allied anymore.) The fact is that the majority of players who will join want to play Axis... it's just a fact in WWII games.

Unfortunately, this is a WWII game, and not a red vs blue game. People have their preferred side. And we don't have 20 minute matches. Our campaigns last for weeks/months. And we have squads, which only increase side preference. I'm not trying to be a voice of doom, but I don't honestly believe we can ever really resolve this part of the issue. All we can do is try to resolve the  pop difference artificially.

Some games use AI, but almost no one wants that here. We tried spawn delay, but that is hated. We are trying cap timers... it is having an effect without locking people out of the game, so that's a step in the right direction. Maybe if we actually used a people requirement instead of increasing the timers... If you have twice the pop, you need to have two people minimum in a spawn to cap at all... and if one dies the timer stops until you replace him...that sort of thing (Just a vague concept... don't roast me)

I wish I could present a perfect solution. Like many of you I have spent years trying to think of a good solution. Unfortunately making people play a side they do not want to play is not a good one.

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3 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

If you have twice the pop, you need to have two people minimum in a spawn to cap at all... and if one dies the timer stops until you replace him...that sort of thing (Just a vague concept... don't roast me)

You sort of indirectly have that (I think it may be harder to code the host for directly)
cap isnt disabled for one guy, but it is slow
stick more guys in and it goes faster.
If you have a large overpop, you can of course afford to stick more guys in the cap area.
It is not flat out disabled like your idea, but it does award you for putting more guys in it.

I am afraid though, if you disabled cap unless you stick X bodies in the capture area, you may get roasted

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I really don't see the issues some of the OP players are stating.  You are that overpop ..STOP PADDING STATS SPAWN CAMPING and get souls inside the depots. Seriously you guys have had our towns totally camped by ei ets and ea but we often still kick you out because you dont seem to be able to manage all your players.

If the allied squads of past years had your population we would be in intermission...

If a playerbase continues to try to ninja cap when they are that overpop, how is this CRSs fault?

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10 hours ago, gt3076r said:

This is a far too common mindset observed in this public forum, often written by veterans who have next to no current play time or are occasionally seen complaining about server population themselves. Don't you have any idea what new players who might want to try this game think when they see this sort of stuff? :huh:

+10

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I don't think you all get it. Let me try and explain it another way.

Axis has 30 second SD to start with.. that is rough.

 

Then, even with 8 people in the CP, it takes us 3 minutes to capture....  EIGHT people!
Meanwhile, allies can recap a CP in 2.5 minutes with 1 person.

We don't have 8 people to spare for every 1 allied player - don't you get IT ????????

Unless you are telling me the pop difference is 8 to 1; which I know it isn't.

 

THINK this through people - the capture mechanism is broke right now  - it has gone way to far.

Again, love how we are trying to fix the issue - but we way way way overcorrected with the solution.

 

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30 minutes ago, delems said:

I don't think you all get it.

No, we do get it just fine.
You cant put 8 people in every CP, ok? so you cant domino cap.
It's not terribly fun anyways, there usually isn't much fighting involved.

Numbers can be fine tuned, once enough data is collected, from all sides of the equation.

But still, one thing that keeps being overlooked and like shoved under a rug.
You DONT have to have the long SD or the long timers.

Take you, and your group, and go roll over to whomever is underpop.
POOF you got no overpop delays
Get a few more groups to do the same and no one has any.

Got a big squad? send 10 guys over.
See who can rack up the most squad mate kills

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*** Take you, and your group, and go roll over to whomever is underpop.

Remove squads from game and I'll do this.

Why do half the rats keep talking about squads and team play - and the other half keep saying switch sides every day?
I'm not going to ever switch sides as the CO of an axis squad; ever, never.

Get it, axis squad..... not underpop squad, not traitor squad, not mercenary squad; axis squad.

There is no team play if my squad jumps ship every day; or every few hours?  Can you not understand this?

Besides, I'm sure half my squad would never switch even if I did.

Maybe, there is a slim chance, if we talked about it, and planned ahead - we might try allied one map - but I doubt it.

 

*** You cant put 8 people in every CP, ok? so you cant domino cap.

No, we can't even put 8 in ONE CP?  Sheesh, is it really that hard to see?
And even if we do, a single allied caps faster than all 8 of us!  Which part do you not understand?
We don't have 8 players to cap even 1 CP, and even if we did; a single allied caps faster. (and we have 30 sec SD)

I have attacked all day- I haven't seen 8 axis in one CP once today; not once; maybe a bunker after flags kicked, but never for a CP capture.

 

And if your solution is so simple, why hasn't it already worked?

 

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2 hours ago, dropbear said:

I really don't see the issues some of the OP players are stating.  You are that overpop ..STOP PADDING STATS SPAWN CAMPING and get souls inside the depots. Seriously you guys have had our towns totally camped by ei ets and ea but we often still kick you out because you dont seem to be able to manage all your players.

If the allied squads of past years had your population we would be in intermission...

If a playerbase continues to try to ninja cap when they are that overpop, how is this CRSs fault?

Well said

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11 minutes ago, delems said:

 

I have attacked all day- I haven't seen 8 axis in one CP once today; not once; maybe a bunker after flags kicked, but never for a CP capture.

 

 

Saw this in Spincourt last night 10 players in the CP to save the cut.

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*** get souls inside the depots

Can you not read?
With 30 sec SD, run time to the CP; we can't get 8 people in a single CP.

Which, even if we COULD... is still slower to cap than a single allied player?

We don't have 8 to 1 overpop.

 

*** Saw this in Spincourt last night 10 players in the CP to save the cut.

First, that was last night.

Second, that was a DO, not AO.

 

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33 minutes ago, delems said:

Remove squads from game and I'll do this.

Why do half the rats keep talking about squads and team play - and the other half keep saying switch sides every day?
I'm not going to ever switch sides as the CO of an axis squad; ever, never.

Why not? Why would you have to remove squads from the game?
Shirts VS Skins
 

36 minutes ago, delems said:

No, we can't even put 8 in ONE CP?  Sheesh, is it really that hard to see?

If you have 30sec SD, you can get some bodies in a depot
Can't and Won't are not the same.

 

38 minutes ago, delems said:

And if your solution is so simple, why hasn't it already worked?

You already answered that
In your own words, You refuse to and so do others and so we create the unsolvable problem.
Other games solve it for you, they tell you what side you can play, ours doesn't

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*** If you have 30sec SD, you can get some bodies in a depot

You don't read do you?  Or you don't think about what you read.....

We can't get 8 bodies into the CP, we don't have 8 to 1 pop advantage, and even if we did - we still cap slower than 1 allied.   You're becoming lame.

 

 

*** Why would you have to remove squads from the game?

sigh, because squads are part of the side; they don't just flip flop like you think.

Just like the guard of the Knicks don't move every other game to some other team.  The guard is part of the team.. our squad is part of the axis team.

Remove squads and i'll play underpop every time I log in - no side loyalty, no team; just run and gun WWII online.

 

You're the ones that 'promote' teamwork, and combined arms...  that is how you advertise the game.. not me;  And I'm just playing that way, on the axis team.

Are you to say the company no longer promotes team work and combined arms play?  Squads are irrelevant?  Again, say so - i'll change how i play.

And, tbh, while you 'talk' squads; all the actions taken so far have shown no 'walk' of that talk.  Squad are really irrelevant; they get nothing.

 

Edited by delems

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5 hours ago, Quincannon said:

But we are seeing a difference. And we are not seeing massive town rolls. I think that that part is an improvement.

No towns are moving... It's like 3-4 a day: trading a town twice or some useless extreem N/S village

We're In T3 but the map is still in t0

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Being Axis and having just taken 3 Towns in Row with a 5-15 SD, I think it's working ok.

 

More teamwork and more courageous panzers to lock cps are the key..

Edited by pbveteran

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On 3/21/2018 at 10:02 PM, major0noob said:

NEW: Balancing Capture Timers (according to imbalance)

When there is an imbalance starting at 1% (up to 50%), the following will occur:

  • Underpopulated side receives bonus faster capture speed by X%
  • Overpopulated side receives penalty slower capture speed by X%

So for example, if there is a 25% population difference, the following will occur:

  • Underpopulated side = 25% faster capture timers
  • Overpopulated side = 25% slower capture timers

 

remove overpop penalty and increase underpop bonus... all carrot no stick

This was our first implementation which had limited effect. Overpopulation must have an increased capture timer to work properly.

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2 hours ago, delems said:

You don't read do you?  Or you don't think about what you read.....

We can't get 8 bodies into the CP, we don't have 8 to 1 pop advantage, and even if we did - we still cap slower than 1 allied.   You're becoming lame.

No i read, you just don't like the answer.
If you have 30 sec SD, you do have enough people to get more than 1 in a capture area unless you are talking some insanely low pop like 5 V 2 or something.
You also stand more chance to blow the 1 guy coming to stop your cap to kingdom come.

3 hours ago, delems said:

sigh, because squads are part of the side; they don't just flip flop like you think.

They can do anything they wish to do.
My squad, small crappy and full of noobs as it is, is specifically encouraged when logging in to go to where the game says is underpop

Shoot a squad member? Cool, shoot more so we can laugh about it later.
Will you get kicked from the squad? No, why would you? 


 

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What if we update the capture building and block the rear exit with sandbags ? Also on the blown version of the building. It will be easier to defend from the inside. 

adding a murder hole or internal window on the right after the main entry would be cool as well. Eventually limit the capping area to the old radio room like in the new bunker

 

 

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Last night, Tuesday, I was capping the railway station in Dun.  It was taking so long to cap, I went and made a drink (a G&T with ice and lemon), fed the cats and went to the loo.  When I came back I'd almost capped the CP!

I understand the reasons for the variable cap timers, but they're a bit too long now. 

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