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XOOM

Feedback: Fortified Mobile Spawn

86 posts in this topic

I am looking for feedback on the FMS (Fortified Mobile Spawn), please check the following bullet points below as a guideline:

  1. Comparison to the Field Re-Supply Unit (as the main stay mobile spawn)
    1. Better, worse? Why for either?
    2. Have you seen a return of combined arms game play?
  2. Fixes required
    1. Are there issues hurting game play?
      1. If so, name each of them, and a rationale as to the why.
      2. Recommended solutions?
  3. Has the reduced truck EWS increased their survivability?
  4. Has the reduced FMS deployment timer:
    1. Increase survivability?
    2. Maximize the number of placements within the campaign?
    3. Gave the underpopulated side better defensive capability?
  5. Other feedback not outlined above, solutions required!

PLEASE MAKE THIS DISCUSSION UNBIASED AND PRODUCTIVE.

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The FMS may not be perfect, but imo just no way we can go back to infantry placed MS.  Far to gamey.

Only change I can think of off hand, is make it so air can't hurt them, only ground units. (including possibly HE from ATG/AA/tank)

The real problem is not enough action because of too slow capture timers and too much supply imo.

 

Another idea, what if when an FMS is destroyed, one is automatically deployed some 300-500m towards the origin? (random pick - 300, 400, 500).

This means the FMS isn't really gone, rather just pushed back directly inline to the origin - thus keeping action alive.

It simulates the front being pushed back by the defender, but keeps the battle alive as the attacker can still spawn in - just some 300-500m further away.

 

Edited by delems
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1 minute ago, XOOM said:

Comparison to the Field Re-Supply Unit (as the main stay mobile spawn)

  1. Better, worse? Why for either?
  2. Have you seen a return of combined arms game play?

 

I like it better than the FRU we had
It doesnt vaporize when hit by two bullets or a wayward grenade
it gives more protection, though if youa re found you might be screwed, but sometimes it is only 1 or 2 enemy infantry, and you might be able to
take them out, the FRU you were just out in the open with some boxes.
It is able to spawn some support equipment.
The guy driving the truck isnt stuck just sitting there for the duration, he can move out to a secondary location, or go run back and tow some heavy guns up
or he can join the FMS mission itself.

Combined arms, sometimes yes, sometimes no, but that has little to do with the FMS for the most part

7 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Fixes required

  1. Are there issues hurting game play?
    1. If so, name each of them, and a rationale as to the why.
    2. Recommended solutions?

 

Maybe some additional PPO's
Nothing fancy, i know some already existing game objects that could be put to use.
It is hard to protect your backside, but you dont want the back side protection to be forced into the FMS model itself because it will limit/hinder placement
So a few objects to help with that, and perhaps free up placement rules a bit where the PPO's can be closer to eachother.

12 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Has the reduced truck EWS increased their survivability?

It does help when there is no human spawned in yet at the location.
If a human is spawned in, truck engine audio is too prominent, they can hear your even through tank engines and battle sounds.
It is not that the truck volume is higher, it isnt, but the engine loops do not blend in and the sound probably had a compressor* run on it.
Combined they make it stand out too clear, little truck should get lost in the mob unless maybe its the only sound going on, and even then less distinct at distance.
(* Think TV commercial, they use a compressor to make sure that every single bit of the audio is at the peak dB which is why they sound loud as hell even though
they are only hitting the same dB as the TV show you were watching peaked at)

 

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the FMS is ok, the truck is and always has been the truck-FRU and FMS's biggest problem

1.5km detection paired with a 1-hit-ko undefended unit (as in he can't kill) is crazy, then there're little annoyances topped on it constantally

 

sorry xoom but this discussion is a year late, only yes men remain and they will defend everything you do to death.

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1 minute ago, major0noob said:

sorry xoom but this discussion is a year late, only yes men remain and they will defend everything you do to death.

I doubt that, but let's please try to remain productive. Differing opinions are acceptable and an important factor within all of this.

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Only real problem with FMS right now is no ML control of their mission.

I can't disable/enable MS spawning.

I can't disable/enable mission spawning.

I can't kick a player that is being a jerk.

 

So, I spend 15 min, sneak my truck in to 800m; make FMS, then some newb or spy spawns in and sets off EWS - blowing the entire attack setup........

Even better if ML could select which units could be spawned from MS - i.e no ATGs, AA guns, etc.  Allow the ML complete control to disable/enable every unit able to be spawned at a FMS.

 

Edited by delems
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I think the reduction of EWS and faster FMS build timers has helped ability to attack a town.

 However once the FMS is located they are difficult to defend especially in later tiers. The enemy armor easily out classes any ATGs that can spawn at it. Would like to see more options of PPOs to fortify FMSs, or maybe a faster cool down timer for the ability to build more gun emplacements around the FMS so it’s not as easily camped.  

Also have to agree with delems, one person not on the same page can give away you FMS location even if it’s hidden in the perfect location. 

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30 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Comparison to the Field Re-Supply Unit (as the main stay mobile spawn)

  1. Better, worse? Why for either?
  2. Have you seen a return of combined arms game play?

1.worse: few people even bother to make them, they don't get replaced at all, they're easy to find, easy to deny, 400-700m the terrain is barren (less outcroppings and bushes) making placement harder, attacks very very rarely last beyond 1 wave of FMS's (with the FRU it was a constant albeit chaotic stream of activity), the unit they're tied to is completely and utterly defenseless and is basically a 1km+ kill me sign, requires much much more support just to get up and staying then to take down, 4 charge health is basically 1 engineer so it's not as strong as it sounds

Better: it can take a hit, no more RPATS/sapper greifing

 

2. yes, but the defender can get into a spawncamp situation far more easily than the attackers can get a ZoC, in manpower i'd say its 4:1 in the defenders favor

 

41 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Fixes required

  1. Are there issues hurting game play?
    1. If so, name each of them, and a rationale as to the why.
    2. Recommended solutions?
  • few people even bother to make them: there are soo many nerfs tied to them it's not fun... red zones everywhere (cannot place there), tied to a easy to kill unit, they take long to build (including driving time 3-10min)
  • remove most red zones, i know there's reasonable explanations but there's not enough terrain features 4-500m from towns to prevent easy spawncamps and the current terrain features are chalked full of red zones.
  • bring back inf-FRU without anti-armour and engineers. sappers/RPATS killing ZoC's were one of the buggest issues tied to the inf-FRU

 

  • they don't get replaced at all: trucks are easy to hunt and kill, every unit can hunt them from 1.5km and get em from 500m.
  • lower truck noise (with max headphone volume at 500m inaudable)
  • let other units make them. engineers are limited and important enough to discourage waste
  • make them build instantly. less hassle,
  • bring back inf-FRU without anti-armour and engineers. sappers/RPATS killing ZoC's were one of the buggest issues tied to the inf-FRU

 

  • they're easy to find/easy to deny: they're large and obvious even without the trucks giving their direction away
  • lower truck noise (with max headphone volume at 500m inaudable)
  • add some bush textures to them
  • bring back inf-FRU without anti-armour and engineers. sappers/RPATS killing ZoC's were one of the buggest issues tied to the inf-FRU

 

  • requires much much more support just to get up and than to take down: there's a clear imbalance of effort needed simply to get one up, a single scout car can prevent a attack from ranges outside a resonable ZoC's. a team effort of 4 on the defenders side makes even the most determined 20+ attack fruitless... as long as they get the trucks the town will not be contested
  • let other units make them. engineers are limited and important enough to discourage waste
  • bring back inf-FRU without anti-armour and engineers. sappers/RPATS killing ZoC's were one of the buggest issues tied to the inf-FRU
  • lower truck noise (with max headphone volume at 500m inaudable)
  • 4 charges is 1 engineer, let engineer's make them or

 

  • defensive FMS's are several-fold more effective then offensive FMS's:
  • make a "too close to friendly facility" 3km out, the defenders already have spawns 1m from CP's and armour less than a min away

 

 

 

1 hour ago, XOOM said:
      1. Has the reduced truck EWS increased their survivability?

they're still easy as heck to deny, the AO and any ZoC units give it away more than EWS range

 

1 hour ago, XOOM said:
  • Has the reduced FMS deployment timer:
    1. Increase survivability?
    2. Maximize the number of placements within the campaign?
    3. Gave the underpopulated side better defensive capability?
  • Other feedback not outlined above, solutions required!

1. a bit yes, there are no longer lone wolfs denying a entire side of town (North/South), however they spawncamp a lot more now

2. there are still only dedicated players making them, named guys we all recognize. they're not being built by the masses. at only 1-4 per side they're clearly far from maximum...

3. disproportionately so, they already have armour at will, 1m spawning from CP's, ai's cover, EWS, 10min AO timers, and now a capture advantage vs nerf. they're spoiled rotten with advantages

 

i can go on all day...

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1)  they’re not hard spot, and once they are there doomed.

 It might be nice if there were two choices for an FMS that could be placed out in the field ,  

a-  The current model no changes 

b-  something very much like the UMS, But It can only spawn infantry, And maybe it has a chunk of camo netting on it, the idea being  it’s hard to spot, make it so it takes two HE charges to kill it

UMS- harden this so it takes two HE charges as well

 Combined arms, it’s almost impossible to get armour to some places or  sectors to support an FMS  but ideally yes 

3) It increases the likelihood of a successful placement prior to an AO  being set.  But you have to set them out pretty far which means that some players won’t even use them they Spawn in, town looks far away and they bail.

 But the FMS  it’s self is just as  vulnerable as always 

Timer- Yes it makes it easier to place them but they still get blown just as frequently

 It’s really about detection once they’re detected thier doomed

 

 

Edited by brady

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  1. Comparison to the Field Re-Supply Unit (as the main stay mobile spawn Better, worse? Why for either?

FMS allow a stronger ZOC. I have had good and long fights around FMS’. FRUs are used in large towns only so the context is different. Cannot be compared. 

 

Have you seen a return of combined arms game play?

No change observed for the FMS defense although its longer lifetime gives more time to tanks to roll there. 

Attacking an eFMS has eventually generated more combined arms combats. 

 

Has the reduced truck EWS increased their survivability?

No, it maybe helped the initial set up for HCs to keep a surprise effect, but as soon as the battle goes off, trucks keep their limited lifetime. Dont’ see How/why this should change.

 

Has the reduced FMS deployment timer:

Increase survivability?

Maximize the number of placements within the campaign?

Gave the underpopulated side better defensive capability?

This was a good change, and the timer is well balanced IMO. If the area is under immediate control you deserve to set up a quick FMS.  enemies have now less time to sneak your position to kill the truck, which is good for the underpoped.

 

Problems and fixes?

(Moved updated analysis to my next post)

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Generally the FMS is better than it’s predecessor. It would help to add several more ppo’s to increase FMS survivabity (e.g.; tall interlocking sand bag walls, bushes, camp nets, ap and at mines).  Reducing red zones would help.

The sound problem is still a major problem.  Sounds generally travel too far in this game, I think.  Ambient noise as well terrain and foliage effects are totally missing making the sound environment unrealistic.  

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9 minutes ago, GrAnit said:

Generally the FMS is better than it’s predecessor. It would help to add several more ppo’s to increase FMS survivabity (e.g.; tall interlocking sand bag walls, bushes, camp nets, ap and at mines).  Reducing red zones would help.

The sound problem is still a major problem.  Sounds generally travel too far in this game, I think.  Ambient noise as well terrain and foliage effects are totally missing making the sound environment unrealistic.  

Planes turning off their engines and listening for trucks ...

the sound bug where u don’t hear the charges going off on the FMS

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One of the problems is once the defenders are alerted it's pretty difficult trying to get another FMS setup..Especially if the only FMS on the attack or FB assault is camped.

I would say that lowering a trucks audio would/could be a small change that could be implemented.

It couldn't hurt to try it and the analyze the data?

 

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As it has been already pointed out FMS works differently if you are attacking or defending.

Placing a defense FMS, especially at the early stages of the AO is quite easy. Then you can spawn lots of nasty ATs.

Take into account that A 2lb for example is fast an can be easy concealed and will blow up any panzer in early tiers.

-----

Another ideas already given that I'd support:

Provide ML with tools to activate/disable spawn, etc.

 

It would be great to be able to move somehow the FMS forward at some point or been able to create from this fisrt FMS a second FMS forward (let's say max xxxmeters every xxx mins) when the area is secured so people doesn't need to change mission.

Or instead a second FMS Let's say that you can spawn an engineer from the FMS and you can set an infantry MS instead, linked to the FMS and  with restrictions.

If this second or advanced FMS/MS would be blown up, then the system should fall you back to the initial one so the attack goes on.

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Agree mostly with what has been said. 

I'd add that you could up the radius of resupply.  Right now, tanks have to move to the rear of the FMS to get ammo, I'd like it to resupply units in a 10m radius. I don't think that would be overpowered and would help gameplay. 

 

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Another option would be that once an FMS is set up by truck, the ML can move the FMS by foot once but only within a certain distance from the original FMS, say like 200m.  This would allow a closer FMS to be placed without alerting the defense as easily,  The original FMS would convert to a atg pit once the new FMS was built.  

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That is maybe a good idea.

Once a FMS is placed, the ML can move no further than 100m every 5 min.  This would allow the ZOC to move up a bit.

And as said, even better, if the 'front' FMS was destroyed, the one previously placed (100m back) would reappear.

 

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Most of suggestions sounds fine to me.

But please dont get back to the inf placed mobile spawn. I think it would be a big error.

IMO the bigest problem to carry out and FMS is the audio. We seriously need to decrease the trucks/tanks audios in general.

I will write a more elaborated opinion later. But pls no Ninja Inf placed mobile spawn again.

 

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27 minutes ago, kase250 said:

Most of suggestions sounds fine to me.

But please dont get back to the inf placed mobile spawn. I think it would be a big error.

IMO the bigest problem to carry out and FMS is the audio. We seriously need to decrease the trucks/tanks audios in general.

I will write a more elaborated opinion later. But pls no Ninja Inf placed mobile spawn again.

 

Yup, the infantry placed mobile spawn almost killed the game. It certainly killed the armor game. 

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I find them easy to camp and camping them is a must.

I made a suggestion a long time ago. Give them multiple exits and a larger footprint. Make the camping a real fight where a tanker might find himself wtfsploded by a gopher who popped up from a different hole.

Edited by Sudden
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New Fms is fine but it really takes the special ops out of the game.

As soon as a fms is placed people are building and shooting aa/atg.

Obvious signs of we have a fms here. Smart builders will wall up and make it hard to get a straight shot in.

Plus the opel unable to coast more than 10 ft for axis team. Allied can coast for 500m?

The major problem with player dropped FRU was supply available.

You could easily one man an armor columned and have a place to reload.

Why not have limited Inf placed FMS - no tank killers(atr/sap/eng/zook), no atg/aa, limited autos.

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  1. Comparison to the Field Re-Supply Unit (as the main stay mobile spawn)
  2. Better, worse? Why for either? - More Protection to spawing inf unit - better
  3. Have you seen a return of combined arms game play? No more than usual
  4. Fixes required
    1. Are there issues hurting game play? ATG spawning at FMS is awful - A lot of stuck gear
    2. If so, name each of them, and a rationale as to the why. Being stuck at spawn and having to work way out of it is dumb
    3. Recommended solutions? make ATG spawn out another meter - Inf has had some isses being stuck on tank traps at fms
  5. Has the reduced truck EWS increased their survivability? No - Opel can still be heard almost directly to there drop spot. Opel needs to be able coast same dist as Allied
  6. Has the reduced FMS deployment timer: Yes - faster timer much better for dropping - moving maybe getting second location ready if 1st fails
  7. Increase survivability? Yes
  8. Maximize the number of placements within the campaign? No more fms the better no cap
  9. Gave the underpopulated side better defensive capability? Underpop is saved by mega timers atm not much to do with dfms
  10. Other feedback not outlined above, solutions required!

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Lots of good stuff so far-

Quote

 

lowering a trucks audio

Provide ML with tools to activate/disable spawn, etc

I'd add that you could up the radius of resupply

 the infantry placed mobile spawn almost killed the game. It certainly killed the armor game

Give them multiple exits and a larger footprint

I find them easy to camp

 

 

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FMS still creating a bottle neck for attackers. Will need to find more ways to incentivize more players driving them out there and setting them up.

Recent changes have helped with the setup of an AO for sure, but once the word is out, it becomes very difficult to bring in further FMS/trucks, for both sides.

Seems players have some good ideas that I am aboard with that should help, the 2 main being.

1. Allow ML to lock/unlock spawning from the FMS until time dictates. This is a simple feature, I understand squad only is a bad idea, and kicking players is a rough grey area. Just a lock/unlock spawn though will allow MLs to ensure EWS isn't lit early or players coming in at the wrong time. It will mainly help the setup of attacks, but might actually help sustain as well. Lock FMS if enemy is close or following the "ant trail". Should allow FMS to stay up longer. Also if commo is good can direct spawn traffic to the needed parts of the battle field better.

2. Different styles of FMS/MSPs. Variables certainly help. Rather than an all in one solution, it seems a lot of us are happy with the idea of having a variety of spawnables.

Maybe a limited inf only MSP deployable from an engineer a certain distance from a standard FMS. Will allow support of the main FMS and help combat camping. Let trucks deploy larger style FMS for additional heavy equipment, make sure the distance is decent (has to be like 1km out), but will allow for easier ATG deployment as mid battle towing isn't easy. 

3. More PPO would be great, just some different styles, heck even deployable AI or some crap. 

 

Any ideas out is an improvement, its a big throttle. Long story short lets find out how we can get more people driving them out there. If that doesn't work we need to find a way to create satellite spawns, or some way that the few who do run FMS can maximize effectiveness to keep a battle going.

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HC player only PPOs like AI tower, ATG pit, or AA.

only usable on DOs or radius from FB

Give the guys who volunteer some extra toys.

You want than join up

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