vanapo

People complaining about axis being hip.... firing.

17 posts in this topic

Thanks! Now could you show me actual footage during hip fire action that operates like it does in the game. Preferably some footage while moving and shooting, how accurate it was and hey, even footage of someone doing 180/360 while you're at it! 

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9 hours ago, gretnine said:

Thanks! Now could you show me actual footage during hip fire action that operates like it does in the game. Preferably some footage while moving and shooting, how accurate it was and hey, even footage of someone doing 180/360 while you're at it! 

You don't.
You dont spin around, and you dont go jogging
And that goes for a mg34 or a bren or a bar etc.

Realistically, you would try very hard not to place your LMG in that situation because you are placing it at a disadvantage.
Sometimes life hands you lemons though and you might be forced to use marching fire to extract your but from the lemonaid.
Not all guns are equal, so there would be some variance, but in general, you'd try to get in a supported stance and put some suppressive fire down range
probably in small bursts because you dont want to be standing there playing the reload game.

Your guys would advance, they would lay covering fire, you'd take up a new position and repeat until you could extract yourself from said bad situation.

You would not twirl, aside from the fact you got friendlies around that can NOT turn off friendly fire irl, you are wasting ammo all over creation
and that means you are going to be sitting there with your butt in the breeze reloading, and you dont get to call a time out, the other guy is going to punch your clock.

You would not even do that with a small SGM
Waste of ammo, of which you only have so much and you're a danger to everyone around you.

Movies show it like its no big thing, guy is flat out sprinting and blasting people with twin mac10's etc
but take something safe like an airsoft gun and go and jog across the yard, normal jog like our guys do in game when not sprinting or crouching
now try and hit a target with it.

Now imagine you are doing that and trying to spin around at the same time, and you got friendly forces near you.
Also might try to imagine that the airsoft gun weighs somewhere between 17 and 26 pounds.

A guy stuck in a bad situation could definitely take his MG34/BREN/FM 24/BAR or whatever and stand up and try to put down some suppressive bursts
and try to unfubar the situation and regain control or whatever the best option is, probably extraction,  but he wouldn't be chasing you down firing the whole time and he would probably be the last guy to go chasing you up a flight of stairs, that's what the guys with the rifles and hand grenades are for.
 

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Notice that the possibility of jogging after the target seems pretty much a non possibility?
This is all sensible people have issue with, we dont worry about the non sensible people who want it shootable only deployed in a concrete block house
constructed with a class B permit and only after sacrificing rooster blood.
 

 

Other games do it wrong too though

 

And here is a perfect example of why real soldiers do not run around like retards with LMGs (or other guns for that matter)

 

 

These are not MG34's but they do a good job of showing that one does not just calmly stand there blazing off a bunch of rounds
from a rifle caliber automatic gun

 

And to sneak hot chicks into the topic

 

 

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I don't think you can run & shoot any weapon somewhat aimed. And I don't think anybody thinks you can jogg while firing aimed salvos of LMG. But to anybody saying you have to "deploy" it before you can fire it - I don't think so.

The Red Orchestra 2 gameplay actualle doesn't represent the normal MG gameplay in that game. Nonetheless what you see there is that there is no jogging while firing. The player is restricted to the slowest form of movement in this game if he wants to fire the MG from the hip. And then it's just spraying all over the place which is the main reason the player is killing people at a distance of 2 - 3 meters which is not much for RO2. I am pretty sure 2 meters is a distance you can hit targets even with a hip firing LMG on the move with if you are practiced in this discipline.

But the main point is: thank you for the last video!

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One of WWIIOL's marketing points is that physics here are calculated, not faked.

With respect to turning while carrying a weapon, whether firing it or not, the heavier and longer that weapon relative to the center of rotation, the more the rotational inertia should slow the initiation of the rotation and the more that rotation should continue once the weapon-carrier has nominally stopped it.

WWIIOL should do more to model both linear and rotational acceleration/deceleration when infantry carries heavy loads.

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12 minutes ago, vanapo said:

...to anybody saying you have to "deploy" it before you can fire it - I don't think so.

Standing fire should require a new position, standing deploy...right leg back, weight forward, sling over the shoulder and supporting the gun level, left arm forward of the gun's center of mass.

Reloading should require dropping to one knee. One man reload with a canister magazine requires two hands while resting the gun on the raised leg, or maybe even setting the gun down on the ground if you have to get the fresh canister out of an ammo bag and put the empty one back there for later reloading.

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If adding new "positions" would love to see two enemies engagin in melé when meeting each other around the corner, instead of passing throught each other. :)

 

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8 hours ago, jwilly said:

Standing fire should require a new position, standing deploy...right leg back, weight forward, sling over the shoulder and supporting the gun level, left arm forward of the gun's center of mass.

Or make it simple like the developers of RO: If you happen to fire it from the standing position, your movement and swing is restricted to the slowest form of movement (or just freezes completely).

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I have killed allies from the hip quite a few times with the LMG.

German Army regulation video for dealing with allies 

 

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On 4/18/2018 at 9:17 PM, jwilly said:

One of WWIIOL's marketing points is that physics here are calculated, not faked.

With respect to turning while carrying a weapon, whether firing it or not, the heavier and longer that weapon relative to the center of rotation, the more the rotational inertia should slow the initiation of the rotation and the more that rotation should continue once the weapon-carrier has nominally stopped it.

WWIIOL should do more to model both linear and rotational acceleration/deceleration when infantry carries heavy loads.

Agreed.

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On 4/19/2018 at 3:32 AM, fiambre said:

If adding new "positions" would love to see two enemies engagin in melé when meeting each other around the corner, instead of passing throught each other. :)

 

Deploy shovels and commence swinging!

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however, in WW2 every second infantryman was not armed with an LMG.   Given the numbers of players in game, the hip-firing LMG unbalances the game.  It is not just a matter of if it could be done in real life.  You have to consider the impact it has on this specific game. 

Also, if you are going to play the "realism" game, you don't get to cherry pick which parts of realism you are going to use.  If you want realism with the MG-34, then add barrel replacement in every 150 rounds. Also the LMGer should run about about half the speed of a rifleman.  And it should be extremely difficult to move around with in confined places, like cps an bunkers- no more spinning.

Another point-- notice the lanyard around the gunners neck attached to the LMG -- now how could someone go from this to a deployed bipod in the time currently in game?  Again, cherry picking realism.

 

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2 hours ago, blakeh said:

however, in WW2 every second infantryman was not armed with an LMG.   Given the numbers of players in game, the hip-firing LMG unbalances the game.  It is not just a matter of if it could be done in real life.  You have to consider the impact it has on this specific game.

It isnt the doing of it itself
If you are standing there with an MG34 and i come running at you, no one expects you to be unable to spray bullets and just let me run up and stab you
Just no one expect that it would take place while jogging (and that goes for lots of things not only MG34's)
 

2 hours ago, blakeh said:

If you want realism with the MG-34, then add barrel replacement in every 150 rounds.

Keep in mind, that would be in continuous fire.
If you are plinking and bursting etc you could keep that same barrel until you wore it out.
Applies to other weapons also.
When we get that mechanic, probably need feed back in the UI, so a guy could at least try to manage his barrel temps
to minimize change outs at bad times.
Course if they turn the UI off, well stabbed a time or two due to overheating the barrel will learn em (maybe lol)

 

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17 hours ago, blakeh said:

Also, if you are going to play the "realism" game, you don't get to cherry pick which parts of realism you are going to use.  If you want realism with the MG-34, then add barrel replacement in every 150 rounds. Also the LMGer should run about about half the speed of a rifleman.  And it should be extremely difficult to move around with in confined places, like cps an bunkers- no more spinning.

Same goes for every weapon. Your movement should be restricted when swinging a large and heavy rifle - compared to a pistol or compact smg. It should be hard to move them around while moving trough bushes or inside buildings. Your weapon spray should increase and you should get feeding problems with continous fire - on SMGs and even on rifles. We got a lot of "should be"s. Nobody argues that. But a lot of folks argue you can't hip fire an MG34 at all. Or you can't move at all while doing so. And that's just wrong.

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15 hours ago, merlin51 said:

If you are standing there with an MG34 and i come running at you, no one expects you to be unable to spray bullets and just let me run up and stab you

exactly.

 

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