rule303

Late War & Alternative/Post WW2 Tech for Really Late Tiers?

77 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, merlin51 said:

R35's are best used to do things like patrol town on defense.
Seek out and suppress enemy FMS
Or support an infantry position like an FMS etc.
FB defense, laying in wait of enemy trucks or scout cars.
They dont really do great fighting tanks, they havent the gun for it.

They have nice armor, better than PZII and PZ38(t) but the gun is better suited for lobbing HE at soft targets.
and they are pokey to drive any place, though they will climb up anything, and do about the same speed on and off road
(which is to say they crawl every place)

I mean you can take them on attack, doesnt take that long to crawl 2km
but it isnt the units strong point cause more often than not, you are going to be running into enemy tanks
and it is no more gunned for tank combat really than the PZIIc is, you might toddle in and give some support to an FMS
or support a capture, but even if you could arrive fast, you would not do much in the way of pushing out enemy armor
unless you get besieged by a bunch of 232's and PZII's

I use them, i think they are fun, but i tend to stick to patrolling town, setting up FB defense, wacking opels and 232's with HE
and chasing off enemy infantry etc.


Equipment Speed wise?
France actually has probably the fastest unit (among those represented in game) in T0
The S35 i think has the highest offroad speed.
Its torque curve may be a little slow on the wind up, but once it is rolling, it is fast.
The B1 is no master of haste, it is lucky to do 17mph down a paved road, but the thing is, when it goes offroad, it only sacrifices a little bit of speed
so it winds up in the same speed realm as the axis units offroad. A bit slower on the uptake, but it is kind of heavy for its time.

When you are only having to travel that last 2km, and your origin is already known, most times the road is not the place to be
so most of the time, it is the offroad speeds that matter the most.

If we had to do a lot more driving over a lot longer distances, you would be correct.
Axis would have virtually everything moving at decent speed on a road march
Allies would currently have A13 Vickers and S35's showing up on time, with Matilda's and R35's arriving too late for tomorrow's dinner and the B1 bis
arriving sometime around late lunch, which would not work out so well because there would be no stand your ground units.
Allied advance would be much slower and they would have to be diligent in not leaving holes for the axis to blitz through
Operation rolling Fortress

At least in T0, obviously the game changes as the tiers advance, Britain gets more cruisers, France begins getting US supplied gear that moves well etc.

Now as tier 0 fleshed in, things would change as the brits would gain more units capable of axis maneuvering and would possess the fastest unit on the battlefield in T0+ with the tetrarch
along with their A9 (A10's are not fast, they keep company with matilda) and A13 MKI along side the A 13 MK III Covenanter

France would also gain some more mobile units
AMC35 light armor, good gun, on par with PZ38(t) sort of
AMR 33 and 35 which class beside the vickers and pzIIc, not suited to fighting tanks unless you enjoy suicide, but good close infantry support.
(the 33 might be redundant to model as it is same armament, same armor capability, and roughly same speed and the 35 has a few variants)

So factoring in that the allies are able to team up, the Allied T0 mobility teams line up might look like
A9 MKI Cruiser *
A17 Mk VII Tetrarch *
Vickers
A13 MKI *
A13 MKIII *
AMC 35 *
AMR 35 
S 35 *

If you want to include non tanks
DAC *
Panhard

*consistently knocks out all axis armored units

And assuming a fleshed out axis T0
those would be competing with
PZI
PZII
PZ38(t)
PZ35(t)
PZIII
PZIV
SdKfz 232

So it does not really have to be terrible, if one does not simply screw the entire thing up with terrible deployment, inability to adapt fast enough and such.
(Something we dont really have to worry about in game, not to realities extent anyways)
Even adding in the eventual italian factions tanks does not change things much aside from variety.
No speed demons or lumbering block houses there.

Did not include
StuG b and Laffly W15TCC and PZJI and similar simply because they are not really for advancing, they are for stopping advancement.

 

This is all a fun discussion, I have not weighed in yet because it really only pertains to the current game by and large.  Specifically the portion about mobility.

Following the development map and the work on updating the terrain...   Roads at times will ONLY be the way in which is going to be insanely awesome and terrain will be a key feature creating real barriers.  ATM 95% of the playable areas on the map are accessible by 100% of the equipment.  There will be areas with the further development of wing2 that probably will only be accessible to infantry.  At that point we might need to think about going back to another form of player placed FMS.  I think the solution to that would be that the player placed FMS would have 4 building components to build with the final piece in place activating the FMS.  That way its MUCH harder to put one up inside a ZOC, or placing one next to a ET, then sapping it and moving on.  The other part is that mb possibly the player placed FMS would only have the ability to spawn: Riffleman, LMGs, SMGs, engineers, pack howitzers and light AA. No atgs, no RPATS, no sappers and throttle them like a depot.

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4 hours ago, vanapo said:

We can just stop this argument. Merlin and I both pointed out that speed is not the killing factor with the spawn points being so close to target.

In this game the "Maus" Tank would be just great despite being allmost immobile - because it would spawn right next to the town and it's very hard to kill while fielding a big gun. It would be a tier 4 Char. Germans got nothing comparable to a Char or a Matty in tier 0 and tier 1. Every tank they field has really weak armor that can be taken out frontally at regular fighting distances even by the enemy scout cars! It's laughable to say (in context of this game) that the germans got the better offensive equipment only because they got significant more road-speed with some tanks. Every battle tank they field got weak armor, and only the 4d and Stug (which is no battle tank) got reasonable penetration with the very few and very inaccurate HEAT rounds they carry. Pointing out they got the more precise optics doesn't help when your shell won't land at your aiming point.

Don't get my wrong. I won't say the german tanks are "nerfed" or the balance is off or something. But to say the axis win because their tanks are better suited for an attack - especially in early tiers - that's waaaay off.

No.  You and Merlin have pointed out that it is your opinion that speed is not a killing factor for the Allies.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the effects of defensive-designed equipment versus the victory conditions requiring offensive success.

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