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moe5000

Need to get rid of the HC system

86 posts in this topic

Adding AOs to the list of issues I did forget. I forget those arrived a bit before TOEs. 

 

Again delivery was intended to conform to game designs that require ‘other’ humans to assign them for players they may or may not have any actual relationship with. Meaning, the group of players that have formed community have to go request something from someone else that may not be inclined to preference them over their own perhaps squad or intentions.

 

On the flip side, prior to AOs you had mega squads lining up completely unhistorically at the edge of EWS to ‘rush’ the CP and if they failed, they went somewhere else. We called this Whack-a-mol and it was even used during large attacks to draw people away, exploiting a system weakness. 

 

This sucked too. 

 

The problem was players weren’t really investing anything of value requiring them to commit and stay committed to the attack. This was the core of that issue. AOs did solve that, in a way. 

 

I’d prefer to have some sort of economy system where by squads ‘buy’ AOs and then can ‘spend’ them anywhere they like. Win, you get another. Lose, you’ve gotta now as a squad do missions and save up to buy another AO to do as you please. Something like that where megasquads are incentivized to see it through and if they do, get rewarded.

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10 minutes ago, madrebel said:

Adding AOs to the list of issues I did forget. I forget those arrived a bit before TOEs. 

 

Again delivery was intended to conform to game designs that require ‘other’ humans to assign them for players they may or may not have any actual relationship with. Meaning, the group of players that have formed community have to go request something from someone else that may not be inclined to preference them over their own perhaps squad or intentions.

 

On the flip side, prior to AOs you had mega squads lining up completely unhistorically at the edge of EWS to ‘rush’ the CP and if they failed, they went somewhere else. We called this Whack-a-mol and it was even used during large attacks to draw people away, exploiting a system weakness. 

 

This sucked too. 

 

The problem was players weren’t really investing anything of value requiring them to commit and stay committed to the attack. This was the core of that issue. AOs did solve that, in a way. 

 

I’d prefer to have some sort of economy system where by squads ‘buy’ AOs and then can ‘spend’ them anywhere they like. Win, you get another. Lose, you’ve gotta now as a squad do missions and save up to buy another AO to do as you please. Something like that where megasquads are incentivized to see it through and if they do, get rewarded.

I don't know where we will go with this.

But I pray we never again consider anything that uses the words or concept "player economy" in this game again.

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what do you mean? Btw, we have always had a limited economy. Resupply functions over top a ticket system that is a very broad brush high level analog for economy. Scotsman has long opined for global tracking of munitions for a variety of reasons, logistics is accounting and functionally is a measure of economic output.

 

I don’t understand the hesitation.

 

 

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12 hours ago, augetout said:

I was AHC before the game came out, and for 3ish years after it came out.                       The HC 'system' was at first derided as being a 'good old boys club', which wasn't accurate, but was tough to overcome.                Then the HC system "didn't do anything, thus was unnecessary".  That one hurt a bit, I'll admit, as at the time I was putting in at least 8 hours a day ingame (but not really ingame, as I was sitting at the map most of the time).  Getting folks to work together back then was extremely difficult, far more difficult than it is today.  Those difficulties, combined with the (at the time) 1 opel + 1 INF = towns takens 3 towns behind the lines, and a bonus instaspawning army too boot, chased folks away from the HCs  (especially AHC).

 

The lack of leadership tools in the early days, combined with some equipment issues and (in the very early days) different interpretations of CRS' instructions to the HCs, adversely affected Allied morale which caused a 'drain-swirling' system where folks who liked the game might try the Allies, but soon would go to the german side as it was more fun, thus making it less fun for the Allies, which chased more players away, and so on around the drain .

 

I didn't like the RDP system being controlled by the HCs, with my reason being that I felt it would chase players away from the game when they didn't get their way, and that happened.

I don't particularly like the AO system, as I believe it has been a huge contributor to the death of most of the squads who used to be ingame.  Ironically, now the AO system probably keeps the game playable, as the population is low enough now that without AOs the map would be an utter mess.

 

I am hoping the hybrid AO/Town based supply deal works-----------I think taking towns behind the lines should absolutely be allowed, so long as doing so does not cause an entire army to magically appear in the process.

 

Anyway, the HCs are not the problem.  Both need to be fully staffed, which just happens to be tough these days, as the ingame population has yet to go back to the 'old days'.  Back in 'the old days', there was no quicker way to get someone to lay off griping about the HCs, than inviting them to join.  Once they found out what we were working with, they usually quit griping.

 

S!

I wasn't in AHC at this time, but from the outside looking in this description is exactly what it looked like.  

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There is no use in defending the HC system.

 

A game that requires a significant portion of it's playerbase to stop playing the actual game and go babysit supply, attack objectives and motivate the players on a 24/7 basis is doomed for failure.

People pay to play a game and most don't come to a FPS to sit and play online Risk.

 

So... once again I see people acting as if the premise of this is valuable to the game and utterly ignoring the reality at hand.

It's been a LONG time since 1.36 was promised, yet here the game is... still sloughing off players over this.

 

 

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HC, or not HC, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the WHIPS and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of acton.
Edited by actonman

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It was already settled almost a year ago.

 

HC is supposed to be out... but it's not.

 

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 5:41 AM, vasduten1 said:

There is no use in defending the HC system.

 

A game that requires a significant portion of it's playerbase to stop playing the actual game and go babysit supply, attack objectives and motivate the players on a 24/7 basis is doomed for failure.

People pay to play a game and most don't come to a FPS to sit and play online Risk.

 

So... once again I see people acting as if the premise of this is valuable to the game and utterly ignoring the reality at hand.

It's been a LONG time since 1.36 was promised, yet here the game is... still sloughing off players over this.

 

 

Said the guy who is posting on the forums of a game that has lasted from 2001 to the present...  ;)

 

Some (I would submit 'many') do enjoy the strategical layer (the HC portion) of the game.  Some enjoy it more than the FPS stuff----Badger would probably fit into that segment, imho, as would a bunch of others.

 

It has been a long time since 1.36 was promised, but as I recall, when it was first promised they said it was coming 'soon'.  Based on the software definition of soon, perhaps we haven't waited long enough.

 

S!

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7 hours ago, augetout said:

Said the guy who is posting on the forums of a game that has lasted from 2001 to the present...  ;)

 

Some (I would submit 'many') do enjoy the strategical layer (the HC portion) of the game.  Some enjoy it more than the FPS stuff----Badger would probably fit into that segment, imho, as would a bunch of others.

 

It has been a long time since 1.36 was promised, but as I recall, when it was first promised they said it was coming 'soon'.  Based on the software definition of soon, perhaps we haven't waited long enough.

 

S!

It is an interesting fact that gets missed at times, that the game indeed has survived 17 years. That’s a damn good run. 

Its a war simulator, so I suppose human ingenuity and ineptness at command is part of that realism. History it’s self has born that out with the loss of many lives. I would also fathom the frustration when things are not going well for a players team are part of the realism effect. Being good at command and demoralizing the other side it a commanders job. I do not yet have enough of an understanding of the command and supply system to comment much on its merits as far as game marketing and game survival. It just seems to me it is one more layer of realism. Whether it gives us a net result of more players or less I can not say. Many here point out evidence that might suggest its bad. But I do believe WWII OL to be a unique video game that can reach beyond the avg gamer and draw in non gamers who play. “I am one” this game plays more to a thinking audience who enjoys the realistic complexity compared to other games. it’s realism is one of its charms to me.  I would hope there is a place for the HC and supply system or a good replacement. 

~ S/F Black5

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You know Zebbeee

had a good thought about creating that instant hard core FPS game with in the structure of WWIIOL for the more action oriented player if we could achieve that and bring in that feel on the micro level maybe we could keep the HC system at the macro level.

 

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2 hours ago, black5 said:

You know Zebbeee

had a good thought about creating that instant hard core FPS game with in the structure of WWIIOL for the more action oriented player if we could achieve that and bring in that feel on the micro level maybe we could keep the HC system at the macro level.

 

I think this is the right thing to think 

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