lipton

Opinions on KE/HE Patch?

83 posts in this topic

41 minutes ago, lipton said:

So, Axis nades might be "less damaging"??  I know they were concussion nades

Scotsman has said before that the German "potato masher" primarily-concussion grenade is modeled now with a "splitterring" fragmentation sleeve in place. So, its fragmentation performance is comparable to that of Allied grenades.

234.jpg

Edited by jwilly
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3 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Scotsman has said before that the German "potato masher" primarily-concussion grenade is modeled now with a "splitterring" fragmentation sleeve in place. So, it's fragmentation performance is comparable to that of Allied grenades.

234.jpg

Really? Was that the standard potato masher the German infantry used? I always read it was a concussion grenade. 

I'll be curious to see how much better the Axis Sniper is now, compared to the Allied Sniper... per Scotsman. 

Edited by lipton

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9 minutes ago, lipton said:

Really? Was that the standard potato masher the German infantry used? I always read it was a concussion grenade. 

The Model 24 indeed was a concussion grenade. The splitterring was a snap-on sleeve to quickly turn a Model 24 into a fragmentation grenade.

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Ok for concussion grenade but can we create a real concussion effect?

what about the option to have both in our load-out? 

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The Axis Mortar seems to have zero function.. HE does zero damage, close to 100 rounds fired and several more by others, made bug report..

Cheers Monty

 

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3 hours ago, montyuno said:

The Axis Mortar seems to have zero function.. HE does zero damage, close to 100 rounds fired and several more by others, made bug report..

Cheers Monty

 

Same, 60-80 with 20 directly on the front door. Not even a single hit, i could see the poofs from ehere i was fireing.

 

Last year in a navy town i stood in the poofs just to see if they'll kill me, not eved a "aak!" From my guy

 

Definitely still useless

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2 hours ago, dfiire said:

Earlier i was locking down an efms from about 100m with an m1 garand and a guy started to shoot mortars at me (Fms was in a bunch of bushes and i was on the non-spawning side). Some of the mortars landed super close to me and didnt even damage me. One was about 8-10m away and nothing. I almost felt bad to be honest lol. 

As far as killing inf with HE, i havent really tested it much. I will say though that i shot at a couple enemy atgs with Churchill3 HE and shots landing just feet away did not seem to damage them, but my depth percection coulda been off since i was around 1k away.

The one thing I dislike about the patch though is the ammo numbers in tanks. This is a HUGE problem for me and other tankers that go for a lot of armor kills. The sherm and churchill7 only get like 36 ap (or aphe) rounds and then 45 HE and then 15 smoke. I never use smoke rounds and hardly ever use HE. I REALLY wish you could select how many rounds of each you had in the menu before you press enter world. I for example would do all AP rounds except maybe like 5-10 HE, 0 smoke. This would be a godsend for us that play more long range and dont rush in balls deep with tanks. I hope a RAT reads this and considers it because I have a lot of people agreeing that you should be able to select how many of different rounds you have 

That was me, lol, then the tank killed me.  I watched them land right next to you. I just stopped playing.    I kept marking you and telling people on my mission you were there and people still ran into you like dingleberries.  btw nice clipping of the hill, I could see the end of your rifle but no head that is why I started to mortar you.

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7 minutes ago, waldojr said:

btw nice clipping of the hill, I could see the end of your rifle but no head that is why I started to mortar you.

He cant see that, from his perspective he isnt doing that.
Go offline and put your infantryman to what looks like to you, just against something, then go to external view and you will see the 3rd person position is off.
Have to wait for collider work to tighten that up i think?

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2 hours ago, merlin51 said:

He cant see that, from his perspective he isnt doing that.
Go offline and put your infantryman to what looks like to you, just against something, then go to external view and you will see the 3rd person position is off.
Have to wait for collider work to tighten that up i think?

How do you go to external view?

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28 minutes ago, choad said:

How do you go to external view?

Ctrl+Alt+Delete

Two times very quickly.

And you discovery the external view.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait, what did you mean? Check the keymapper!

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37 minutes ago, choad said:

How do you go to external view?

Left ctrl x. Open keymapper and go to general section then scroll down for all the external views commands

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8 hours ago, jwilly said:

The Model 24 indeed was a concussion grenade. The splitterring was a snap-on sleeve to quickly turn a Model 24 into a fragmentation grenade.

Oh yes. It took me a while to find ANYTHING on this sleeve, but I finally did. 

It was introduced in 1942.  Not 1940 when this game is supposedly starting.  But from what I've been able to discern, it was so difficult to keep up with on the battlefield, ... it was rarely available

But, I'm out of time and have to go to work now. I'm sure there's some more info on the net that disagrees this. 

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4 hours ago, major0noob said:

Same, 60-80 with 20 directly on the front door. Not even a single hit, i could see the poofs from ehere i was fireing.

 

Last year in a navy town i stood in the poofs just to see if they'll kill me, not eved a "aak!" From my guy

 

Definitely still useless

Was just tested by QA vs four different target types and had no issues killing if they were fairly close hits. You're likely not as close to the target as you think you are. 

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1 minute ago, lipton said:

Oh yes. It took me a while to find ANYTHING on this sleeve, but I finally did. 

It was introduced in 1942.  Not 1940 when this game is supposedly starting.  But from what I've been able to discern, it was so difficult to keep up with on the battlefield, ... it was rarely available

But, I'm out of time and have to go to work now. I'm sure there's some more info on the net that disagrees this. 

Alas we have but a single German grenade model - so what we have had to represent the full wartime period, Thus giving it credit for its frag ring. 

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3 hours ago, waldojr said:

That was me, lol, then the tank killed me.  I watched them land right next to you. I just stopped playing.    I kept marking you and telling people on my mission you were there and people still ran into you like dingleberries.  btw nice clipping of the hill, I could see the end of your rifle but no head that is why I started to mortar you.

If you were clipping into terrain and sheltered from frag calcs that's why you didn't die... intentional clipping isn't kosher by the way... 

 

6 hours ago, dfiire said:

Earlier i was locking down an efms from about 100m with an m1 garand and a guy started to shoot mortars at me (Fms was in a bunch of bushes and i was on the non-spawning side). Some of the mortars landed super close to me and didnt even damage me. One was about 8-10m away and nothing. I almost felt bad to be honest lol. 

As far as killing inf with HE, i havent really tested it much. I will say though that i shot at a couple enemy atgs with Churchill3 HE and shots landing just feet away did not seem to damage them, but my depth percection coulda been off since i was around 1k away.

The one thing I dislike about the patch though is the ammo numbers in tanks. This is a HUGE problem for me and other tankers that go for a lot of armor kills. The sherm and churchill7 only get like 36 ap (or aphe) rounds and then 45 HE and then 15 smoke. I never use smoke rounds and hardly ever use HE. I REALLY wish you could select how many rounds of each you had in the menu before you press enter world. I for example would do all AP rounds except maybe like 5-10 HE, 0 smoke. This would be a godsend for us that play more long range and dont rush in balls deep with tanks. I hope a RAT reads this and considers it because I have a lot of people agreeing that you should be able to select how many of different rounds you have 

If you were intentionally clipped into terrain then ( a) that's not kosher play and (b) you aren't subject to proper frag

 

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37 minutes ago, scotsman said:

Alas we have but a single German grenade model - so what we have had to represent the full wartime period, Thus giving it credit for its frag ring. 

I'm perfectly fine with that. I have no problems with CRS fudging actual production / distribution dates of equipment we use in this game ... to make it more ... balanced.  Even though it was the less common version of the grenade. 

I'm just pointing it out for the small, but vocal crowd that keep demanding we remove this or that piece of equipment because it's introduced at the incorrect time. (can you say Grease Gun) lol. 

IMHO, game play is WAY more important than strict historical correctness is ALL things WWIIOL. Just make sure it eventually balances out for both sides. (No, I'm not asking for Red vs Blue. I'm asking for a fair opportunity to come out on top in a fight)

I'm concerned about the discussion you had regarding the new and improved Axis sniper rifle compared to the Allied sniper rifles... because that's the way THAT weapon was. 

I wasn't as concerned about the sniper rifle itself, as I was with the ripple affect this type of reasoning;  when implementing changes, might affect the game play. 

It causes concern, that things will become ... unbalanced to the point of unfairness,  Just to be more historically correct in some ways while ignoring historical correctness for game play in other areas. 

This has been my biggest concern with all I've read about the impending update. I'll just have to wait and see, I guess. 

Edited by lipton

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1 hour ago, scotsman said:

Was just tested by QA vs four different target types and had no issues killing if they were fairly close hits. You're likely not as close to the target as you think you are. 

still, our experiences with the mortars (no kills ever) tell us they're useless. not saying they're designed wrong or bad.

they don't kill :: players don't use them

 

thicker/prolonged smoke would be nice though.

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4 minutes ago, dfiire said:

Not sure why he thinks I was clipped in the hill. I was moving around the hill and bushes crouched and prone so I would be a difficult target to hit. Then occasionally i would peek through a bush to see if i could see any movement. chamukko was in the tank and had a clear view of me so he could vouch. An lmg wounded me as well that was on my flank so I definitely wasn't clipped either intentionally or not intentionally. Merlin51's response is correct.

That's the way I read it too. 

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5 hours ago, merlin51 said:

He cant see that, from his perspective he isnt doing that.
Go offline and put your infantryman to what looks like to you, just against something, then go to external view and you will see the 3rd person position is off.
Have to wait for collider work to tighten that up i think?

@major0noob has posted about this before, and he isn't the first. There have been threads on this going back 10-15 years. The 1st-person camera position is off and always has been (despite nothing but non-stop denials by the old CRS team). One obvious give-away is the perception of the *small* size of the tanks relative to the infantry height. Play a game like Post Scriptum (where 1st person camera height is 100% perfect) and notice how large the tanks are, and you'll see immediately how WWIIOL is off. Regardless of the height of our mini go-kart tanks, the camera position issue causes problems when someone is shooting at you through a berm or behind some other cover, yet only the tip of their helmet is visible. This is a terrible problem that AFAIK has gotten zero attention since release 17 years ago.

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11 hours ago, lipton said:

I'll be curious to see how much better the Axis Sniper is now, compared to the Allied Sniper... per Scotsman. 

 

@lipton This isn't in the game yet (AFAIK). Waiting on dispersion audit for that (not the same thing as KE/HE audit)....

 

Edited by xanthus
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59 minutes ago, major0noob said:

still, our experiences with the mortars (no kills ever) tell us they're useless. not saying they're designed wrong or bad.

they don't kill :: players don't use them

 

thicker/prolonged smoke would be nice though.

this just isn't true. idk if you remember swiftcut but he was a real life artilleryman and in this game posted many 100+ kill missions (one over 300 as i recall) using a mortarman. idk how he managed to do it and i even watched him from in game a few times trying to figure it out with him explaining and i never got more than 2-3 HE kills as a mortarman. 

 

to me, indirect fire and how to properly employ it seems to be a science that you really do need to understand. just sayin, i've seen our mortars used to great effect in game.

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8 minutes ago, madrebel said:

this just isn't true. idk if you remember swiftcut but he was a real life artilleryman and in this game posted many 100+ kill missions (one over 300 as i recall) using a mortarman. idk how he managed to do it and i even watched him from in game a few times trying to figure it out with him explaining and i never got more than 2-3 HE kills as a mortarman. 

 

to me, indirect fire and how to properly employ it seems to be a science that you really do need to understand. just sayin, i've seen our mortars used to great effect in game.

I think he means after this patch, if I'm reading this thread correctly. 

 

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18 minutes ago, madrebel said:

to me, indirect fire and how to properly employ it seems to be a science that you really do need to understand. just sayin, i've seen our mortars used to great effect in game.

Yes, I've been on missions with swiftcut; gotten 20+ kills with mortar while camping MS, barracks, depot, etc.

The question is: are mortars *better* or *worse* after this patch? As far as I can tell, they are *worse* against AI (presumably bug); just to be clear, tower AI *cannot* be killed with mortar fire now, even by direct hits on top of the tower (NOT expected functionality; tower AI could always be killed by direct HE mortar rounds on top of tower). Can't say for sure against EI, but I mortared Paal barracks during the most intense action last night and never even got a damage despite the fact that EI were spawning like mad (which seems unusual to me, but that's just one anecdote). Also anecdotally, tank/gun-fired HE seems subjectively *better* to me (I was wounded by such HE on multiple occasions yesterday).

 

Overall, I'm really digging the KE/ballistics; I've gotten kills on daimler and panhard with ATR that I know for sure would have done nothing pre-patch. No more rifle rounds as AP is also a very good thing. As far as the HE, I'm honestly not sure at this point... The change in effectiveness of indirect HE vs AI is presumably a bug.

Edited by xanthus

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58 minutes ago, xanthus said:

Can't say for sure against EI, but I mortared Paal barracks during the most intense action last night and never even got a damage despite the fact that EI were spawning like mad

this is the common experience with mortars. even when there's line of sight aim.

there's always some star-*insert unit name here* in the forums or history, but get in-game and look at your fellow players perform instead of yourself or some star: it'll paint a sober picture.

 

players don't use mortars...

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I use the Mortar and do very well with it even though it's performance is subpar to RL.

Fully expected the mort to be very effective after patch, was @ Paal as well, the Axis Mortars are not working..

Have been very much looking forward to the Mort working well after patch, so pretty disappointed thus far..

Yes they are hard to employ but there are a couple of us that have them sorted, I am one of them..

Zero hits and zero kill in a packed AB and no I didn't flippen miss....

The Axis Mort is not working at all....

Cheers Monty

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