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asatru5555

WWIIONLINE 2.0 In UE4?!

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I just saw the roadmap and the new plans for WWIIONLINE 2.0 in UE4.. well i'm not sure what the actual plan is.

Creating a map in the scale of WWIIONLINE in UE4 is impossible.. I'm not going to claim to be a programmer or have any experience in Game Design but playing Post Scriptum they could barely handle those map sizes... While pretty big for UE4 Standards it's still nothing compared to WWIIONLINE. I cannot possibly imagine how you would ever realise WWIIONLINE in UE4 without making a completely different game.

Honestly, you'd probably be better off trying to team up with Post Scriptum to maybe work on a 1940 scenario DLC or something like that. Even trying to realise something like WWIIONLINE 2 in UE4 seems like a waste of time.

Why don't you try the TitanIM engine? I know it is mostly just available for military contractors.. But perhaps there's a way to purchase an affordable license. The graphical fidelity isn't really that much better than what we have right now for TitanIM but with the possibility of a 1:1 scaled earth as a playable map you should perhaps think about setting your priorities away from graphics.. like everyone else does.. and stay within the realm that you're more familiar with and which made WWIIONLINE survive to this day: Scale.

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1 hour ago, asatru5555 said:

I just saw the roadmap and the new plans for WWIIONLINE 2.0 in UE4.. well i'm not sure what the actual plan is.

Creating a map in the scale of WWIIONLINE in UE4 is impossible.. I'm not going to claim to be a programmer or have any experience in Game Design but playing Post Scriptum they could barely handle those map sizes... While pretty big for UE4 Standards it's still nothing compared to WWIIONLINE. I cannot possibly imagine how you would ever realise WWIIONLINE in UE4 without making a completely different game.

Honestly, you'd probably be better off trying to team up with Post Scriptum to maybe work on a 1940 scenario DLC or something like that. Even trying to realise something like WWIIONLINE 2 in UE4 seems like a waste of time.

Why don't you try the TitanIM engine? I know it is mostly just available for military contractors.. But perhaps there's a way to purchase an affordable license. The graphical fidelity isn't really that much better than what we have right now for TitanIM but with the possibility of a 1:1 scaled earth as a playable map you should perhaps think about setting your priorities away from graphics.. like everyone else does.. and stay within the realm that you're more familiar with and which made WWIIONLINE survive to this day: Scale.

I think they will welcome such ideas, thanks for sharing!

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CRS is already well along the UE4 dev path from what I understand.

I believe all that should matter is what you render on your PC (you're not rendering the entire map). I don't see what the problem would be other than the need to decrease vis distance. Right now I believe that vis distance is 2-6 km (with rounds going out to 2 km); somebody correct me if I'm wrong. That is what I see as the problem. Post Scriptum does not and cannot have vis distances that far. That shouldn't matter as distances beyond 1 km for the ground game are completely irrelevant anyway (I've long argued for decreasing this game's vis distance to improve performance, but nobody seems to care). Either way, I suppose they'd have to do it for UE4 (for the better). Air could keep its vis distance and that should work just fine (rendering ground units at much fewer polygons, lower res textures, etc).

You saw the WWIIOL UE4 screenshots, right?

test-scene-1b.jpg

test-scene-2.jpg

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2 hours ago, xanthus said:

 (I've long argued for decreasing this game's vis distance to improve performance, but nobody seems to care). 

F10 Key does this for me

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3 hours ago, Zebbeee said:

 

F10 Key does this for me

Very useful key to determine distances too!!

 

 

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6 hours ago, xanthus said:

CRS is already well along the UE4 dev path from what I understand.

I believe all that should matter is what you render on your PC (you're not rendering the entire map). I don't see what the problem would be other than the need to decrease vis distance. Right now I believe that vis distance is 2-6 km (with rounds going out to 2 km); somebody correct me if I'm wrong. That is what I see as the problem. Post Scriptum does not and cannot have vis distances that far. That shouldn't matter as distances beyond 1 km for the ground game are completely irrelevant anyway (I've long argued for decreasing this game's vis distance to improve performance, but nobody seems to care). Either way, I suppose they'd have to do it for UE4 (for the better). Air could keep its vis distance and that should work just fine (rendering ground units at much fewer polygons, lower res textures, etc).

You saw the WWIIOL UE4 screenshots, right?

 

Well.. i'm not going to start an argument about the technical side, since you're just guessing as much as I am. But UE4 is definitely not made for huge map sizes especially not for multiplayer. From a thread I found on the UE Forums:

" By default size of the world is limited to ~500k units (WORLD_MAX constant in sources). You can still place objects outside of these limits, however you will start experience unstable physics simulation on objects that are too far away from world origin. So it's not recommended to place objects which simulate physics that far, but you can still place visuals (ex. skyboxes usually are much bigger than 500k). Right now engine will stop physics simulation for actors which are outside of world bounds(WORLD_MAX), you can disable this behavior in WorldSettings->Enable World Bounds Check. "

The same post says there is a tool for "world origin rebasing" which is supposed to help with maps bigger than this but it also explicitally states this tool is still experimental, so probably too unstable to base a serious development endeavour on, and also not suitable for multiplayer games. 

Another argument is the sheer size of the file which a WWIIOL sized map with the levels of detail shown in the screenshots would have to be.

On another note.. I can't really confirm your performance issues with the view distance in WWIIOL and I disagree that the huge view distance is not important and should be sacrificed. The View distance limitations in Squad and Post Scriptum are very much noticable, especially in hilly maps in Squad. HMG's completely lack the utility they would realistically have in such a terrain just because you can only see half as much from an elevated position as you could in real life. Especially Close Air Support would have a WAY harder time making out targets than they already have. Honestly, the rendering distance for infantry should be increased. You cannot see moving infantry in a plane from a distance where you should realistically still be able to make them out. 

 

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Well, I think part of the beauty in this game is long range fire.  I routinely fire at targets over one km away with tanks, atg's and naval units.  So if range is going to be limited to a km or less, that will take away a significant aspect of the game.

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31 minutes ago, asatru5555 said:

 

Well.. i'm not going to start an argument about the technical side, since you're just guessing as much as I am. But UE4 is definitely not made for huge map sizes especially not for multiplayer. From a thread I found on the UE Forums:

" By default size of the world is limited to ~500k units (WORLD_MAX constant in sources). You can still place objects outside of these limits, however you will start experience unstable physics simulation on objects that are too far away from world origin. So it's not recommended to place objects which simulate physics that far, but you can still place visuals (ex. skyboxes usually are much bigger than 500k). Right now engine will stop physics simulation for actors which are outside of world bounds(WORLD_MAX), you can disable this behavior in WorldSettings->Enable World Bounds Check. "

The same post says there is a tool for "world origin rebasing" which is supposed to help with maps bigger than this but it also explicitally states this tool is still experimental, so probably too unstable to base a serious development endeavour on, and also not suitable for multiplayer games. 

Another argument is the sheer size of the file which a WWIIOL sized map with the levels of detail shown in the screenshots would have to be.

On another note.. I can't really confirm your performance issues with the view distance in WWIIOL and I disagree that the huge view distance is not important and should be sacrificed. The View distance limitations in Squad and Post Scriptum are very much noticable, especially in hilly maps in Squad. HMG's completely lack the utility they would realistically have in such a terrain just because you can only see half as much from an elevated position as you could in real life. Especially Close Air Support would have a WAY harder time making out targets than they already have. Honestly, the rendering distance for infantry should be increased. You cannot see moving infantry in a plane from a distance where you should realistically still be able to make them out. 

 

IIRC CRS talked about this in some thread... I dont remember what exactly thread....

About the View Distance, Im with you specially when you speak about Squad. For that reason Tanks battles etc in Squad or PS are imposible to see. WW2OL needs an increase of view distance not a decrease. 

Maybe @XOOMcould clarify us about the UE4 engine and huge maps...

S!

 

 

 

 

 

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A plausibly realistic daylight naval game needs visual and physics interactions to at least 20 km in horizontal over-water directions. An air game needs visual interations at least 10 km horizontally and ~ 7 km vertically.

Note that management of visualizations is a client issue, and not particularly relevant to what the server does during gameplay. The major part of the server's work is managing the vis list, i.e. which other units are rendered for you, and you can interact with. The bigger the interaction radius, the greater the load on the prioritization process, and the more server calculations and inter-client communication via the server. Every interaction requires server operations on the database.

Edited by jwilly

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I believe you don't have to use everything in UE4 as a bundle - iirc the plan was to take advantage of UE4's renderer for the graphics but they would be rolling their own terrain system & netcode etc. for the reasons you've highlighted.

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LoL you guys are clueless.

Yes you can make WW2ol on Unreal.. Those limitations are with the standard way you build a instance game with a hand made map and terrain.

Every game that says they have 500.000km world , they don't really have it loaded in game at one time, it's split in smaller areas and these are drawn and loaded in memory as you move in the world.

 

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