goreblimey

THE AMERICANS ARE COMING , well some of them

207 posts in this topic

33 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

I mean, the Axis certainly don't mind having nothing to fight Matildas with, or waiting all the way until the last tier for 1942 equipment. Not at all.

I can never let this one go by without speaking up....

As stated many times before. Yes, half of our brigades have 2 superior tanks for 1 week per campaign. It certainly is a scandal but the hardy Axis shoulder that burden with their chins held high.

Why they limit them to 2 i have no idea. Pretty sure they were produced in decent numbers. Historical supply of equipment has never mattered in other areas i guess. I mean the tiger seems quite fairly represented in numbers in this game.

As for the other stuff. 100% agree the loss (if it turns out that way) is certainly not solely due to TOE numbers/supply imbalance. I completely agree with a lot of your points there.

Edited by choad
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

Some of those reasons are valid, and legitimate, and CRS should absolutely look into it and fix. But saying that they're directly responsible for what's happening right now is just being dishonest.

Correct.  I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on the supply issue.  

 

But indirectly, it contributed to the perfect storm.  Many things had to go right for the Axis to get this accomplished.  

 

In lieu of the supply issue (that I will remind everyone, is not unique to this campaign but has literally been going on for several consecutive campaigns), this might not have happened.  

-the Allies would likely have won one of the previous 6 campaigns if not for these issues

-just one win would have made a difference in how things are being perceived

-perception is reality; the Allies could feel that the spawnlists were not right after prosecuting several different attrition-based AOs over the course of several campaigns

-players start to look for themselves and confirm several major supply issues

-players see that the system is rigged against them despite doing everything correctly

-players stop playing (there are many, many online games out there that are far more balanced than WWII online;  even online chess is inherently more balanced because one team doesn't get extra pawns)

 

This was not just 5-7 days in the making.  It took months of cooking for this to boil over on the Allied side.  It was as much (if not more) of the Allies letting the Axis do this than it being 100% superior comms and cactus.  

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All that, and more.

Allies went into victory parade mode. Let's face it we should have been able to advance onto your factory towns in the allotted 5 days, regardless of the breakout. Therein lies the problem methinks. Complacency.

And just to set it straight it wasn't just the US divisions , it was all Allied divisions had reduced supply. If you don't think it is much of an issue I'm sure you'll be happy to play the rest of the campaign with the supply situation reversed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, goreblimey said:

If you don't think it is much of an issue I'm sure you'll be happy to play the rest of the campaign with the supply situation reversed?

Now that I would like to see.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Capco said:

But indirectly, it contributed to the perfect storm.  Many things had to go right for the Axis to get this accomplished.

I completely disagree that this was a Perfect Storm situation.

Timeline of events:
Axis AOs town with insufficient supply to cover all possible fallbacks. Axis takes town, opens hole, aggressively pushes west.
Allied HC does not react appropriately.
Axis continues to take towns, lengthening and expanding the East-West line until it reaches Brussels.
Allied HC does not react appropriately.
Axis takes Antwerp, and begins pushing south in a very clearly telegraphed move for the well-known North-South Laon cut.
Allied HC seemingly doesn't react at all.
Axis continues pushing toward Laon, taking Marle and AO'ing Laon.
Allied HC counter-AOs Marle and takes it, preventing Axis from taking Laon. They move in some Navy and Air flags to Berry, but still refrain from moving any Army flags south to defend Laon.
Axis retakes Marle and pushes on Laon with 2. Pz Div, while all the Allied HC gave defenders were Navy, Air, and Paras in Berry and some Paras and Air in Cambrai. Axis takes Laon.
 

The Allied morale hit seems to be a perfect storm of issues culminating here, but Allies losing all of their Army flags over the course of six days is really due to either the inability of or the inaction of Allied HC to counteract any of German HC's moves.

 

1 minute ago, goreblimey said:

And just to set it straight it wasn't just the US divisions , it was all Allied divisions had reduced supply.

Going to fact check you on this one, expect a reply once I'm done looking at this handy-dandy BGE Game Monitor that I didn't know existed prior to this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, chaoswzkd said:

The Allied morale hit seems to be a perfect storm of issues culminating here, but Allies losing all of their Army flags over the course of six days is really due to either the inability of or the inaction of Allied HC to counteract any of German HC's moves.

Why do you think there was inaction?  We had a forum thread up on Friday calling this out.  We obviously saw what was coming.  

 

No one likes to play against a stacked deck.  AHC included.  

 

The morale hit, the lack of AHC, the cut... all of it is connected.  If you don't see that idk what else to say.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See this post?

 

 

"I now even question logging in the rest of this joke of a campaign because why fight against a horde of people who clearly have more automatics than you?"

 

This is literally how the Allies feel in a nutshell.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** "I now even question logging in the rest of this joke of a campaign because why fight against a horde of people who clearly have more automatics than you?"

Last I checked, allies have 90 BARS; axis have 30 LMG and 20 FG42 to match it.....    not sure how that says axis has more ????

And bolts, semis and SMGs seem to be mostly even.

(and you still get twice as many sappers as us)

(and we won't even go in to the nearly 100% more brit tanks.... a brit infantry division has more than 4 battalions of tanks in it.... yes, BATTALIONS, not companies)

 

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2018 at 5:33 PM, SCKING said:

51d5695467270877e3adc39c2683d88e.png

@delems are you saying this post is still accurate?  If so that's a pretty massive facepalm...  Axis needs their sappers back and their autos should be in line with everything else.  

 

And furthermore, not every Allied player reads the forums... but people do talk in game and word does spread about things like this.  Not every Allied player is aware that some of the list has been adjusted accordingly.  Some Allies might have heard this news this weekend and just stopped logging into everything until they hear that there's a new campaign starting.  

 

Many other Allies stopped playing before this campaign even began BECAUSE of the supply issues that we have been faced with for several campaigns now.  

 

I'm trying to illustrate the Allies' sentiments as a side right now.  That's why I quoted that post.  If CRS doesn't actively get the info out that they screwed the pooch for the Allies, the Allies will remain disgruntled.  You can't just look at the current BAR numbers and say the Allies gripe's over the last few campaigns are illegitimate.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Audit-o complete-o, and there do appear to be some issues.

Contrary to what I personally think is good for balance (same total # infantry both sides, regardless of equipment, because 1 infantry = 1 capper), looks like Allies always have less total inf supply than Axis.

 

Nee-ways, here's the audit, and it's more comprehensive than what @SCKING did, which is just for T4 I think. Because Allies are split into 3, Axis is taken as the baseline. Unmarked numbers are equivalent to Axis. Red highlight is less, green highlight is more. Division totals are Infantry*2 + Armor + HQ. Total Infantry In Game is used based on 10 Axis Divs, and 6 French Divs with 4 UK Divs for Allies from T0 to T2. I did 6/4 because in game it looks like there are 6 and 4 not counting US and some of them are inactive with US in the game; I don't know if it's ever not 6 and 4. Please let me know if that assumption is wrong. Since it's non-standard for what gets moved where when US enters in T3, I just put '???' there at the end.

 

I do think there are some things to fix here. Keep in mind that it's been announced that CRS has been auditing the TOES for a separate, more complete measure. Those are a bit more substantial than what the game currently has going on, which is why things are slower on that front.

Also take note of... the note... for US supply. It's silly, because Old CRS cludged them in with a rusty crowbar and absolutely nothing even remotely similar to lubrication. That's part of why figuring stuff out for them is such a pain, because you have to look at different tiers than what they're actually at. Also, the tools to handle this stuff are apparently a lot more complicated than looking up the numbers.

No violation of my NDA or anything, this info was taken from the BGE Game Monitor freely available on the site.

 

WWIIOL Infantry Equipment Audit 06182018 21:30 EDT


Edit: Keep in mind this is only Army, non-Para flags. This doesn't include armor, trucks, guns, or anything for Air, Navy, or Paras. It's possible there may be justifications for the discrepancies given those, but that would still conflict with my personal view on infantry balance.

Edit2: Also, keep in mind that this isn't historical. These numbers were touched several times this year alone, with the inclusion of new equipment and the like. There have also been some issues with actually tweaking these numbers seemingly causing unrelated numbers to have issues, etc. So these numbers are not accurate for past campaigns.

Edit3: Keep in mind some of the entries are aggregates. Axis Bolt-Action Rifles are Germany + Italy. Same with SMG. The Semi-Automatic Rifles are both G41s and G43s. That may be part of the cause of some of the discrepancies with trying to keep the numbers straight when their total needs to equal a certain value.

Edited by chaoswzkd
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you chaos!  Well done!  I'm having a look right now.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@delems  why do you keep banging this drum. I cant see 4 BATTALIONS of tanks , and if the tanks you are insisting are WAY too many are the CS tanks, they are responsible for a grand total of 300 casualties this campaign -so who really cares -. 

I'd agree balance is due though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking to get approval to make a FB post (different department) and after speaking with Ohm, next campaign Supply as a whole will be reduced (just wanted to get that information out there as well).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 far superior morale

Allied didn't have high morale. Their morale was absolutely crushed after the last camp, in which they have put in insane amount. Many players have quit or switched sides. Half of players are former axis now. It was always clear a victory in this camp would have no value.

Quote

The Axis was hemorrhaging people, constant cries of anti-Axis CRS bias, tons of [censored]-talking about WHIPS and side-switchers, tons of complaints about newbies, accusations about spies, etc. etc.

Maybe that's the real problem. Constant complaining after winning for 8 months.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been playing this game for 14 years now and I've seen all kind of changes, patches, bugs or whatever that would affect one side or the other depending on the situation.

If seen winning strikes on both sides, "imbalances" of all sorts or whatever...

So I'm not going to discuss about the facts provided in this topic  BUT

....in the end I've found just to kind of players.

Those who keep on playing no matter what  or those who easily gave up or switch sides as soon as their side losing. (Both Allied and Axis).

Whining is never an option to me.

There have been complains since day one on both sides about nearly any change implemented or nearly any equipment.

Saying that, this "pool thing" needed to be addressed and solved but I see no point in blaming Rats (who desperately  want this game to survive and evolve)

Pointing out problems helps.

Providing with alternatives helps.

Campaign is NOT over.

Have fun and see you in the battlefield.

S!

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just wondering, not to long ago Rebel357 put a post up in the Axis Forum , where I brought up that maybe the guys like Rebel should play ground more when needed. Just to be told by another long time Allied player that the AIR on the Allied side is the great equalizer.

Where my response was fine sit in ur plane , Planes don't cap towns I could care less.

Now I looked at the Map that was shown in this thread where Allied had the Axis in that small pocket. ( I wasn't online much at that time ) but I can imagine Allied Air was thick. All players if being on the ground would made a world of difference. Shorter spawnlist or not , I don't think it would have mattered.

Now why am I saying this , cause myself capped the AF of Cambrai and bounced all the Air units you guys had there with me as a Sapped  and a 9mm Luger in my hand last night.

No 50 more BAR or 100 extra INF unit or 1000 INF unit would gave prevented that why cause you guys were to busy spawning plane after plane  , in 15seconds interval, the AF sounded like a mad hornets nest. But not one ever thought about checking the AF bunker and that was after I had a FMS set 45 min prior to the AO just to harrass the AF , once we capped the Spawnable shortly after that someone finally took down my FMS , but I already made it to the AF not before I killed Hayaska in a Tank and sapped a Plane before I made my way into the AF bunker.

Waited another 3 min before the radio went hot then I capped all by my lonesome , I believe that's 9 min of sitting in that AF total to cap it, not sure what the time frame is capping all alone being 17 seconds OP. 

 

Edited by dre21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey chaos,

There are three things I note from your post with numbers.

1) How come total infantry goes from 485 to 620 over the tiers?  Shouldn't it stay about 500 every tier?  Bolt rifles need to leave as semis come in. (and maybe too many semis coming in)

2) USA needs more gear, they have no LMG so they need BARs substituted in.  Also, they need 50 more semi to make up for the G41 (they only got G43 numbers).

3) USA should only have 5 sappers, or, what is the explanation for them having 10?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, delems said:

Hey chaos,

There are three things I note from your post with numbers.

1) How come total infantry goes from 485 to 620 over the tiers?  Shouldn't it stay about 500 every tier?  Bolt rifles need to leave as semis come in. (and maybe too many semis coming in)

2) USA needs more gear, they have no LMG so they need BARs substituted in.  Also, they need 50 more semi to make up for the G41 (they only got G43 numbers).

3) USA should only have 5 sappers, or, what is the explanation for them having 10?

I know you're addressing me, but I don't have anything to do with the supply numbers other than that data analysis for the audit (which was just an hour spent with a tool I didn't know existed and Open Office and Google Docs).

I forwarded the audit on to Ohm, and I know at least Blkhwk8 has seen it because he has posted in here.

 

I can give some conjecture, though.

As tiers progress, more and more equipment becomes available. Even though older equipment becomes less valuable, we still want it to stick around so people with lower ranks can play better equipment when tier requirements drop.

The more types of equipment available, the harder it is to ensure both that a minimum amount of equipment is available for players to actually use and have fun with, and for it to balance with the equipment on the other side.

For example, let us assume flags on both sides only have 10 bolt action rifles, with no other equipment. Now we add a single LMG to both sides. There are 11 total soldiers (or 10 if you want to keep supply even across tiers). But US doesn't have an LMG (yet), so they get the BAR, which is classed as an Automatic Rifle.

In this case, most would agree that the MG34 is superior to the BAR in a lot of ways, and so that 1 MG34 > 1 BAR. How do we address this imbalance? Give them more rifles? Give them more BARs? But that now upsets the numbers, and no matter what combination you give, it seems really unfair, like 9 Rifle 1 LMG vs 6 Rifle 4 BAR. Add more types of equipment, and then you have to deal with shuffling again, etc. Hopefully you see the point.

So introducing more total supply as the tiers progress helps with balancing everything because it's easier with larger numbers.

Also also, touching the rifle numbers is tricky, because we don't want to screw over the F2P.

 

US is getting an LMG. Agree about the Semi-Auto, especially since at that time didn't most US troops except for sharpshooters have the M1 Carbine? Could be wrong though.

 

Dunno what the explanation is for the sappers. Historically had a lot of combat engineers? But I'm not sure it'd be more than UK did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, hierbart said:

I ate some french flags for breakfast

This is why we need a "Kill him" button along with the like button.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First thanks for keeping this civil. 

One issue that will be addressed in the meeting tonight is introduction of new equipment in the middle of the campaign (this was root cause of the TOE error for US this campaign)

We let the community down in this respect as the new equipment was put in before the US hit the map, and unfortunately the way the US was coded in effects things we are still discovering. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dre21 said:

I'm just wondering, not to long ago Rebel357 put a post up in the Axis Forum , where I brought up that maybe the guys like Rebel should play ground more when needed. Just to be told by another long time Allied player that the AIR on the Allied side is the great equalizer.

 

Well, to be fair, Rebel does play the ground game also even when not needed. At times when I see him on the ground I want him in the air to get rid of those damn stuka TBs.  Lost 5 tanks to them Sunday and early Monday morning.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dre21 said:

Now why am I saying this , cause myself capped the AF of Cambrai and bounced all the Air units you guys had there with me as a Sapped  and a 9mm Luger in my hand last night.

Fwiw, a lot of players are waiting until next campaign.  The ones who are left are just trying to have a good time.  If this happened one week ago before the collapse, I'd wager that you would have met some more resistance.  

 

I mean, if we suddenly had the will to come back I guess that would be cool to win.  But the thing is, right now the Allies despise playing in T3; Tiger fatigue is a real thing.  The Allies won't be able to execute any kind of crazy cuts because we don't have the morale that the Axis have atm, which means that all of the ground that we lost would have to actually be fought for, town by town - JUST to get back to the starting line, let alone win.  Not many Allied players want to subject themselves to any more T3 than they already have to deal with.  

 

For some people, it's much easier and much more fun to just wait until next campaign, where the lines will be reset in T0 and we have several weeks to wait until the dreaded T3.  

 

EDIT:  I'd like to add that this is not indicative of any sentiments in AHC.  We are working on bettering ourselves and we won't be giving up!

Edited by Capco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.