goreblimey

THE AMERICANS ARE COMING , well some of them

207 posts in this topic

***  They should cut back on bolt actions and other infantry classes proportionately so that the number stays around t0 numbers.

This happened in the past.  When 30 semis were added in tier 1, 30 bolts were removed.  When more semi's were added later, more bolts were removed.

Not sure when it changed, think it was one of the WBS events where they wanted more bolts.

 

Edited by delems

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@delems speculation here, but I think it's related to F2P. F2P needs access to the bolts, because they don't have access to anything else save for the limited SMG in truly limited numbers.

 

It has been said several times by multiple Rats, even prior to the Axis breakout, that supply will be lowered for the next map.

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Gotcha, be sure to lower RDP also, just not as much as the supply.

So, if supply is lowered by 10%, drop RDP by 1 hour; if supply is lowered by 20%, drop RDP by 3 hours, etc.

You get the idea, drop RDP also, but not more than the percent of supply drop.

Also, keep HQs with at least 1 of every tank type, so we can always resupply if need.  I noticed the current axis HQ has no IIIF, IVD or IIIB, so we can't resupply them.

Well, unless that tank type isn't in any INF or ARM flag, then I guess it don't need to be in HQ either.

 

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Not sure about also dropping the RDP timers. The goal seems to be to allow for attrition to actually happen, and lowering the RDP timers compensates for the smaller lists. In effect, a short enough list with a short enough RDP equals the same relative supply as the current list with current RDP.

But, also possible that current RDP would be unreasonably prohibitive with the shorter lists. I'll raise it as a concern.

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We want attrition, but we don't wan't flags empty for hours at a time.

The sweet spot is flags can be attritted faster (with todays pop levels), so towns can be taken - or flag moves made to weaken other areas; but not attritted so the flag stays empty for 6 hours.

Yes, I know, very hard spot to find.  As long as the upcoming supply cut is greater than the RDP cut, shouldn't be an issue imo.

Also, having such long RDP timers makes resupply much riskier as you are emptying your HQ reserve for hours on end. (any chance we can disallow HQs from moving to frontline towns and then cut their RDP ticket time in half?)

 

The real problem is the instant move of flags/supply;  just swap the cool down timer and move timer.

Moves take 1 hour to complete, move cool down timer is 2 minutes.   Instead of the current move in 2 minutes and cool down for 1 hour.

That will change everything, no more JWBS.

 

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Once again the timers are trickle in and take up to 60 min to completely move the supply which was in previous town to the new town, and yes I know it trickles in without discrimination however let's say you have 4 tigers in town A and it is moved to town b the tigers are gone off the map until they trickle into the supply at town b.

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2 hours ago, delems said:

We want attrition, but we don't wan't flags empty for hours at a time.

The sweet spot is flags can be attritted faster (with todays pop levels), so towns can be taken - or flag moves made to weaken other areas; but not attritted so the flag stays empty for 6 hours.

Yes, I know, very hard spot to find.  As long as the upcoming supply cut is greater than the RDP cut, shouldn't be an issue imo.

Also, having such long RDP timers makes resupply much riskier as you are emptying your HQ reserve for hours on end. (any chance we can disallow HQs from moving to frontline towns and then cut their RDP ticket time in half?)

 

The real problem is the instant move of flags/supply;  just swap the cool down timer and move timer.

Moves take 1 hour to complete, move cool down timer is 2 minutes.   Instead of the current move in 2 minutes and cool down for 1 hour.

That will change everything, no more JWBS.

 

one weird visual issue with that, is that, it would take 1 hour to drive from remagen to unkel or roermond to W roermond, and similar situations and short distances.
Also, if i boot you out of a town, we are both sitting there for an hour looking at the big hole in the ground, you cant fall back, and i can not move up.
Just feels kinda wrong.

20 minutes in motion + 10 minutes trickle time on supply fill (includes fallback)
5 minute cool down
Can move to adjacent town only, so if intended destination is 7 towns away, it will take 7 moves or 175 minutes. (flag literally shows up at each town)
Can not move into a contested town, will have to use rear FB
Can not move out of a cut town (all connecting friendly depots capped)

Naval and Air would of course need deviation, they move much differently
No adjacent town limitation 
longer in transit time and longer cool down, less trickle time
Can not move into a contested town, if town becomes contested, rubberband back to origin (AF and Navy kinda need their AF and Dock to function, not rear FB's)
Can not move out of a cut town (all connecting friendly depots capped)

warpy is bad, but if im running away, you do want to kind of be able to chase me, i think?

adjust trickle to whatever works best

Edited by merlin51

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***  let's say you have 4 tigers in town A and it is moved to town b the tigers are gone off the map until they trickle into the supply at town b

I guess you just don't get it?

How long does that take?  I'll tell you. 12 minutes max, every Tiger is there in 12 minutes.  That is no big deal.  You can barely cap 2 CPs in 12 minutes with 1 person at times.

Instant warping of entire armies and platoons of tanks.

But, if flag wouldn't move for an hour; that would be realistic of the troops getting the order to move towns - packing up and going.

 

 

*** one weird visual issue with that, is that, it would take 1 hour to drive from remagen to unkel or roermond to W roermond, and similar situations and short distances.

Which is why flag move times should really be related to distance traveled to the town somehow.

ALSO....  what is stranger, the very few places where it takes to long?  Or right now where every town is hyper fast?
 

Edited by delems

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Delems is correct.  There is a sweet spot with a lower resupply timer and smaller spawn lists.  

 

The problem with lowering resupply timers is that it hurts the effectiveness of RDP bombing.  HOWEVER, that can be counteracted by increasing the time it takes for the factories to repair damage.  

 

@chaoswzkd If you could pass the following general idea along for some discussion that would be amazing. 

 

"Smaller TOEs + shorter resupply timers + longer factory repair timers =  attrition that can occur within the time frame of a typical battle AND attrition that does not last an unreasonably long amount of time."  The longer factory repair timers are the key ingredient to get the best of both worlds.  

 

Many pilots on both sides have been asking for this for years.  RDP has been partially (and unsuccessfully) tweaked in the past but afaik, the factory repair timers were never touched :( 

Edited by Capco

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33 minutes ago, delems said:

How long does that take?  I'll tell you. 12 minutes max, every Tiger is there in 12 minutes.  That is no big deal.  You can barely cap 2 CPs in 12 minutes with 1 person at times.

Imo, you'd want the 1 hour trickle to look something like this:

-Initially, only infantry, AA/ATGs, and trucks trickle in

-Tanks arrive in a time that is proportional to their supply

 

For example, with 4 Tigers, it would take 15 minutes for the first Tiger to arrive, and 60 minutes for all 4 to arrive.  With 2 Matildas it would take 30 minutes for the first Matilda to arrive, and 60 for the second.  With 6 Stugs/M10s/Sherms/4Gs, you'd see 1 new piece of armor in the list every 10 minutes.  Armored units, with larger lists of armor, would have their armor arrive a little bit faster since their intervals would inherently be smaller.  This would be in line with the capabilities of a mechanized force that the armor brigade somewhat represents.  

 

I'm pretty sure that's not doable.  But it would be ideal.  

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Again this is my personal belief (not CRS) supply is being reduced which is first time since 10th division was added, so I dont see the need to reduce RDP as well at this time,  I see your points on the Sweet spot, but I think if you tweek multiple items you lose your baseline and cant truly identify the effect of the adjustment. Once I get more information I will pass it along.

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14 hours ago, BLKHWK8 said:

Again this is my personal belief (not CRS) supply is being reduced which is first time since 10th division was added, so I dont see the need to reduce RDP as well at this time,  I see your points on the Sweet spot, but I think if you tweek multiple items you lose your baseline and cant truly identify the effect of the adjustment. Once I get more information I will pass it along.

Good points.  Changing one thing at a time is best and I get that.  

 

If "the sweet spot" is the ideal end result then I hope that's where your data leads you.  

 

S!

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23 hours ago, stankyus said:

Well, to be fair, Rebel does play the ground game also even when not needed. At times when I see him on the ground I want him in the air to get rid of those damn stuka TBs.  Lost 5 tanks to them Sunday and early Monday morning.

I know he does, but the reason why I mentioned this is ,cause was it 2 campaigns ago you guys were attacking a town and even that we were outnumbered ,you guys could not get a foothold in town ,  I think that was about the time he made said post in the Forum ,  I did shoot him down in the air and he shot me down after but at that time he rather was after 111 then maybe taking a Soldier and cap .

I did my few Air sorties that I do once in awhile and then went back to the ground and helped the side defend the town , in the end the AO was pulled.

You can't cap a town with Tanks and planes you know that.

The reason why Axis always have more INF on the ground ( and you know that too cause you used to be Axis ) it makes no difference if we sit in a Panzer or run around as INF both units die about at the same rate . With one difference more INF = more Cap opportunity. 

Been playing this game long enough and Allied doctrine has always been Roll Tanks lock everything down bring in INF , Axis looks usually like this swarm with INF then call for Panzer , if both arrive at the same time then we usually make gains but not always ,otherwise it's a 50/50 proposition I think.

Now what has me really thinking is !

What is it now ! is it over population or the spawn list that decide who wins the war. I'm sure when the Axis were in that little pocket,  Allies had OP and moral in Axis was down . But I speculate here cause I missed all that cause I wasn't able to play at that time.

 

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I still don't get it?

After all the issues, why are the glaring discrepancies not fixed for the axis side?

Allies have pointed out two issues with their spawn lists - and both times they get corrected within days.

axis points out issues, and they are still not addressed?  Weeks later.

 

How come?

brit navy still gets 15 tanks, should have 5.

usa has 90 bars in list!  Should only be 50.

brit divisions still have 4 battalions of tanks in them, 318.  Should be nearly half that number. (axis has 189)

brit infantry flags still have 19 MG toting CS tanks to axis 4 smoke tanks of which 2 have MGs.  That is like having 17 extra tanks in a list to be used as MG platforms.....

Really?  what is going on?

 

Edited by delems
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Again delems CS tanks have caused 320 casualties this entire campaign.(the StuH42 caused 200 in its limited time in campaign, so who got the better deal especially as 20% of its kills are tanks). 

edit (missed the matilda CS which makes cs look good by comparison lol - about 800 - 900 kills) 

Day 45, thats less than 1 casualty every 3 hours. edit (now with matty 1 per hour ish - still hardly show stopping ) Sure it need fixing, as does the AP supply to allied tanks - effectively reducing our tank killing ability by 60% (yeah its a random number).

Those way extra BARS need reducing for sure.

Brit Navy is obviously wrong.

Every time you whine about this it leads us to investigate other inbalances. I think we are winning this particular argument. 

Next we'll be analysing US vs AXIS tank numbers, care to bet which side has the favourable balance

Edited by goreblimey
new info
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On 6/19/2018 at 9:50 AM, chaoswzkd said:

Audit-o complete-o, and there do appear to be some issues.

Contrary to what I personally think is good for balance (same total # infantry both sides, regardless of equipment, because 1 infantry = 1 capper), looks like Allies always have less total inf supply than Axis.

 

Nee-ways, here's the audit, and it's more comprehensive than what @SCKING did, which is just for T4 I think. Because Allies are split into 3, Axis is taken as the baseline. Unmarked numbers are equivalent to Axis. Red highlight is less, green highlight is more. Division totals are Infantry*2 + Armor + HQ. Total Infantry In Game is used based on 10 Axis Divs, and 6 French Divs with 4 UK Divs for Allies from T0 to T2. I did 6/4 because in game it looks like there are 6 and 4 not counting US and some of them are inactive with US in the game; I don't know if it's ever not 6 and 4. Please let me know if that assumption is wrong. Since it's non-standard for what gets moved where when US enters in T3, I just put '???' there at the end.

 

I do think there are some things to fix here. Keep in mind that it's been announced that CRS has been auditing the TOES for a separate, more complete measure. Those are a bit more substantial than what the game currently has going on, which is why things are slower on that front.

Also take note of... the note... for US supply. It's silly, because Old CRS cludged them in with a rusty crowbar and absolutely nothing even remotely similar to lubrication. That's part of why figuring stuff out for them is such a pain, because you have to look at different tiers than what they're actually at. Also, the tools to handle this stuff are apparently a lot more complicated than looking up the numbers.

No violation of my NDA or anything, this info was taken from the BGE Game Monitor freely available on the site.

 

WWIIOL Infantry Equipment Audit 06182018 21:30 EDT


Edit: Keep in mind this is only Army, non-Para flags. This doesn't include armor, trucks, guns, or anything for Air, Navy, or Paras. It's possible there may be justifications for the discrepancies given those, but that would still conflict with my personal view on infantry balance.

Edit2: Also, keep in mind that this isn't historical. These numbers were touched several times this year alone, with the inclusion of new equipment and the like. There have also been some issues with actually tweaking these numbers seemingly causing unrelated numbers to have issues, etc. So these numbers are not accurate for past campaigns.

Edit3: Keep in mind some of the entries are aggregates. Axis Bolt-Action Rifles are Germany + Italy. Same with SMG. The Semi-Automatic Rifles are both G41s and G43s. That may be part of the cause of some of the discrepancies with trying to keep the numbers straight when their total needs to equal a certain value.

Dont trust the BGE monitor numbers. mine doesnt list Stugs for german units at all for example.

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*** Every time you whine about this it leads us to investigate other inbalances. I think we are winning this particular argument. 

There is no winning?

It is either right or wrong.

I'm not trying to win anything, I'm trying to make sure things are right.

So you think reporting a side has more infantry than the other is whining?  So you allies were whining when axis had more infantry in each flag ???   I see how it goes....  You are whiners?

Or is it whining when axis complains, legitimate cause if allies complain......   Cause I sure heard a lot of 'whining' when axis had more infantry.... and from you too......

 

The numbers are off, plain and simple; I don't care which side is off, they should be fixed.

 

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43 minutes ago, delems said:

*** Every time you whine about this it leads us to investigate other inbalances. I think we are winning this particular argument. 

There is no winning?

It is either right or wrong.

I'm not trying to win anything, I'm trying to make sure things are right.

So you think reporting a side has more infantry than the other is whining?  So you allies were whining when axis had more infantry in each flag ???   I see how it goes....  You are whiners?

Or is it whining when axis complains, legitimate cause if allies complain......   Cause I sure heard a lot of 'whining' when axis had more infantry.... and from you too......

 

The numbers are off, plain and simple; I don't care which side is off, they should be fixed.

 

What you noticed through careful analysis that the brits have some rubbish tanks more than the axis but fail to see the massive infantry imbalance. You carefully ignore the allied tanks have had their AP rounds massively reduced . That does not sound like you care about balance, i'm sure you do, just doesnt look that way from here. Looked more like you were concerned about Allied advantages.

Whatever. 

Balance will come sooooon.  

 

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If you think 130 more tanks is rubbish, why don't we try giving axis 130 extra tanks for a week or two, I mean, it's just rubbish right?   (funny, axis extra 100 rifles wasn't rubbish to you, but 130 tanks are rubbish for us?)
You yourself said the CS tanks already have over 1100 kills, vrs StuH 220 ish.....

And I don't do any 'careful analysis', I just look at base numbers and see if they seem off.

 

You get 19 SMOKE tanks, we get 4, does that not seem odd to you?  And everyone of yours are an efficient MG platform for destroying infantry, two of ours are.......

 

Your tanks should have less AP, that was their real load out, just like our fighter bomber only gets 1 bomb;  but all yours get two.... do you hear us complaining ?
And our big CS tank gets 2 whole smoke rounds....  but we deal with it.  Stop being such a panzy.

 

Edited by delems
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You know what Delems THOSE BRITS DO NEED ADJUSTING.

By my count axis get  49 BATTLE TANKS in an arm BGDE vs  15 ....WTF YEAH BALANCE my [censored]

They get 22 in inf BGDS  vs 20   MORE BALANCE .........

 

 

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6 minutes ago, delems said:

do you hear us complaining ?

Yes. :)

Edited by forrest

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19 minutes ago, delems said:

If you think 130 more tanks is rubbish, why don't we try giving axis 130 extra tanks for a week or two, I mean, it's just rubbish right?   (funny, axis extra 100 rifles wasn't rubbish to you, but 130 tanks are rubbish for us?)
You yourself said the CS tanks already have over 1100 kills, vrs StuH 220 ish.....

And I don't do any 'careful analysis', I just look at base numbers and see if they seem off.

 

You get 19 SMOKE tanks, we get 4, does that not seem odd to you?  And everyone of yours are an efficient MG platform for destroying infantry, two of ours are.......

 

Your tanks should have less AP, that was their real load out, just like our fighter bomber only gets 1 bomb;  but all yours get two.... do you hear us complaining ?
And our big CS tank gets 2 whole smoke rounds....  but we deal with it.  Stop being such a panzy.

 

What the hell does real load out have to do with this game. The real historical  load out is we should have 4 times the number of tanks you have. So you can stop that line of BS now.

I agree they are rubbish , so next week you can have 130 vickers extra lol. plus 20 smoke throwing 4d's. I'll have the 40 Battle tanks   we are owed in their stead. Fair.

  

Edited by goreblimey
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Yes. If we bring our excess smoke tanks back to the dealership can we do a trade-in where we give you 2 in return for 1 battle tank?

Smoke tanks are gently used, very low miles, still have that "new car smell".

Edited by choad
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