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Ordnance arming timers should be compensated for

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Before ordnance arming timers are implemented, bombs should be able to kill medium and heavy tanks without having to literally land on top of them.  A 2.5 second delay could be difference between a stuka pulling out of a dive at 500m vs., say 700 meters; the accuracy goes down.  I get wanting the prevent suicide bombers, but was that really a prevalent issue?  The air game is as close to death as it can get.  To prevent suicide bombers, that timer could go down to 1 second and still work.  This does not seem well-thought out.

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Actually with QA testing we were  seeing 30-40m is the threshold for the 2.5 second delay. We will monitor this, please use .report if you see this is not the case.

 

As for the bomb issue, they are being worked on by the production team. The HE/KE audit was step 1 in a multi-step process to updated to historical aspects.

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2.5 seconds is a obnoxious amount of time for a Stuka in a near vertical ~600 km/h (166 m/s) dive. It's simple math.  I would have to drop the bomb at 417 meters (1368 ft) alt for it to arm in time. Did the Rats solicit opinions before making this change?

Your priorities are bizarre to me. Medium and heavy tanks are practically immune to 250 kg bombs (except for direct hits), and you guys are worried about a few players who suicide bomb. It really is a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment.

Edited by redoak84
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32 minutes ago, redoak84 said:

2.5 seconds is a obnoxious amount of time for a Stuka in a near vertical ~600 km/h (166 m/s) dive. It's simple math.  I would have to drop the bomb at 417 meters (1368 ft) alt for it to arm in time. Did the Rats solicit opinions before making this change?

Your priorities are bizarre to me. Medium and heavy tanks are practically immune to 250 kg bombs (except for direct hits), and you guys are worried about a few players who suicide bomb. It really is a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment.

Isn't that a bit fast for a stuka to be diving in at?  Are you using the dive brakes?  

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4 minutes ago, redst0rm said:

massive mistake. Massive. we asked for bombs that worked... I guess that was too much?

Bombs do work, but if they killed medium and heavy tanks with just near misses we wouldn't have an armor game. 

Look at what 50cals used to do to panzer columns. Decimated. Or 20mm to tank treads. I remember seeing 1 hurricane 2c disable the tracks of about 9 panzers out of a 12 panzer column one day. Huge joke. That's why it was fixed, because air used to decimate the armored game. 

If you have bombs that kill tanks with just near misses, we're back to that again. Tanks die to direct hits and that's good enough for me. 

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23 minutes ago, moe5000 said:

Isn't that a bit fast for a stuka to be diving in at?  Are you using the dive brakes?  

I'm just throwing out an example. If I'm diving through heavy flak with my prop at eco, i bet i'm approaching that. I also neglected gravity and/or terminal velocity in my example, because who knows how it is coded. The point is that they just made bombing tanks even harder. It's just silly.

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so lets just ignore that everything has a counter even including mobile aaa guns and lets just make the airplanes useless against ground targets--because that is what you have accomplished here today. 

Thank you. 

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  1. I dont understand why it disables the bomb from going off completly--why cant teh bomb hit the ground and sit for a second before it explodes? is that really so terrible? 

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11 minutes ago, redst0rm said:
  1. I dont understand why it disables the bomb from going off completly--why cant teh bomb hit the ground and sit for a second before it explodes? is that really so terrible? 

Its to stop the rampant kamikazees. 

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1 hour ago, redoak84 said:

2.5 seconds is a obnoxious amount of time for a Stuka in a near vertical ~600 km/h (166 m/s) dive. It's simple math.  I would have to drop the bomb at 417 meters (1368 ft) alt for it to arm in time. Did the Rats solicit opinions before making this change?

Well, that is actually lower than you would really drop at.
Minimum drop alt in real life is something like 450m 
 

1 hour ago, moe5000 said:

Isn't that a bit fast for a stuka to be diving in at?

He is about right, with dive brake on according to german docs, between 500 and 600 km/h with the dive brake on. throttle off.


Game does not have the auto pull out, but you can kind of rig that with keymapping

 

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6 minutes ago, redst0rm said:
  1. I dont understand why it disables the bomb from going off completly--why cant teh bomb hit the ground and sit for a second before it explodes? is that really so terrible? 

The game is moving toward realism. The game-change is intended to fix gameplay that used to be unrealistic, with vastly too high a percentage of very-low-altitude releases...kamikaze or not.

A common WWII way for a bomb fuze to arm was a small spinner-propeller at the fuze. When the bomb was released from the shackle, the propeller brake was released, and it began to spin. After a revolution counter gets high enough, the fuze arms. 

Suppose the bomb hits the ground before it arms. What would cause the spinner-prop to keep turning so that arming eventually would occur?

General purpose bomb fuzes are never time-delay-after-release. There were/are time delay fuzes, but that's time delay after impact

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1 hour ago, moe5000 said:

Bombs do work, but if they killed medium and heavy tanks with just near misses we wouldn't have an armor game. 

Look at what 50cals used to do to panzer columns. Decimated. Or 20mm to tank treads. I remember seeing 1 hurricane 2c disable the tracks of about 9 panzers out of a 12 panzer column one day. Huge joke. That's why it was fixed, because air used to decimate the armored game. 

If you have bombs that kill tanks with just near misses, we're back to that again. Tanks die to direct hits and that's good enough for me. 

Armour seems overly protected

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19 minutes ago, Silky said:

Armour seems overly protected

I disagree. 

ATGs everywhere now, even the little ATGs spawning from FMS can take out almost all of the armor that is fielded.  Sappers. RPATs. Tankbuster aircraft. Bombers.  Other tanks. 

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1 minute ago, moe5000 said:

I disagree. 

ATGs everywhere now, even the little ATGs spawning from FMS can take out almost all of the armor that is fielded.  Sappers. RPATs. Tankbuster aircraft. Bombers.  Other tanks. 

But we’re saying aircraft bombs cannot be allowed to do historically accurate damage. It does seem the air forces are being neutered for the good of the ground game, with particular focus on armour 

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okay I hear what youre sayin about dropping bombs at an altitude in Real life but think about how stuff renders in on the ground from the air in this game and then factor in your new fancy bombs and youve basically made it impossible. 

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9 minutes ago, Silky said:

But we’re saying aircraft bombs cannot be allowed to do historically accurate damage. It does seem the air forces are being neutered for the good of the ground game, with particular focus on armour 

Did you really think that having 50 cals decimate panzers was good gameplay? Or having 20mm tank every army's tanks with a short burst?  

I'm firmly in the camp that if something is historical and bad for gameplay, change it. It's a game after all, and it's supposed to be fun.  

2 minutes ago, redst0rm said:

okay I hear what youre sayin about dropping bombs at an altitude in Real life but think about how stuff renders in on the ground from the air in this game and then factor in your new fancy bombs and youve basically made it impossible. 

 

Yup, I hear you on this point. Spotting tanks, especially green allied tanks, from the air is incredibly hard for the normal player playing with a normal sized monitor.  Basically the only way I can spot a sherman or a stuart is if it's moving or firing. 

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30 minutes ago, Ltarflak said:

just make the timers like 1 second or 1.5 second,s yeesh 

I think they'll test it and change it if it's not working. 

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1 hour ago, Silky said:

It does seem the air forces are being neutered for the good of the ground game

This has been going on for a long, long time.  *shrug*

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8 hours ago, redst0rm said:

So youre telling me that Time delayed bombs werent a thing in WWII

There were, but on a grade III SC250 GP bomb no.
It wont withstand the impact, casing is not designed to, is designed to blow up right away and throw frags at everyone

Youd get a bomb in pieces with a detonator laying on the ground that goes poof 17 seconds later

 

Edited by merlin51

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very sorry
no idea wtf is up with the self replicating posts :( 

Edited by merlin51

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3 hours ago, merlin51 said:

There were, but on a grade III SC250 GP bomb no.

It wont withstand the impact, casing is not designed to, is designed to blow up right away and throw frags at everyone

Youd get a bomb in pieces with a detonator laying on the ground that goes poof 17 seconds later

6 hours ago, jwilly said:

General purpose bomb fuzes are never time-delay-after-release. There were/are time delay fuzes, but that's time delay after impact

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SC250_bomb

Quote

 

The SC 250 could be fitted with a variety of fuzes depending on the target:

  • Type 25B electric impact fuze. This could be set to instantaneous detonation, short delay (less than 1 second), or for a 17-second delay.[6]
  • Type 17 electric clockwork fuze. This was a time-delay fuze; the Type 17 and 17A could be set for any time between 2 and 72 hours after dropping, while the 17B could be set to detonate between 3 and 135 minutes.[7] To prevent the bomb being defused by Allied bomb disposal personnel they were fitted with:
    • Type ZUS 40 mechanical antiwithdrawal fuze. This was a simple spring-loaded detonator fitted to prevent the removal of the fuze, and resulted in instantaneous detonation if it were moved by more than 15 mm (0.59 in).[8]
    • Type 50 and 50B (called "Type Y" by the British from a distinguishing marking stamped on the face of the fuse) electric anti-disturbance fuze. This used three mercury switches to detonate the bomb if the fuze was disturbed or rotated.[9][10]John Pilkington Hudson was awarded the George Medal in 1943 for disabling the first Y fuze.
  • Type 38 electric impact fuze. The Type 38 was designed for use at low-level against shipping, while the Type 38sl. was for use as an anti-submarine bomb.[11]
  • Type 59B electric aerial burst fuze. Could be set to detonate 12, 41 or 58 seconds after release.[12]
  • Type 79 electric aerial burst fuze. Could be set to detonate either 3, 10, 25 or 30 seconds after release.

 

There where time delay fuzes, they where common because they where quite usefull and bombs (edit: normally!) didn't shatter on impact at normal ground made of dirt (which 99.99% of the ground we are fighting on is made off). IF bombs would shatter on impact, we wouldn't have to defuse all those bombs still lying around under our german cities to this day. In Münster, we just found another one yesterday, it was a 250kg bomb and a part of the city had to be evacuated (which still happens at least once a year). Bombs are made to withstand the impact, that's why a SC250 bomb weighing 250kg is not holding 250, not 200, not 150 but only 130 kg of filling.

That said: Bombs weren't that dangerous to tanks. Only a very few tanks were destroyed by bombs. Killing light and medium tanks with near hits should be a regular thing though. Taking at least one of the tracks of a heavy tank with a near hit should be too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t2cRZTv14o

edit: The newspaper article on the bomb found can be seen here:

http://www.wn.de/Muenster/3354865-Blindgaenger-auf-Hafencenter-Baustelle-Bombenentschaerfung-legt-Hansaviertel-lahm

Edited by vanapo

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Btw: Oh boy, please don't give me bomb with a Type 79 electric aerial burst fuze, that blows the bomb up 3 seconds after RELEASE. :o

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