How can we get beyond pure negativity in the forums?

[XOOM 1,014]

So that we can have a more positive atmosphere, where instead of constant fighting, belittling, and finger pointing exists, we can create a healthy atmosphere that is inviting for participation, which is productive and works to improve the game and community?

[nugx 0]

You have to steer the game in the correct direction, and the rest will follow, there have been many ideas and suggestions posted - but they remain ideas and suggestions untill 'coded' into reality.

People then will be posting less and playing the game more.

 

Here is my idea on what I would do ( note for some other folks: it's only a suggestion it doesn't mean 'OMG IT MUST BE DONE RIGHT NOW EXACTLY LIKE THIS OR ELSE' lol, I shouldn't even have to type this)

1) Release the 1.36 (as I understand you want to finish it without scrapping what has already been done)

2) Finish the front line idea of old rat team

3) Make the graphics upgrade and with that re-release the game on steam with big announcement on steam front page under new name like 'WWIIOnline 2'

4) With the re-release make the game b2p, 1 time fee of 60$ everything unlocked, make new dlcs into the future for 15$, create in-game cash-shop with cosmetics.

Edited September 12, 2018 by nugx

[gretnine 166]

You think the forums are filled with negativity? Hop in-game once in a while for some perspective. Because I for one, am sick of hearing all the complaining on both sides in-game, to the point I don't care to play unless specific people are on. 

[ZEBBEEE 335]

 usual stuff. seeing it for 17 years.

Aside helping some to create a working Tinder profile? Maybe sharing their personal information so the dark net will take care of them (kidding... GDPR no longer allows this in EU )

On a more serious note, need to clarify what complaining is about. Not really understanding what is meant by « pure negativity » though? Lots of positive and constructive discussions too.

About priories? Maybe if people were more involved in discussing game ideas and priorities, they would become aware there are other opinions and many constraints. 

About ingame situation? Some of those lost their squad mates and are looking for friends here. So until squads build up again with their own forum, whining will stay here. Playing wwiiol with squadies makes you forget all your whinies!

We are all like the last survivors of an old vessel that crashed in hostile territory . We must learn to live together in a cave until we get that ship repaired, and you managed to get the engine working again not so long ago..

[nugx 0]

and if you want memeing to stop - create the motorcycle for infantry

[GrAnit 238]

4 hours ago, nugx said:

You have to steer the game in the correct direction, and the rest will follow, there have been many ideas and suggestions posted - but they remain ideas and suggestions untill 'coded' into reality.

People then will be posting less and playing the game more.

 

Here is my idea on what I would do ( note for some other folks: it's only a suggestion it doesn't mean 'OMG IT MUST BE DONE RIGHT NOW EXACTLY LIKE THIS OR ELSE' lol, I shouldn't even have to type this)

1) Release the 1.36 (as I understand you want to finish it without scrapping what has already been done)

2) Finish the front line idea of old rat team

3) Make the graphics upgrade and with that re-release the game on steam with big announcement on steam front page under new name like 'WWIIOnline 2'

4) With the re-release make the game b2p, 1 time fee of 60$ everything unlocked, make new dlcs into the future for 15$, create in-game cash-shop with cosmetics.

The game IS going in the right direction.  You may not think so by your lengthy posts, but many think it is. The new Rats are really doing a fantastic job!  They listen, consider, respond and course correct way better than the old team.   They have talked about their vision: they are working on 1.36 and a graphics upgrade and a release of 2.0 (in case you have not followed the forums for the 6-12 months).  It takes a lot of time and resources which they have precious little of.  So they are going in the right direction.  Constantly criticizing them will do no good and will do harm.  The Rats are people who want the players to like their work.  They generally work for peanuts for a lot longer than 40 hours a week, and many are unpaid volunteers.  Think about working hard and long (months, years) on something under difficult circumstances (as we all have at some time or another), and then think how you would feel getting criticized over and over.  Who wants to continue with that?  So a little love from the community would go a long way.

Edited September 12, 2018 by GrAnit

[nugx 0]

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You may not think so by your lengthy posts, but many think it is

If I wouldn't think it is, i wouldn't bother to post here at all or search for solutions to problems that appear (like we managed to solve the error login issue 2f7d)

Quote

a graphics upgrade and a release of 2.0 (in case you have not followed the forums for the 6-12 months)

I did and that is why  I mentioned it.

Quote

Constantly criticizing them will do no good and will do harm

If you will read any of my posts, you will see I never criticized anyone, I'm only posting suggestions and viewpoints  (if this was towards my post)

 

Quote

Think about working hard and long (months, years) on something under difficult circumstances (as we all have at some time or another), and then think how you would feel getting criticized over and over,  So a little love from the community would go a long way.

The community votes with their wallets, it's as simple as that, it's not about loving or hating someone - if there is a good product, people want to pay for it and come back, if not, they will not pay and won't come back.

Edited September 12, 2018 by nugx

[pbveteran 0]

- Unban everyone who is perma-ban in the game and forums and only perma-ban accounts who actively cheat or do illegal stuff in the game and forums.

(That would be a big step towards creating a positive activity.)

- Work towards a 1 to 1 equal equipment set... axis needs the puma scout car and a good bomber, stuka might not be fast and agile but in real life it carry a huge load up to 3x 500kg bombs, here we have a '39 stuka with a bomb load that can barely kill anything slow and easy to kill and the other stuka was barely produce in the world and it's very hard to use especially with no joystick. (this two Allies already have similar equipment like the db7 and pan/dac)

- Having an apartheid forum makes no sense there should be no premium forum... I don't think there is a game forum in the world like the one we have, a forum is for everyone to share their ideas plus people post url's for things that are being discussed that you can't see.

- Why can't my post be rated and why can't I rate and like free to player replies?... So silly and beneath any common sense... (this only makes CRS look greedy and anti-community)

- Works toward reducing the price of the premium subscription to closer that of 10$ and stay away from nick and dime the game to free players, not allowing F2P to tow, drive para planes, go rifleman para and use binos only shows poor knowledge of this game, the gaming market and todays standards and basic 101 in the roles free to play should have.

- Rethink town supply and HC... work towards what Heroes and Generals have, each paying player could own and command their own battalion.. HC would still command larger battalions or brigades but something like 50% of the tickets should be in the form of player own battalions (this is easier to implement than town supply and only has positives aspects)

 

I think this would cover 70% of the problems especially veterans have with thi games, the other could be achieve my features like taking more power from HC and giving to the player base with battalions, allowing the repair/recrew of tanks and vehicles, this would make tanking less frustrating... The game can be very frustrating at times from controls, features and poor implementations..

Edited September 12, 2018 by pbveteran

[nugx 0]

Good suggestions Pbveteran, suggestions like this is what this game needs and not personal attacks on other players, I would be scribbling everything down into a notepad.

Edited September 12, 2018 by nugx

[choad 222]

Suggestions for cutting back on member vs. member banter and personal attacks. Yeah i'm just as guilty as the rest of you

Maybe activate enhanced ignore features (assuming this forum software has them). We all know there are certain members who really do not warrant our time. Even if you have them ignored, their obnoxious posts show-up in your "recent unread activity" thread. Sometimes you can't help yourself and you just get realed in! Anyways, seeing threads they started creates lots of noise in the feed as well. I think a lot of quibbling would be eliminated if you had true blinders on in this regard.

Wish they had a feature "ignore posts created by ......".

They should have a feature to "ignore topics in this forum" ... when it comes to viewing your unread content feed.

An option to forbid a person from posting on a topic you started would be nice. 

A reciprocal ignore feature. Essentially hide your posts of threads you started from such and such a person, also would be nice.

 

 

[vanapo 190]

A guy spending a big part of his everyday life trying to not only keep this game up and running but improving it is asking for a bit more of an positive attitude and a bit less of finger pointing - and instantly 4 out of 6 guys come forward with their list of demands, listing what they want implemented instantly before they would be willing to reconsider their negativity. And then comes a guy pointing his finger at them for doing this. This tells you a lot about how the forum works.

I'd say you can't take the forum as a whole. We got sub forums with a rather good atmosphere, like "ideas and suggestions". People come there to post what they thought could improve the game. Other people reply with their thoughts if they find it appealing. If they don't find it interesting, they just keep quiet. Not much ranting or finger pointing going on here - but a lot of posts, a lot of views and a healthy discussion that actually kicked off some changes in game.

Where I see the most negative attitude is in the hangar forum. But that is not without reason. This and other sub forums are the first adress for players like myself coming forward with their complaints. There are a lot of passionate air game players in this game and there are a lot of reasons to complain about the air game. With the vivid discussions regarding the problems with RDP warfare and the unbalanced performances of axis and allied airplanes, I also got the impression the hangar forum is now read by a very high percentage of all the pilots left in game. A much higher percentage than let's say the tankers reading everything posted in the motor pool.

You need a place for people knowing the guys on the other side but being unable to talk to them in person, a place where they can shout and shake their fists at them for being cheesy, gamey, unfair and biased mofos. You need a place for people to blow off their steam. This is not a beauty, but it's needed. To be honest, it is a rather good idea to keep this forum locked for people not involved in this domestic violence case of a sub forum

[kase250 163]

19 minutes ago, vanapo said:

A guy spending a big part of his everyday life trying to not only keep this game up and running but improving it is asking for a bit more of an positive attitude and a bit less of finger pointing - and instantly 4 out of 6 guys come forward with their list of demands, listing what they want implemented instantly before they would be willing to reconsider their negativity. And then comes a guy pointing his finger at them for doing this. This tells you a lot about how the forum works.

I'd say you can't take the forum as a whole. We got sub forums with a rather good atmosphere, like "ideas and suggestions". People come there to post what they thought could improve the game. Other people reply with their thoughts if they find it appealing. If they don't find it interesting, they just keep quiet. Not much ranting or finger pointing going on here - but a lot of posts, a lot of views and a healthy discussion that actually kicked off some changes in game.

Where I see the most negative attitude is in the hangar forum. But that is not without reason. This and other sub forums are the first adress for players like myself coming forward with their complaints. There are a lot of passionate air game players in this game and there are a lot of reasons to complain about the air game. With the vivid discussions regarding the problems with RDP warfare and the unbalanced performances of axis and allied airplanes, I also got the impression the hangar forum is now read by a very high percentage of all the pilots left in game. A much higher percentage than let's say the tankers reading everything posted in the motor pool.

You need a place for people knowing the guys on the other side but being unable to talk to them in person, a place where they can shout and shake their fists at them for being cheesy, gamey, unfair and biased mofos. You need a place for people to blow off their steam. This is not a beauty, but it's needed. To be honest, it is a rather good idea to keep this forum locked for people not involved in this domestic violence case of a sub forum

Awesome post Vanapo.

Personally, i am tired of some General Discussions posts talking about the same things again again and again.

 

 

[choad 222]

@vanapo Not sure if you lumped me in the "4 out of 6", but i wiill point out the title of this thread seems to indicate he was asking for suggestions! I offered a couple as it relates to the forms and not the game itself.

I like your idea of each forum member taking responsibility and changing their own attitude. However. I think the human condition is such that it is completely unrealistic to expect much change in that regard. Sorry, just being honest.

Suggestions for tools to help people get beyond the demagogues and trolls seems to me a far more realistic approach. 

[Sudden 848]

I honestly cannot think of anything that will stop it from happening. It's called passion and it comes in many forms, some not so polite. Asking angry frustrated players to tone it down doesn't work. You have laid the groundwork for a better experience by fixing background issues. Now you need to deliver tangible improvements on equipment complaints, ease the learning curve to raise the number of people online and playing. This game cannot be fully enjoyed with low pop numbers.

That said, the only way to get rid of the complainers is to get rid of the non-positive players or deal with their issues one by one until they are solved.

[nugx 0]

Xoom and other Rats, there is an easy solution to this dilemma which has arised again.

Just read the suggestions that players make - which you may like or not and ignore the posters who attack other people.

If someone attacks other players that makes a suggestion, he does nothing but de-rail the topic.

 

If a player cannot discuss the suggestions with factual statements of 'why something like this is bad for this game, or why this would not work', but results to ad hominems, he is not in a position to discuss said ideas.

Edited September 12, 2018 by nugx

[vanapo 190]

24 minutes ago, choad said:

@vanapo Not sure if you lumped me in the "4 out of 6", but i wiill point out the title of this thread seems to indicate he was asking for suggestions! I offered a couple as it relates to the forms and not the game itself.

I like your idea of each forum member taking responsibility and changing their own attitude. However. I think the human condition is such that it is completely unrealistic to expect much change in that regard. Sorry, just being honest.

Suggestions for tools to help people get beyond the demagogues and trolls seems to me a far more realistic approach. 

No, didn't include you in that because you made some suggestions about how to get the positivity train rolling. And I even share some of your points. With some guys posting their constant BS here I really really wished for a working "ignore opinion" tool. So that's ok. I like suggestions. I think suggestions are allways welcome. But if the package of your suggestion reads "will unsub if not..." or "CRS has to deliver on this quickly or else..." you might understand why XOOM is talking about a kind of negative or even hostile attitude. And this doesn't help if you talk like this to people who mostly work on a voluntary basis.

I don't think appealing to people's good will can stop everybody from being an [censored]. But if you point out that we are all in the same boat you might get a lot of people reconsider some of their baddest feelings before posting unfiltered rage all over the forums.

 

[sgthenning 54]

9 hours ago, XOOM said:

So that we can have a more positive atmosphere, where instead of constant fighting, belittling, and finger pointing exists, we can create a healthy atmosphere that is inviting for participation, which is productive and works to improve the game and community?

Until stuff starts getting fixed probably not going to happen. When you do fix something in this game it breaks something else. Which creates more gripes. Need to also stop catering to every allied whim. Every time allies cry fowl their stuff gets fixed immediately while Axis stuff seems to get put on the back burner. Last time I asked a rat why this is he said its easier to fix the allied stuff. Well that's not good enough so Axis stuff that's broke will never get fixed. Axis bombs wont kill inf only damages them. Axis HE is all Broke except for the Destroyers bombs are broke Motors broke and grenade rifles broke. Damage Mod on Allied air still isn't fixed either. Allied bombs will still detonate below 500 all the way down to 50m and wont even kill the plane that dropped it. So when Axis stuff starts getting fixed then maybe it will improve which isn't likely to happen. Look at the road map you have; Allies are getting the P40 P39 what are axis getting nothing to compete with it. I am going to say it again Allied Air is all one sided and that is a fact. Allies already got the P38 now they getting the P39 P40 its high time that the Axis got some stuff they have needed for a long time and with the introduction of the P40 and P39 Axis should be getting the ME262, Ju88 which is long overdue panther long overdue. But then when you do introduce those things Allied players will cry fowl so it will never stop its the nature of the beast. The only way that I can see this stopping is dump the historical accuracy stuff and make every thing in the game equally killable. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by sgthenning

[sorella 1,248]

1. this is a military simulation: soldiers gripe about everything - always have, always will. 
2. this is a game: gamers complain about everything - always have, always will. 
3. listen to reasonable suggestions to improve the game and respond when/if you have time
4. keep communicating with the PB (not necessarily or always on the forums) and continue to make roadmap, planning and timing as clear as possible 
5. visit OT - its more fun than the forums

[BLKHWK8 409]

I think the point being made here is there is a difference between negativity and constructive criticism. Being civil and thoughtful in the forums can achieve a better response.

For example - Sgthenning mentions the allies cry and CRS fixes immediately. This is simple not true period. I also would like to know which rat said we fix allied stuff because it's easier. I highly doubt this was said.  I also remember when you playing allied the same complaints about axis fixes. 

My point is perception is not fact.  Since I joined this team the conversation has always been on overall game play.

[hateract 146]

Separate or create a separate space for griping/complaining, negativity and watch it closely. Fact of the matter is, we are participants in an ever-changing online world. Complaints and negativity ate attributes to human nature, and cannot be eliminated. They can however, be isolated and steered towards some form of constructivity give basic ground rules. Players and people will always need a place to let of steam and gripe. One of the amazing factors with ww2ol is how emotionally invested players get, it's the tell tale sign of a solid world. But with that emotional investment means positive, and as I said negative. A healthy space to vent these frustrations and feelings when they come would be a good start, that way they do not leak into forum threads where the goal is to improve. I do not have the least bit of idea of how we can implement this, but I feel it would certainly help. We all have our moments of frustration, often times we just need to clean the air and drive on, how can we implement that? If we have it, I think we will see much of the negativity dissappear from standard forums.

[krazydog 146]

Make one full campaign where the Axis side must use Allied equipment, and the Allied side must use Axis equipment.

Then people will realize everything is  actually balanced lol.

[deride 12]

I realize no one gives a damn about my opinion, but here goes Matt;

you have two fundamental problems, first off... the very nature of the game promotes an "us vs them" mentality, there is no getting around it.  You have an adversarial relationship from jump street between players of opposing sides.  While this is not inherently a bad thing, the side effect is, unfortunately, you are going to get some people who lose perspective and are biased.  When something very blatantly helps one side (like the spawn lists are out of whack) all it does is throw gasoline on the fire.

The second problem is at this stage of the life of the game you have people who have massively invested their most critical resource (time) into the game and want to see what they want to see.  They are long past any sort of half-measure satisfying them, you have to give them something completely unique and compelling to re-energize their will to play.

As for what can be done? on the first part not much, other than total transparency as far as you can fathom.  Now, you guys are way more transparent than the last bunch, but there are so many details we as players really want to know (who is banned, what are they banned for, how many people do we have playing, why are campaign stats not saved, etc) and up to this point there is no indication we will ever get that sort of knowledge.  I get it.  Realize that even this though won't stop all the negativity, some people are just dogmatic.

As for the second thing?  There are all sorts of things you could try, but most of them judging by how difficult they would be to setup, are a pipedream.  One thing that is somewhat easy with a bit of pre-testing: create another scenario to offer other than "Blitzkrieg."  I have suggested in the past a simulation of the allied invasion of france, but that was poo poo'd pretty quick.  have a decent idea how to implement it, but again was shutdown so fast it's not worth repeating without some acknowledgement.

my 1/50th of a dollar.

[XOOM 1,014]

2 hours ago, sgthenning said:

Until stuff starts getting fixed probably not going to happen. When you do fix something in this game it breaks something else. Which creates more gripes. Need to also stop catering to every allied whim. Every time allies cry fowl their stuff gets fixed immediately while Axis stuff seems to get put on the back burner. Last time I asked a rat why this is he said its easier to fix the allied stuff. 

Just would like to point out, that if this was indeed said, it's entirely inaccurate. No one side's things are easier to fix versus the other, and no one side is considered favored above the other at CRS. CRS = WWII Online bias in totality, nothing less.

Thanks for the feedback  

[XOOM 1,014]

30 minutes ago, deride said:

I realize no one gives a damn about my opinion, but here goes Matt;

you have two fundamental problems, first off... the very nature of the game promotes an "us vs them" mentality, there is no getting around it.  You have an adversarial relationship from jump street between players of opposing sides.  While this is not inherently a bad thing, the side effect is, unfortunately, you are going to get some people who lose perspective and are biased.  When something very blatantly helps one side (like the spawn lists are out of whack) all it does is throw gasoline on the fire.

The second problem is at this stage of the life of the game you have people who have massively invested their most critical resource (time) into the game and want to see what they want to see.  They are long past any sort of half-measure satisfying them, you have to give them something completely unique and compelling to re-energize their will to play.

As for what can be done? on the first part not much, other than total transparency as far as you can fathom.  Now, you guys are way more transparent than the last bunch, but there are so many details we as players really want to know (who is banned, what are they banned for, how many people do we have playing, why are campaign stats not saved, etc) and up to this point there is no indication we will ever get that sort of knowledge.  I get it.  Realize that even this though won't stop all the negativity, some people are just dogmatic.

As for the second thing?  There are all sorts of things you could try, but most of them judging by how difficult they would be to setup, are a pipedream.  One thing that is somewhat easy with a bit of pre-testing: create another scenario to offer other than "Blitzkrieg."  I have suggested in the past a simulation of the allied invasion of france, but that was poo poo'd pretty quick.  have a decent idea how to implement it, but again was shutdown so fast it's not worth repeating without some acknowledgement.

my 1/50th of a dollar.

Your opinion does matter @deride, and I am glad you took the time to write something up. It was meaningful and good for me to hear and consider, as there's quite a bit in there that I agree with and can immediately acknowledge. I want to reflect on it a bit along with several other postings being made here.

A large part of my original posting here has been to reach out to you guys and see how we can improve things. Our team desires to do that, just as many of you do.

[kareca 76]

4 hours ago, choad said:

Suggestions for cutting back on member vs. member banter and personal attacks. Yeah i'm just as guilty as the rest of you

Maybe activate enhanced ignore features (assuming this forum software has them). We all know there are certain members who really do not warrant our time. Even if you have them ignored, their obnoxious posts show-up in your "recent unread activity" thread. Sometimes you can't help yourself and you just get realed in! Anyways, seeing threads they started creates lots of noise in the feed as well. I think a lot of quibbling would be eliminated if you had true blinders on in this regard.

Wish they had a feature "ignore posts created by ......".

They should have a feature to "ignore topics in this forum" ... when it comes to viewing your unread content feed.

An option to forbid a person from posting on a topic you started would be nice. 

A reciprocal ignore feature. Essentially hide your posts of threads you started from such and such a person, also would be nice.

 

 

simply ridiculous...

would start blocking this.

Democracy. !!!!!

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by kareca