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goreblimey

TIER 1 armour BALANCE need looking at

185 posts in this topic

26 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

If our, meaning Allied and Axis, voices matter equally and if you actually listen to the playerbase. 

They absolutely do, and CRS has demonstrated that we will listen and incorporate feedback that is valuable and reasonable.

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20 minutes ago, XOOM said:

They absolutely do, and CRS has demonstrated that we will listen and incorporate feedback that is valuable and reasonable.

You were around when the Tiger/m10 debacle was happening, you remember what happened. This stuff that's being talked about here is almost exactly like it. 

8 minutes ago, dropbear said:

Soooo, if we are going all out historical, the allies will be getting RG's back?

 

They should. Then by the last tier the LW should have a chance to not have fuel at an AF lol. Among other things ha

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On 9/16/2018 at 9:57 PM, stankyus said:

You all do that, Ill take my toys and go home. Bottom line.

Why?
And nothing i said was any part of the development production plan, i said that right off, was very 1st thing i said.
I dont even do anything with tiers and TOE.
But still, why?

Say its late T2
Axis field a low amount of tigers (they only had a very small amount ready at that time)

Ok now where are they?
Well, they aint at every garrison.
As i said, some kind of mechanic to localize it.
For sake of argument lets call it a modifier flag, and lets say there are only 2 of them.
And lets say that once applied to a garrison, it is real time days before you can remove it to apply someplace else.
And lets say that modifier flag provided units can not be overstocked to try to game the game to produce extra.
They always return home when RTB'd.
And when killed they run a separate specialty rebuild/resupply time which is longer.
And lets also say that you can see where the modifiers are placed, maybe a flag on the garrison that shows reinforced by 501st heavy panzer

So you got 2 axis garrisons on the entire T2 map, that have a small amount of tigers, that cant be magically increased or spread all over.
(and change Tiger to any other unit of similar circumstance)
They are not immortal, you can kill them as a team, heck you could take one out with a T0 TD, if you can set it up for the fall and roll the TD in that close (though that would definitely not be my 1st choice of things to do because with my luck, it would turn around before i got close and i'd become the wacky laffly weenie roast)

It's literally a situation of
Axis has sent tigers to dinant!!
Well good then there wont be any at brussels or maube or waterloo or......

Or flip it
Allies deployed 5 mattilda II's west of dordrecht
Good, then we know 100 places where there wont be a single matty 2
The mattys have just become an event if you will.

And then as tier/equipment situations change, the localized units migrate to genpop under what ever supply setup
that is suitable for them.

 

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Merlin, you're missing the point...The better equipment WILL draw in more players, even if they can only use it once in a while. 

Allies are in dire straights right now, lost what? 7 out of the last 10 maps?  So the Rats are going to make them less attractive to play? 

Seems legit. 

Were you around when the tiger/m10 thing happened? 

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22 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

You were around when the Tiger/m10 debacle was happening, you remember what happened.

This should be resolved now, correct?

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Just now, XOOM said:

This should be resolved now, correct?

How? Aren't you looking to put the tiger into a tier with no counters?  

A historical enter date of equipment, I thought that what is going to happen? 

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1 minute ago, Mosizlak said:

A historical enter date of equipment, I thought that what is going to happen? 

It's a key item that is probably the safest of anything being discussed here. But as it relates to manipulating these spawn lists, and their years of entry, if you haven't seen by now is going to be a risky proposition across the board. Which is why we're talking about it in advance.

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9 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

Were you around when the tiger/m10 thing happened?

Yes, but there was 0 control.
The tiger wasnt a cool event or challenge or a resource to carefully think about where to place.
it was just everyplace and bunches and it kind of became the MBT.
Nothing was done or created to give it any kind of realistic availability in a limited amount of locations, it basically blew all the cool factor to it.

It was kind of like playing an RPG and every place you stepped triggered a boss fight
where every boss showed up

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Not gonna work. You give sexier toys to one side and you'll see what happens. We already saw what happened. 

Controls or no, it won't matter. 

Why F with something if it isn't broken? I thought the whole idea was to flesh out the tiers, not turn them upside down and give one side the goods.  Makes zero sense. 

Who is going to play BEF in the 1st tier with no SMGs? That alone should make you people balk, but it's not. That's scary. 

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*** How? Aren't you looking to put the tiger into a tier with no counters?  

What are you saying?  That is completely false.

I can name 3 things right off the bat in plentiful supply that destroys Tigers: armored car, sapper, any ATG.

And I haven't even looked at the armor that can flank the Tiger. (or air.......)

Not only that, tier 2 has the zooka.

Too much whining mozi.  Way too much.

 

As for tier 0 British rifle, fastest bolt cycle in game, easily best rifle.

And, I'm sure there will be times when allies outclass axis (like every tier 0 for the last 17 years, how soon we forget....).

 

Finally, the last 10 maps have gone 6-3-1 in axis favor; and axis was 2-3 the 5 before that.  So, 8-6-1 over that last 15 maps isn't that extreme.

 

Edited by delems

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You're being obtuse, delems, and you know it. 

Any ATG? You have to get very close on the flank for the tier0 ATGs. 6lber?  About 800 frontally. 

Armored car? Cmon. Give me a break. Pan can't kill the tiger. DAC has to get to point blank range on the flank. It happens about 3x a map.

It's not whining when you want the game to survive for BOTH sides, not just the Germans. 

You tell me how awesome the enfield bolt cycle is when you're facing an SMG. Pointless.

Poor German side, always hold the winning edge but crying, always. Open your eyes.  

PS: I call it like I see it, regardless which side I play. You should try it, it's enlightening. 

Edited by Mosizlak
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3 hours ago, HATCH said:

You would be surprised at how equal both the budget and production numbers remain between the active participants between US, Brit, and German forces throughout the war. So for the most part I don't think we'll have to worry about that till later tiers. But by keeping the budgets and costs the same or an average overall budget and equipment costs throughout all tiers, there are no real shortage other than that caused by RDP effects. With the French we have to extrapolate because in YOUR war, the French do not have to capitulate. We want to stick to debut dates as much as possible as that mimics the personality of the forces for all combatants. I think the biggest difference will have to be in the obsolescent regime where we'll probably have to negate or refund the effect of some obsolescent machinery on the budget to some degree because to take them out kills the lower rank and DLC players, but to leave them in in at full strength and counting against the budget could negatively harm the purchasing of newer equipment. 

How can you say budget and production numbers are equal ......https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

Axis are in for a very unfair game if we go all historical on them.

Lets face it any rear town resupply column from T3 onwards should 1) 50% run out of POL , 2)Lose 50% of vehicles due to Breakdown , 3) Take 200% longer to reach the target due to being horse drawn - actually this should apply from T0 onwards.

Strict Historical introduction of Kit just  allows Axis forces to pad its lineup with star attractions - Its gonna FAIL.

 

Munitions Production in World War II
(Expenditures in billions of dollars, US 1944 munitions prices)
Country/Alliance Year
Average
1935-39
1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 Total
1939–44
U.S.A. 0.3 1.5 4.5 20.0 38.0 42.0 106.3
Britain 0.5 3.5 6.5 9.0 11.0 11.0 41.5
U.S.S.R. 1.6 5.0 8.5 11.5 14.0 16.0 56.6
Allies Total 2.4 10.0 20.0 41.5 64.5 70.5 204.4
Germany 2.4 6.0 6.0 8.5 13.5 17.0 53.4
Japan 0.4 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.5 6.0 16.9
Axis Total 2.8 7.0 8.0 11.5 18.0 23.0 70.3

Source: Goldsmith data in Harrison (1988) p. 172

 

 

Edited by goreblimey

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1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

Who is going to play BEF in the 1st tier with no SMGs? That alone should make you people balk, but it's not. That's scary. 

Hatch said earlier in the thread that the forthcoming discussion would include whether to base TOEs solely on historical data, or solely on play balance, or on a hybrid.

You seem to be arguing that CRS is foolish to already have decided to base TOEs solely on historical data.

I don't think anyone from CRS has said that's the intent.

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35 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Hatch said earlier in the thread that the forthcoming discussion would include whether to base TOEs solely on historical data, or solely on play balance, or on a hybrid.

You seem to be arguing that CRS is foolish to already have decided to base TOEs solely on historical data.

I don't think anyone from CRS has said that's the intent.

Comes from years of experience... 

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1 hour ago, jwilly said:

You seem to be arguing that CRS is foolish to already have decided to base TOEs solely on historical data.

I will not say anyone is foolish.

But the game has been launched on steam at the current state, which produced this:

 

gPVz5Wz.png

XV3C1po.png

 

If this isn't an indication and a wake up call, that people don't want a game like this in this state, then i don't know what is.  (and I'm not talking about 448 people only playing - because if those 448 stayed, the game would be pretty alive, i'm talking about the big drop in short time)

Edited by nugx

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1 hour ago, nugx said:

I will not say anyone is foolish.

But the game has been launched on steam at the current state, which produced this:

 

gPVz5Wz.png

XV3C1po.png

 

If this isn't an indication and a wake up call, that people don't want a game like this in this state, then i don't know what is.  (and I'm not talking about 448 people only playing - because if those 448 stayed, the game would be pretty alive, i'm talking about the big drop in short time)

The big drop in a short amount of time indeed sucks, but it's recognition that our game is niche. I don't think anyone's arguing that. But the niche that we have is very hardcore, like simulation maximum. 

Our Roadmap is intended to help boost numbers up again, by stabilizing game play, getting integrated voice comms, etc. Big things to help the game as it is.

Once this Roadmap is completed, we are going to take a big step back and evaluate everything we're working on, and deciding exactly our route forward. And I don't mean keep doing the same'ole same'ole. We need to figure out our bold step forward, as a team, and it's going to take sometime to do that.

We've added fixes, we've added content. We're doing so now as a means to continue to deliver and stabilize / build up our population and subscriber base. But to go another 20 years, we need to look at the big picture and see what we can do with the resources we have. Or make a plan for what is needed to do something radical.

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If I may be so bold

Quote

simulation maximum.

This is the problem

 

Xoom and CRS team I wish you all the best, I truly do, otherwise I wouldn't be making all those suggestions. S!

Edited by nugx

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DLCs seem to have revived Steam use a bit lately. Anyway, thread created by a player currently losing, who never played Axis. Same old.

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9 minutes ago, ebert100 said:

DLCs seem to have revived Steam use a bit lately. Anyway, thread created by a player currently losing, who never played Axis. Same old.

OP was checking TOE just to be sure all is as it should be , after recent ----ups. I noticed said imbalance if Inf BGD is right - allies are getting short changed. If Arm Brigade is right then Axis are getting screwed either way it doesnt look right.

Try Flash99 as my other account - played axis plenty.

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Gee That Goreblimey guy knows his stuff :)

And it appears I have 10,000 more axis sorties than you ebert100 lol

Edited by flash99

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I'm with Moz on this one.  The Allies will always play catch up when it comes to the introduction of new stuff.

Axis or Germany introduced a new piece of Armor , Allies played catch up.

Which in my eyes would be bad for the game . 

Cause most players will flock to the side that gets the new stuff and then what is the insentive to go back none cause the Map might be tilted one way so much already that the player base just says F it .

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4 hours ago, flash99 said:

Gee That Goreblimey guy knows his stuff :)

And it appears I have 10,000 more axis sorties than you ebert100 lol

Goreb  take the stats page with a heavy bag of salt please . I have been playing since 2001 and look at my stats , you are aware the old CRS lost a shiat load of stats when they played around and switched Stat pages. 

Even as we speak the stats are wonky killed 4 as a Sniper yesterday only 2 show up in stats page. The guy that I killed in Binche doesn't show at all . Was a lost soul green tag running around in town shooting his rifle off till I found him and put an end to the noise disturbance . How he got lost in that town is beyond me there was no AO on it and I figured I check the EWS out just to be sure.

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44 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Goreb  take the stats page with a heavy bag of salt please . I have been playing since 2001 and look at my stats , you are aware the old CRS lost a shiat load of stats when they played around and switched Stat pages. 

Even as we speak the stats are wonky killed 4 as a Sniper yesterday only 2 show up in stats page. The guy that I killed in Binche doesn't show at all . Was a lost soul green tag running around in town shooting his rifle off till I found him and put an end to the noise disturbance . How he got lost in that town is beyond me there was no AO on it and I figured I check the EWS out just to be sure.

Are you trying to say ebert100 is your account dre?

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2 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Are you trying to say ebert100 is your account dre?

No , just stating facts . The Stats are a far cry from reality. 

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