goreblimey

TIER 1 armour BALANCE need looking at

173 posts in this topic

My guess is that buying equipment from the future (i.e. sooner than historical research says it could have been fielded) is a non-starter.

Willy, Xoom said that in future Rats will not be doing 'same ol, same ol', if they don't want to be doing 'same ol' - then 100% realism need to be dropped.

 

There would be no historically supported context in which a Tiger could have been built and fielded in 1940

In history no, but it would be fun for the gameplay.

 

Whoooo could it be floating a pay to win game idea?

lol, it's totaly the opposite, it's furthest away from pay to win it can be.

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On 18.9.2018 at 9:32 AM, flash99 said:

Gee That Goreblimey guy knows his stuff :)

And it appears I have 10,000 more axis sorties than you ebert100 lol

:) Ok, i got it wrong.

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2 minutes ago, nugx said:

Willy, Xoom said that in future Rats will not be doing 'same ol, same ol', if they don't want to be doing 'same ol' - then 100% realism need to be dropped.

The logic here is so flawed I'm struggling to figure out which logical fallacy this adheres to most closely. I'll get back to you.

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1 hour ago, madrebel said:

The logic here is so flawed I'm struggling to figure out which logical fallacy this adheres to most closely. I'll get back to you.

 

Madrebel, it's pretty simple, WWIIOL 2000-2004 was not realistic, but was fun.

See the paradigm?

 

Sticking only to realism in games = not fun

Non realism = fun

 

For WWIIOL the best would be to be in the middle         FUN ---------------------- WWIIOL --------------------- Realism

Edited by nugx

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elements of the game may have been subjectively more fun, others weren't. its also obvious many disagree with your recollection. therefore, tossing out a blanket statement for solving the worlds problems that makes no sense and suffers from terrible logical coherency breaking many fallacies along the way isn't something anyone should do anything with.

 

by your logic, they should put back in HE that clips so 109s can lay waste to a line of tanks again. that was fun to do for the 109.

 

i don't expect you to see the problem.

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by your logic, they should put back in HE that clips so 109s can lay waste to a line of tanks again. that was fun to do for the 109.

 

i don't expect you to see the problem.

 

Ah but I understand this.

Some elements of 'fantasy' would totaly brake the game - but some elements can be bended and the game can still play realistic.

For example the flight models and damage models in WWIIOL are supposed to go in more realistic way than arcade - and I agree with that, but some gameplay elements need to be bended to introduce some sort of unpredictability, so the game is not stale - if the game is stale, people create META (i presume you know the concept? Most Effective Tactic Available)

 

Having for example a tiger in 1940 by a player, would brake that META, because going out into the battle - you never know what to expect, the game is never the same, see where I'm getting at?

Edited by nugx

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21 minutes ago, madrebel said:

by your logic, they should put back in HE that clips so 109s can lay waste to a line of tanks again. that was fun to do for the 109.

nugx would say, it's ok if the 109 grinded to clipping HE ammo so he can have his "5 minutes of glory" with unrealistic and unhistoric but "fun" über-ammo - et voila: Welcome to Fantasy World War 2 online. Isn't it then fun ride we all lined up for!?

Edited by vanapo

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57 minutes ago, vanapo said:

nugx would say, it's ok if the 109 grinded to clipping HE ammo so he can have his "5 minutes of glory" with unrealistic and unhistoric but "fun" über-ammo -et voila. Welcome to Fantasy World War 2 online. Isn't it then fun ride we all stay in line for?

HE clips that lay waste to tank is a bad idea - that's what I would say.

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13 minutes ago, nugx said:

 

Ah but I understand this.

Some elements of 'fantasy' would totaly brake the game - but some elements can be bended and the game can still play realistic.

For example the flight models and damage models in WWIIOL are supposed to go in more realistic way than arcade - and I agree with that, but some gameplay elements need to be bended to introduce some sort of unpredictability, so the game is not stale - if the game is stale, people create META (i presume you know the concept? Most Effective Tactic Available)

 

Having for example a tiger in 1940 by a player, would brake that META, because going out into the battle - you never know what to expect, the game is never the same, see where I'm getting at?

you're suggesting breaking the game to avoid monotony while also suggesting there is no other way to do this. the thing you're not saying is that your butt hurt you can't have wild west attacks anymore so the only thing left, in your tiny little mind, is to allow gross imbalances to avoid what you suggest is an otherwise stale game. again, because you cant have your wild west everything else is stale.

 

thats what you really mean right?

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you're suggesting breaking the game to avoid monotony while also suggesting there is no other way to do this.

If you can provide me with realistic approach that brakes monotony - then i'm listening

 

Quote

You can't have wild west attacks anymore

And I agree with others that wild west attacks is a thing of the past - the 'front line' from 2012 should be finished

 

Quote

is to allow gross imbalances to avoid what you suggest is an otherwise stale game

Everything would balance each other out in the end - because players from both sides would be able to purchase better stuff, so when someone would have a tiger, someone else would roll out a ATG or  tank from higher year that would blow off the tiger.

Adapt to every situation.

Edited by nugx

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4 hours ago, stankyus said:

If there was just one thing I learned about you.. (not only) but if I had a take away and had to put one thing down. Balance was a P1 for you and when we had balance issues you fixed them.. one of the comments you said, I still repeat to this day.  "Nothing is for free".

Absolutely.  Doc had the balance down pat.  I never once had to point out a supply issue to him (apart from M10s in T0 but that was a real anomaly).

 

But with new CRS?  Balance seems to be a problem every other campaign.  We still have the obscene amount of Tigers in T3+...

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1 hour ago, nugx said:

 

Madrebel, it's pretty simple, WWIIOL 2000-2004 was not realistic, but was fun.

See the paradigm?

 

Sticking only to realism in games = not fun

Non realism = fun

 

For WWIIOL the best would be to be in the middle         FUN ---------------------- WWIIOL --------------------- Realism

Its really quite simple.

Realism - Make vehicles, ammo, HE, planes, guns, sites, performance as realistic as can be = (FUN)

Fantasy - adhere to a balance based off of DOCs old CVC model etc. that might include time warps and What IF's =  (FUN)

Socialization, a sense of ownership (sadly coded out), and squad organization = The games glue

THAT is what makes WWIIOL a challenging and fun Sim game.

 

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1 hour ago, Capco said:

Absolutely.  Doc had the balance down pat.  I never once had to point out a supply issue to him (apart from M10s in T0 but that was a real anomaly).

 

But with new CRS?  Balance seems to be a problem every other campaign.  We still have the obscene amount of Tigers in T3+...

Well it looked good on paper.. and implemented too early for the BEF and we had a catch up game. However DOC did get the priorities moved around to fix the issue and added the CH3, CH7, and S76 into the game as fast as they could. It was a bad mistake and cost dearly but it was rectified.  The Tiger balance issue was studied and fixed and he backed up the decision with often unseen, unspoken of data. Now of course we argued about it till our faces where blue in the forums but IMO, that was healthy toward the decision.

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On the PAK 36 Ive killed everything the allies have with it, its probly my favorite atg in the game.

As far as the French 25mm ATG it should be replaced with either the 2lb'er or mainly for Americans the M3 ATG it was a 37mm ATG.

An Historical TO&E would give the British according to the TO&E of British 4th Armored Brigade for France was 100 Matildas.

100 Mattys in tier 0 you wanna see that ? lol

S!

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29 minutes ago, flong139 said:

An Historical TO&E would give the British according to the TO&E of British 4th Armored Brigade for France was 100 Matildas.

100 Mattys in tier 0 you wanna see that ? lol

23 Matilda IIs in France...some of them CS. Any remaining Matildas in France were Matilda I.

All armies' TOEs often are theoretical, particularly during weapon introduction-transitions (i.e. Matilda I --> II) and during and following combat (i.e. Battle of France, during which the actual armament of the entire surviving/escaped BEF went essentially to zero).

Whatever "history" means, it doesn't mean theoretical.

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49 minutes ago, jwilly said:

An Historical TO&E would give the British according to the TO&E of British 4th Armored Brigade for France was 100 Matildas.

 

49 minutes ago, jwilly said:

23 Matilda IIs in France...some of them CS. Any remaining Matildas in France were Matilda I.

And 473 Mattys killed so far this campaign. The loss rate of our tanks over a week is not 10-20% but rather 200-600%, especially  when it comes to heavy tanks. So you can never put as many tanks into a brigade as would have been available in total at a given time or this becomes a slugfest. Also keep in mind that the balance of equipment changed drastically with player numbers. A mix between medium and heavy tanks + ATGs can be quite balanced on a day with 100 players, it can be in favor of one side when 300 players are playing and in favor of the other side if only 30 people are playing. After all this is not just rock, paper, scisssors.

Edited by vanapo

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1 hour ago, stankyus said:

Its really quite simple.

Realism - Make vehicles, ammo, HE, planes, guns, sites, performance as realistic as can be = (FUN)

Fantasy - adhere to a balance based off of DOCs old CVC model etc. that might include time warps and What IF's 

THAT is what makes WWIIOL a challenging and fun Sim game.

 

It is that simple.

 

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Well Axis do go after the Matilda in tier0 like the Allies do against the Tiger.

Number 1 priority is the elimination of the Matilda and then we go after the other Armor. 

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49 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Well Axis do go after the Matilda in tier0 like the Allies do against the Tiger.

Number 1 priority is the elimination of the Matilda and then we go after the other Armor. 

Sadly most allied players dont realise that Matildas, their most valuable asset ,needs protecting or won't.

Edited by goreblimey
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Jwilly sorry ppl mentioned the TO&E not actual i gave the TO&E of the 4th armored brig in france sorry next time i will anticipate that TO&E is actual not what was the planned TO&E I can talk real numbers with you all day you wanna come an correct me when my statement was correct.

Go fk yourself

Of course no brig ever has TO&E as written, didnt think this was mention everything in the history of military order sorry

S!

 

Edited by flong139
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1 hour ago, flong139 said:

Jwilly sorry ppl mentioned the TO&E not actual i gave the TO&E of the 4th armored brig in france sorry next time i will anticipate that TO&E is actual not what was the planned TO&E I can talk real numbers with you all day you wanna come an correct me when my statement was correct.

Go fk yourself

Of course no brig ever has TO&E as written, didnt think this was mention everything in the history of military order sorry

S!

 

4th armoured Brigade - you talking about the one assigned to the Desert Force?

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May have ended up in the desert but was intended for BEF.

The other armoured brigs weren't that beefy on there TO&E so probable they intended it on paper as a spearhead brigade.

S!

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