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goreblimey

TIER 1 armour BALANCE need looking at

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goreblimey
1 hour ago, saffroli said:

I play allied on intermission, I pop tiger glass cannons more easily than I can kill ei. PLus any side impact from s76 or m10 and tiger is dead. What you're encountering is GOOD TANKERS. Who position their tanks well.



Super easy.

4g pops like a bug frontally from everything the allies have, yes, even the [censored] 25mm from 500m +

You really don't have it as bad as you think.

If it was that bad, then whenever we get to tier2 or 3 we would automatically roll, and that doesn't happen. It only happens cos axis are already rolling.


Just imagine playing as pak36 knowing that there is nothing you can do that can kill a matty. NOTHING. 

Intermission with unlimited supply and newb Tiger drivers aint the real test is it ?

4G pops as does its counterpart s75. 

Pak 36 definitely can kill matty , especially now that its been buffed by the discovery of some magical round. More importantly the Pak 36 is a serious threat to Late Tier allied Armour.

Un-killable ets Dont exist by the way.

Just cos allies have 8 Heavies per division that are difficult to deal with in T0, please stop spinning the myth that this superiority extends into T1.

I raised the subject not about who has the better of it, but because if balance is right as per the Inf Brigade supply , then it is woefuly broken in he Arm Brigade supply.

On a Final note the super UNKILLABLE CHAR Ive taken out 3-4 times this campaign 2 of those times its been killed at 1500 m frontally. NAME ME AN ALLIED TANK THAT CAN SEE AND FRONTALLY  KILL A  3H or STUG at 1500m . 

 

Edited by goreblimey

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Merlin51
17 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

NAME ME AN ALLIED TANK THAT CAN SEE AND KILL A  3H or STUG at 1500m

A B1 bis and Somua S35
I'd say a Laffly W15TCC but it isn't a tank

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saffroli
31 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

 

Pak 36 definitely can kill matty , especially now that its been buffed by the discovery of some magical round. More importantly the Pak 36 is a serious threat to Late Tier allied Armour.

 

 

IT. CAN. NOT.

FACT

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stankyus
2 hours ago, merlin51 said:

Just my own thoughts (meaning has 0 bearing on game related decisions)
Tiger I would appear in late T2 (this is assuming multi staged tiers)
It's numbers would be very low and localized(by some mechanic that limited where one would be actually available)
Low enough that one appearing would be an "Oh Snit, they have a cave troll" moment. 

And you would have to work together to get rid of it with (assuming a more finished equip list)
your ATG M4A2 M3 Lee M10s Crusader III and such, and you'd have to go at it from a "We are taking this sucker out together" perspective
Not an "I am taking this out by myself" perspective.

76mm gunned M4's would show up in like mid T4, with the firefly possible making a slightly earlier entrance in early T4
or just mid as we are talking about only a month and a half difference, With the achilles also appearing in mid T4.
M36 following in late T4, Archer, etc.

I'd continue to make use of some kind localization mechanic to allow otherwise unbalancing units
to be able to exist in their proper place/time with proper numbers representation by preventing them from
having  an area of spread coverage that they were not capable of. Matty's Tiger Is, B1s, Tiger IIs, Pershing etc.

Beyond that, adapt and overcome ?

 

You all do that, Ill take my toys and go home. Bottom line.

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Merlin51
2 minutes ago, saffroli said:

IT. CAN. NOT.

FACT

It maybe, maybe might.
Will be very hard as the places it can possibly cause some damage are at the rear, and small, and heavy enough to need to be close.
And you need to pray the spall hits part of the fuel (cause the round wont go all the way in) otherwise you have an angry matty that still has one engine going, and he is going to make an example out of you 
:P

AAR wise, i take everything it tells me with a handful of salt.
Sometimes the game awards me stuff when i know darned well i did nothing fatal.
Shot truck in tire with ATR, broke 1 tire. (and the angle would have went out the back of the truck, so no change of other damage)
Some other guy blows truck up with a SPAA, AAR awards me a kill.

I'll take the kill, probably only one i'll get LoL

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goreblimey

I can definitely say I have had a Matty killed by a pak 36. 

1 CS version prior to ballistics audit 400m 30 degrees off to my rear left.

1 Normal version 300m 20 degrees to my left front post audit.

Those are the 2 that stick out for me but there have been others.

So FACT it can and does.

Im happy to admit the Mattilda is Fk awesome, but you rarely get a drive. Just so few around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by goreblimey
addition

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lipton

You can take your "Historical Baseline" and throw it in the trash. It means exactly squat-all when all the players aren't in the game. 

As has been said a million times before. The Allies are missing their biggest advantages during the war. The 8th Air Force and Artillery.

Artillery was as much a factor in winning the war for the Allies as anything else and it's not even in this game. So, I think it's a mistake to talk about Historical accuracy. History is irrelevant in this game. 

Edited by lipton

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goreblimey

If you follow Historical Lines you will never have a balanced game. Historical flavour, accurate equipment and Balance are needed. 

If we want true historical TOE why arent all axis infantry brigades given horse drawn equipment. 

 

 

 

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goreblimey
29 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

A B1 bis and Somua S35
I'd say a Laffly W15TCC but it isn't a tank

Really MERLIN i remember a thread where you specifically told me a S35 cannot penetrate a 3H frontally at all. 

It does sometimes if your close. At  1500m your talking one lucky round mate. 

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goreblimey
Just now, goreblimey said:

Really MERLIN i remember a thread where you specifically told me a S35 cannot penetrate a 3H frontally at all. 

It does sometimes if your close. At  1500m your talking one lucky round mate. 

 

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delems

idk, but some really weird stuff going on.

Pak 38, 200m, multiple shots, nothing, stuart drives away.

Few minutes ago, same thing, this time pak 36, at least 10 shots to the turret front mantle - killed them before there;  nothing, shoots, i'm dead he drives off.

The stuart was a light tank?   How can it take multiple AP shots at couple hundred meters and drive off uninjured from 50mm and 37mm rounds?
 

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goreblimey

There are problems like this ALL the time, both sides I assume. I have come to the conclusion this is connection related. Especially at close ranges seems weird.

But boy does it contribute to calls of cheating etc. Doesnt help the game at all.

 

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Merlin51
1 hour ago, goreblimey said:

Really MERLIN i remember a thread where you specifically told me a S35 cannot penetrate a 3H frontally at all. 

It does sometimes if your close. At  1500m your talking one lucky round mate. 

You said see and kill.
You did not specify where it had to be shot, or say direct frontally etc.

III H has a 30+30 hull face and rear
Turret is still 30mm but with a 37mm mantlet.
Not going through both of those at 1500m even with the MLE47

But you still have the non mantlet areas, the flanks, upper decking, etc.
it all depends on how and where both of you are sitting of course.
Can bust his gun too.

StuG B, depending on how well you can drop a round, HE is good, has an achilles heel.
In order to aim the gun, you have to open a hatch in the roof and deploy the periscope.
The gunners head is right there.

Other than that, it has 50 on the nose, 30 on sides and rear and not much on the deck
Its gun breaks, and it needs its tracks to work right.

Only things off hand (In he B1's tier) that i know i have gotten killed with in the face, in the B1 from long range are
FLAK36 and HEAT.
HEAT doesnt care about range, just that you point it at something fatal and dont have such a flakey angle that it glances off 
and the FLAK36, well if you can see it, you're probably too close :) 

Edited by merlin51

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goreblimey

You got the reply in before I edited to put frontally in. lol

 

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dropbear
3 hours ago, goreblimey said:

There are problems like this ALL the time, both sides I assume. I have come to the conclusion this is connection related. Especially at close ranges seems weird.

But boy does it contribute to calls of cheating etc. Doesnt help the game at all.

 

Does the database record that for some reason (connection based??) you are alive and from therein you are invulnerable?? We have all seen targets that SHOULD  be dead, from multiple  attackers.

Just wondering.

 

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raptor34

I for one support any attempts at making the TOE more historical. I play WW2OL because of its sim elements, not because I want a perfectly balanced game that looks like WW2. In a war game the challenge comes from the inbalance of the historical situation, it’s up to players to make it work. I’m not staying throw any sense of gameplay out the window but the game/sim should always move in the direction of ever greater realism. My thoughts anyways. 

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goreblimey

How can any TOE be historical, France does not exist after tier 0. French tier 1 equipment slated for production never exists and British tank / atg production is screwed because of defeat in June 40.

We are playing a fantasy game with historical equipment, balance , and a perception of fairness must be paramount.

Allied ground vehicles are never going to be the equivalents of the Axis glamorous uber toys. Unfortunately the game doesn't simulate the advantages the Allieds had, Logistical,production,intelligence,quantity ,mechanical reliabilityetc.

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Hardlead

  Axis ground vehicles are never going to be the equivalents of the Allied glamorous uber toys.

Thats my opinion.

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goreblimey
6 minutes ago, Hardlead said:

  Axis ground vehicles are never going to be the equivalents of the Allied glamorous uber toys.

Thats my opinion.

Name them ?

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goreblimey

Just so its fair ill start hey

 

Tiger, Tiger 2, Panther, Stug. Jpz4- l/7o., Jagd Panther, Jagd Tiger, Nashorn......

Allied equivalents  ?

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rotsechs
9 hours ago, goreblimey said:

 

Just cos allies have 8 Heavies per division that are difficult to deal with in T0, please stop spinning the myth that this superiority extends into T1.

 

I expect I am known as one of the Axis armoured players by both sides and I can assure you tier1 is still slightly Allied superior. 

Matilda and Char bis are killable but only by a few who really know what to do, in certain situations. A rookie in a Matilda will beat most average/good  Axis players in every Panzer/vehicle. 

And then there is the Stuart. Best tank gun at that point, that will pen everything at combat range. 

So to refer back to your first post, balance I would suggest is why the numbers are not exact. Some campaigns it goes Allied way and the numbers matter not 1 bit. 

 

 

 

Edited by rotsechs
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dre21
Quote

NAME ME AN ALLIED TANK THAT CAN SEE AND FRONTALLY  KILL A  3H or STUG at 1500m . 

I give ya that it wasn't 1500 meters but 1000 meters . 

Myself 3h on high ground, Allied player Stuart going down hill a bit , I have the drop on him at 1000 meters I shoot and hit him after the 3rd shot he finally finds me still fully functional and shoots back guess who lost his gunner after he hit me the 3rd time while he absorbs 5 plus more hits . If you guessed 3h you are correct. What I'm saying here is 1000 meters and 3h looses to the Stuart.

Other example I have for you ( it's not the 3h or Stug ) but Tiger over 1k I'm hull down behind a berm a Sherman and M10 on hill straight line of sight for me . Nail both of them none die but Sherman 76 takes gun out of Tiger .

Another good example I have is 4G vs M10 again high ground on my part M10 survives AP and HE rounds till he finally gets a shot on my turret and kills my gunner that encounter was at 1500 meters . 

Yes only one example is with the tank you have mentioned , but in all of these encounters I had the drop on them and I think you know that we BOTH know how to tank in this game . And not once did I win there.

All these were pre- audit  but these encounters are stuck in my head .

Kinda like the 4G vs M10 real close enounter let him go broadside nail him should have flamed but nope he manages to turn shoot kills my gunner that was an encounter at less the 100 meters . I think I nailed him 3 to 4 times 2 times engine twice turret . There was a time where I would not shoot at an M10 period cause it was so unreliable to know if you kill him or just said hey here I am shoot and kill me.

 

I think we all have these encounters in game . So it's real hard to specify what is truth and what is not , what mounts to lag ,packet loss or who knows what else.

I have also encounters where I left scratching my head and went like wow how did that happen , like getting a penetration shot on a S76 with pak36 from just off to the left and made his engine smoke , he did kill me . But it should have never penetrated only reason why shot at him was trying to distract him from camping a FMS.

Edited by dre21

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fufubear1f
8 hours ago, goreblimey said:

Just so its fair ill start hey

 

Tiger, Tiger 2, Panther, Stug. Jpz4- l/7o., Jagd Panther, Jagd Tiger, Nashorn......

Allied equivalents  ?

M10, Sherman 76, M36, pershing, Firefly, Achilles, and archer will all be able to work against tiger 1, Panther, Stug, jpz4, and jpanther (nashorn has basically no armor and could probably be killed by even a panhard 178).

 

M10 and sherman 76 can work even better when M93 shot gets added (assuming theres a way to prevent people from gaming supply of sub caliber rounds).

17pdr vehicles have enough penetration with their basic AP rounds to work against the tanks I listed at regular combat ranges.

90mm M3 is just about as good as the 88mm on the Tiger II so the Pershing and M36 should have no issue at all with nearly all German armor fielded during the war.

Sherman M4a3 76 has potential to even be the best tank to drive if it gets its stabilizer (it wasnt perfect for on the move shooting but it's still an edge no other tank would get).

 

Tiger II and JagdTiger are both vehicles that will clearly be better than allied equipment but ideally they should only be limited to a very few number of brigades.  In addition to that the cats in general should only be limited certain brigades and have less availability overall compared to other allied vehicles (especially the M10).

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lipton

Blah Blah Blah...

This is STILL the same old argument we were having 10 years ago. Nothing ever changes around here. 

Same complaints. Same whines. Same bugs. Same lack of need changes stay in game. Same lack of fun. 

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Mosizlak

If CRS goes ahead with this "hardcore timeline TO&E" stuff, say goodbye to the game. 

No SMGs for BEF during tier0? Really? Who, besides the Rats, thinks this is a good idea?  

You guys are on crack if you think this will fly...and if you apply this to equipment introduction times, you might as well pull the plug on the servers now. 

You can't go 100% historical if you want a game, that's just a cold hard fact.   

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