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goreblimey

TIER 1 armour BALANCE need looking at

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stankyus
6 hours ago, dre21 said:

Goreb  take the stats page with a heavy bag of salt please . I have been playing since 2001 and look at my stats , you are aware the old CRS lost a shiat load of stats when they played around and switched Stat pages. 

Even as we speak the stats are wonky killed 4 as a Sniper yesterday only 2 show up in stats page. The guy that I killed in Binche doesn't show at all . Was a lost soul green tag running around in town shooting his rifle off till I found him and put an end to the noise disturbance . How he got lost in that town is beyond me there was no AO on it and I figured I check the EWS out just to be sure.

I'm having stats that are not showing up either.  I have in my BEF sorties IIRC 5 sorties that show some kills but those I killed don't show up and after killing about 10 guys from a FMS I was cutting I got 3 kills listed instead. There are probably more I did have not noticed but I wanted to see who kept spawning from the FMS.

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Merlin51
2 hours ago, stankyus said:

T-2 only 6pdrs for the BEF

6 pdr kills the tiger,  (even frontally, if said tiger commander were to pay no attention to whats at his nose.)
So all i gotta do is keep his attention tied up while you maneuver something for a kill shot, so i get a couple guys and we get some expendable tin cans, and tie him up for you with a confusing game of shoot N scoot.

No, it isnt a solo affair, but a tiger really wasn't outside of ambush hunting.

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stankyus
23 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

6 pdr kills the tiger,  (even frontally, if said tiger commander were to pay no attention to whats at his nose.)
So all i gotta do is keep his attention tied up while you maneuver something for a kill shot, so i get a couple guys and we get some expendable tin cans, and tie him up for you with a confusing game of shoot N scoot.

No, it isnt a solo affair, but a tiger really wasn't outside of ambush hunting.

I had a dream once that I had a 17pdr on a hill and caught several tigers rolling to town I a column and I blew them all away. Right spot right moment.. Man I felt like a hero in that dream thinking about all the Axis tears.

That's how you present the solution.. its in your head as if its a dream. Its because that's the only place your solution can exist and keep the Allied pb happy or satisfied is in dreamland. Given the amount of allied players locking on to this idea and getting excited.. I mean our tanker corp has been growing by leaps and bounds after the Tiger/StugG parity decision how many ppl do you think we can sacrifice those tin cans to deal with the Tiger and the rest dealing with all the other threats like the 4G and StugG? 10 tankers? 30?

The 2pdr can kill the tiger if you are in the right spot at the right time at the right distance... however the 2pdr platforms get accredited to less than 10 tiger kills per map and that's probably way generous..

As for working out HOW to kill a tiger with 6pdrs and 75mm armed guns, its not like we don't ALREADY do that.. even with the M10 and S76 and they still get whipped.  

Now please enlighten us how to kill Tigers with Cru3s working together to set up a Tiger tank defending a town?  Sneak up to under 800m, bypassing all the RPATs, StugGs, 4Gs, soon to be 4Hs, Pak36s, Pak38s, Pak40s, PzHs, Soon to be 3Ls to 95% of all the towns that are probably 1k or less in size?  I am truly interested because its already extremely difficult with CH7s, M10s and S76s but at least we don't have to get under 800m.

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delems

*** Now please enlighten us how to kill Tigers with Cru3s working together to set up a Tiger tank defending a town?

Guessing the same way axis kills matties for the last 17 years for every tier 0..... ?
 

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goreblimey
9 minutes ago, delems said:

*** Now please enlighten us how to kill Tigers with Cru3s working together to set up a Tiger tank defending a town?

Guessing the same way axis kills matties for the last 17 years for every tier 0..... ?
 

Oh goody does that mean , allies are getting an Atg that can kill the tiger from twice the distance the Tiger can see it at?

 

Speaking of which, when will 6pndr and 17 pndr be given their historic 3x sights?

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Merlin51
7 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

Speaking of which, when will 6pndr and 17 pndr be given their historic 3x sights?

17 Pdr has a no51c mkI sighting scope, 3.0 magnification and 13 degrees FOV in game 

though if they came into game earlier (and had some kind of sub progression) they could start with a no41 1.9 magnification 21 degree FOV

 

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goreblimey

Nice try @merlin51 .

If thats the case then why does the 17lber have the same magnification as the 2lber ??

 

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jwilly
34 minutes ago, stankyus said:

That's because they are floating the idea and when there is opposition, they are defending it. You know good and well that they are moving to a historical time line or they would not be selling it.  We tried that back in the day and it was an epic fail for the tanking game that impacted the entire allied side so negatively, the allied side still has not recovered the squads or bench because of it. It was such a huge lesson safe guards where put into place. DOC even posted data on how bad it hurt the game in the forums to show us why he was limiting the Tiger numbers. So logic tells me, that even bringing up such a scenario with the lessons about how it effects this game as a knowledge base, this IS the direction they are heading.  Otherwise there is zero reason to get all our panties in a jumble.

Historical timeline could work, if it was history-as-it-would-have-been-without-Dunkirk-and-the-Armistice

The British would have 50:50 six pounder cruisers in T0.5; full six pounder towed AT in T0.5; full six pounder cruisers in T1; and six pounder infantry tanks for T1.5, as soon as the Valentine model is ready. The Germans correspondingly might skip the 50mm L/42 and go directly to the L/60, but not sooner than the various historical arrivals of the L/42. So, in T1, the British would have a considerable advantage. Then the Tiger, where available, would reverse the imbalance for T2.

The French would get B1(ter) and S40 in T1, and G1 in T2. As the only army in 1940 with a completed, contract-ready design for 75mm APCR and the raw materials and production capability to manufacture them, maybe the French would get that ordnance for the G1's 75mm in T2. I'd think they'd be able to hold their own in T1, and, assuming that the Germans would get Tigers at limited locations, also in T2.

Of course, maybe the intent instead would be continuation of historical-timeline-with-the historical-effects-of-the-British-and-French-being-defeated-in-1940. If so, then yeah, you're right, historical-timeline wouldn't work.

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Merlin51

hmm, yep my bad looks like it is the early 17pdr
so yea no 41 mkII 1.9mag 21deg fov is right for t3 inception
Is historically correct for when the gun comes into game

I hope at some point with sub tiers, we can have an item simply supersede and earlier version of itself 
when its a minor change, like a switch in optics

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goreblimey

Couldnt agree more @jwilly

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stankyus
48 minutes ago, jwilly said:

Historical timeline could work, if it was history-as-it-would-have-been-without-Dunkirk-and-the-Armistice

The British would have 50:50 six pounder cruisers in T0.5; full six pounder towed AT in T0.5; full six pounder cruisers in T1; and six pounder infantry tanks for T1.5, as soon as the Valentine model is ready. The Germans correspondingly might skip the 50mm L/42 and go directly to the L/60, but not sooner than the various historical arrivals of the L/42. So, in T1, the British would have a considerable advantage. Then the Tiger, where available, would reverse the imbalance for T2.

The French would get B1(ter) and S40 in T1, and G1 in T2. As the only army in 1940 with a completed, contract-ready design for 75mm APCR and the raw materials and production capability to manufacture them, maybe the French would get that ordnance for the G1's 75mm in T2. I'd think they'd be able to hold their own in T1, and, assuming that the Germans would get Tigers at limited locations, also in T2.

Of course, maybe the intent instead would be continuation of historical-timeline-with-the historical-effects-of-the-British-and-French-being-defeated-in-1940. If so, then yeah, you're right, historical-timeline wouldn't work.

I read your previous post and hit the like button.

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stankyus
50 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

hmm, yep my bad looks like it is the early 17pdr
so yea no 41 mkII 1.9mag 21deg fov is right for t3 inception
Is historically correct for when the gun comes into game

I hope at some point with sub tiers, we can have an item simply supersede and earlier version of itself 
when its a minor change, like a switch in optics

88 is using got upgraded to the pzgr39 ammo.... its in t0. Why not make the site allowance for the 17pdr?  Or are allowances not for the allies? You never answered the 17pdr ammo being its historic and most common ammo either.

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delems

*** Oh goody does that mean , allies are getting an Atg that can kill the tiger from twice the distance the Tiger can see it at?

Uh huh...  a whole 35 matties killed with 88 after over 2 weeks of playing.....  That is about 4% (7% by sorties) of the matties available over that time period; yep, 88 sure makes a difference.........

Why do you think it fine for the allies to have dominate armor, but for axis is not?
How about we try some map where there is no mattie tier 0, but axis gets Tiger tier 0 in mattie numbers?    Then you face what axis faces every map.

 

Oh, and wasn't the 88 using like 1934 or 1936 ammo?  It should get upgraded.  Was way behind the times.

Just like the Flak 30, a 1934 AA gun when the Flak 38 was accepted into service in 1939.......

 

Edited by delems

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DOC
9 hours ago, stankyus said:

That's because they are floating the idea and when there is opposition, they are defending it. You know good and well that they are moving to a historical time line or they would not be selling it.  We tried that back in the day and it was an epic fail for the tanking game that impacted the entire allied side so negatively, the allied side still has not recovered the squads or bench because of it. It was such a huge lesson safe guards where put into place. DOC even posted data on how bad it hurt the game in the forums to show us why he was limiting the Tiger numbers. So logic tells me, that even bringing up such a scenario with the lessons about how it effects this game as a knowledge base, this IS the direction they are heading.  Otherwise there is zero reason to get all our panties in a jumble.

But DOC doesn't know anything he killed the game remember ? ;)

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jwilly

CRS is baby-stepping back into development by adding models that are clones of existing models, but with parameter changes to make them perform like a different version.

Why not do that same thing for ammo-tiering? The 88 model in T0 would have PzGr AP. The 88 model in T1 and beyond would have PzGr 39, which historically was first fielded in 1941. Ditto with other weapons that were significantly upgraded after introduction.

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goreblimey
1 hour ago, delems said:

*** Oh goody does that mean , allies are getting an Atg that can kill the tiger from twice the distance the Tiger can see it at?

Uh huh...  a whole 35 matties killed with 88 after over 2 weeks of playing.....  That is about 4% (7% by sorties) of the matties available over that time period; yep, 88 sure makes a difference.........

Why do you think it fine for the allies to have dominate armor, but for axis is not?
How about we try some map where there is no mattie tier 0, but axis gets Tiger tier 0 in mattie numbers?    Then you face what axis faces every map.

 

Oh, and wasn't the 88 using like 1934 or 1936 ammo?  It should get upgraded.  Was way behind the times.

Just like the Flak 30, a 1934 AA gun when the Flak 38 was accepted into service in 1939.......

 

look at your Stug B stats , roughly same amount of missions , roughly same amount of tank kills , roughly same amount of deaths as the matty. Interesting hey.

How about you get the Tiger in only 3 Divisions in matty numbers :)

 

Edited by goreblimey

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delems

*** But DOC doesn't know anything he killed the game remember ?

howdy doc!  wb.

bah, i think doc knows stuff, but knowledge in of itself is neither good or bad, it's in its use.

btw, how is retirement? (if there)
 

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delems

*** look at your Stug B stats

Sure you want to go there?
I see same number of sorties roughly, but one has 1500 kills to 400, and a KD of almost 9 compared to 2.........

All I see is 1 mattie is equal to 4 StugBs.

 

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goreblimey
15 minutes ago, delems said:

*** look at your Stug B stats

Sure you want to go there?
I see same number of sorties roughly, but one has 1500 kills to 400, and a KD of almost 9 compared to 2.........

All I see is 1 mattie is equal to 4 StugBs.

 

I said tank kills, learn to read.

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HATCH
5 hours ago, jwilly said:

Historical timeline could work, if it was history-as-it-would-have-been-without-Dunkirk-and-the-Armistice.

Dunkirk doesn't exist in the game unless you guys make it happen. Exactly the kind of open minded thinking we are counting on from you guys. S!

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nugx
2 hours ago, HATCH said:

Dunkirk doesn't exist in the game unless you guys make it happen. Exactly the kind of open minded thinking we are counting on from you guys. S!

 

That's why I thought of a system for you guys that would have a pretty open minded 'historical' aproach, combined with a 'gamey' system for a video game.

The 'historical' discrepancies would be 'circumvented' by the players themselves - for example there could be a situation where 5 guys in matildas approaching a town would meet a tiger...... an unexpected situation, but it would create a situation where you on the fly have to come up with a new tactic.

 

rH0McIy.png

Edited by nugx

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Merlin51
3 minutes ago, nugx said:

there could be a situation where 5 guys in matildas approaching a town would meet a tiger

Not possible.
The tiger would fall asleep or die of old age before 5 matildas got that far.

If 5 matilda do come upon a tiger, their new tactic better be to remain silent, seek cover, and radio the tigers position and activities to others.
Because while the matilda might survive a few baddly angled hits from the tiger, it isnt going to survive square hits unless it's maybe 2km away
And it wont be able to outrun it, even if it is 2km away
And the only way its going to kill the tiger is if one of them can shove their gun up the tigers tail pipe.

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nugx
1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

Not possible.
The tiger would fall asleep or die of old age before 5 matildas got that far.

If 5 matilda do come upon a tiger, their new tactic better be to remain silent, seek cover, and radio the tigers position and activities to others.
Because while the matilda might survive a few baddly angled hits from the tiger, it isnt going to survive square hits unless it's maybe 2km away
And it wont be able to outrun it, even if it is 2km away
And the only way its going to kill the tiger is if one of them can shove their gun up the tigers tail pipe.

 

You have to take also the whole system in account at this moment Merlin - the players in 'matilda' would have it for free, while the player in the 'tiger' played a lot to get the points to purchase it, and he would have only a few uses of it.

At this point there is another factor - psychological, matildas don't have anything to lose, while the tiger player, a lot.

Edited by nugx

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Merlin51
8 minutes ago, nugx said:

psychological, matildas don't have anything to lose, while the tiger player, a lot.

from a 2pdr?
not much to lose there.
maybe if they got littlejohn adapters.

I'd be more worried in a tiger if a pack of Laffly W15TCC's came flying over a hill, those could actually hurt me

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nugx
1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

from a 2pdr?
not much to lose there.
maybe if they got littlejohn adapters.

I'd be more worried in a tiger if a pack of Laffly W15TCC's came flying over a hill, those could actually hurt me

I mean overall, a bomb from a plane or anti-armor inf weapon and the tiger player is back to the free pz3, while matildas wait to run into the town - combined arms ops,  inf-armor-air force, how it should be.

 

There would be plenty of other scenarios, ofcourse the 'higher tier' the earlier purchased the less of those tanks/planes there would be, meaning it would be a rare situation where players in the free tank, get stopped by someone - and if they do, call for help from air force - just like in real life.

'Pilots we need you to kill that 1 tank and we roll into town !!!'

Edited by nugx

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