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pbveteran

One of CRS priority should be building a new Vehicle and Damage Model

17 posts in this topic

Building a new vehicle, damage and ballistic model should be looked seriously by CRS and be given higher priority.

This would significantly reduces costs with the creator software and openflight proprietary format not only allowing to bring vehicles faster and cheaper ingame but making the way to also quickly transport this new system into Unreal.

This way any new WW2ol Vehicle would also be a new WW2ol 2.0 Vehicle in Unreal.

 

Warthunder model should be looked for great inspiration or nearly copied since it's superior in every way to that of WW2ol.

Edited by pbveteran

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Simply making the vehicle suspensions actually work instead if skating around on a 90% flat game environment and tipping over at a log/berm would be a great advance. I feel the collider system is very inferior to modern expectations and is at the core of many game issues. 

This would require major work on the game client though..I don't think the current rats have the resources. 

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I want to actually know where an enemy round is hitting. The other night a round is smacking a tree 100yds in front of me and I’m getting hit. So apparently the trees I’m hiding behind have no bearing on weather I get hit or not by tank rounds.

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Quote

I want to actually know where an enemy round is hitting. The other night a round is smacking a tree 100yds in front of me and I’m getting hit. So apparently the trees I’m hiding behind have no bearing on weather I get hit or not by tank rounds.

By design in order to keep the game's total data flow within economically-feasible and server-CPU-processing-technical limits...which were key determining factors in how many simultaneous players could be on the interaction list...the shooter client determines where he hits using high precision math then transmits that "where" information to the target. Meanwhile, the shot trajectory is sent to the target using low precision math, and the target does its own calculations of whether the shot intersected with obstacles or terrain. 

So, the round hitting the tree in front of you was your calculation, and was an approximation. The hit on you was the shooter client's calculation, and the one that matters.

That's not feasible to change without building a new game engine, I don't think. So, WWIIOL 2.0.

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16 hours ago, dropbear said:

Simply making the vehicle suspensions actually work instead if skating around on a 90% flat game environment and tipping over at a log/berm would be a great advance. I feel the collider system is very inferior to modern expectations and is at the core of many game issues. 

This would require major work on the game client though..I don't think the current rats have the resources. 

The environment is as flat as the polygon size in a given locale. Most of the texture and features you think are there are just non-collidable art. 

The polygon density in a given locale determines the maximum frame rate near there.

The collider system actually has a physics base, albeit simplified by the limited-detail world. "Modern expectations" are for a fake-physics system, which certainly can be made to run faster.

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On 10/1/2018 at 0:45 PM, pbveteran said:

Warthunder model should be looked for great inspiration or nearly copied since it's superior in every way to that of WW2ol.

I haven't heard of any engineers that consider any other simulation system to have the physics accuracy of the Open Flight modeling system's capabilities.

That's not to say that CRS's implementation of Open Flight was good. The parameter data was accumulated and inputted by individuals. Some of their original work was in need of fixing for years before finally addressed. Maybe other work has problems as well, not yet fixed. Maybe some of the parameter determinations were based on guesstimations rather than historical data.

How do you know the WarThunder modeling approach is "superior in every way to that of WW2ol"?

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2 hours ago, jwilly said:

 

How do you know the WarThunder modeling approach is "superior in every way to that of WW2ol"?

Ww2ol is only joule and fragment based approach , rounds are all AP , He isnt model correctly, there is no armor degradation , no internal round bouncing deflection, crew like commaders work like vehicles and not as a human character, no realtime or post match sortie playback, very inefficient performance wise, proprietary software that is very expensive and not is used in the videogame industry. The technical stuff like order of simulation you can see in  WT official website.

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2 hours ago, pbveteran said:

Ww2ol is only joule and fragment based approach , rounds are all AP , He isnt model correctly, there is no armor degradation , no internal round bouncing deflection, crew like commaders work like vehicles and not as a human character, no realtime or post match sortie playback, very inefficient performance wise, proprietary software that is very expensive and not is used in the videogame industry. The technical stuff like order of simulation you can see in  WT official website.

You are such a jolly fellow!

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6 hours ago, GrAnit said:

You are such a jolly fellow!

? Everything I'm saying is factual doesn't  the creator license cost 30k a year, so you would save a lot of money and have faster vehicle pipeline.

A tank and afv damage and ballistic model is around the complexity of town supply probably faster because it would be done from the ground up. While the aircraft vehicles would be post poned for later since it would be more complex the conversion and implementation.

Edited by pbveteran

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I played a lot WT and I dont understand why we keep to comparing WT with WW2OL.... I doubt very much that the model of ballistic and armor penetrations is more complex than this, not to mention the flight model that is as bad as this.

We only have AP modeled are you sure? I think we have APCBC and some other type of projectiles.

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On 10/2/2018 at 11:47 PM, pbveteran said:

Ww2ol is only joule and fragment based approach , rounds are all AP , He isnt model correctly, there is no armor degradation , no internal round bouncing deflection, crew like commaders work like vehicles and not as a human character, no realtime or post match sortie playback, very inefficient performance wise, proprietary software that is very expensive and not is used in the videogame industry. The technical stuff like order of simulation you can see in  WT official website.

All rounds are not AP, not even sure why you say that?
Joules = Energy, all rounds function off energy, even HE and concussive damage

There is no cumulative damage, that is true.
To do it properly is kind of hard, i've seen it in other places and did not like how it was done as one penetration hole basically removed
the entire plate instead of just the affected area.

There is internal round deflection, if it hits something capable of deflecting it, again i've no idea why you would say there is not?
Rounds bounce off stuff depending on angles and energy

Not sure what you mean about commanders?

No, there is no magic playback like WT has.
It is not like the game is incapable of it, it is very capable of it, but it is not terribly realistic. WWII soldiers did not have that level of feed back.
But the game itself is capable of telling you in extreme detail what just took place, just is not very realistic as well as it removes the other guys ability
to try to feign injury

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If the game engine is so good WHY do we continuously get those wtf moments when we hit say an enemy tank. You cannot be telling us that their is a connection issue for everyone of the countless scenarios we all see in in game.

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1 hour ago, dropbear said:

If the game engine is so good WHY do we continuously get those wtf moments when we hit say an enemy tank. You cannot be telling us that their is a connection issue for everyone of the countless scenarios we all see in in game.

The problem you describing is totally related to connection and lag issues and  it has a explanation:

If you are in Alpedrete, Spain and you are fighting against one from Henderson, Las Vegas, NV. It is likely that packets are lost or you see strange things, indeed those strange events are caused by lag and lost packets. Unlike other games that have servers and place their players based on their geographical situation, this game only has a server with people of diverse procendence and it is very normal that such failures occur. If throughout the whole world we would have optical fiber in each and every corner, it would not happen for sure.

I play from Spain, I have FTTH 300Mbps (Fiber to the home) I play hardwired, but I have a 140ms lag. In fact, I am affecting the other players with my lag. And if you are from the USA and you fight with me you will have the chance to see me fly and then you will tell me to use cheats etc. And that it also happens to us when fighting against USA players.

I recommend to read the yesterday @mingus post talking about those issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not that fixes every person and every event, but @mingus just fixed his horrible ongoing no hits killing anything problems
with a new cat7 cable

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1 hour ago, kase250 said:

If throughout the whole world we would have optical fiber in each and every corner, it would not happen for sure.

May i come to live in this world?
It sounds dreamy :) 

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7 hours ago, Merlin51 said:

1 - All rounds are not AP, not even sure why you say that?
2 - Joules = Energy, all rounds function off energy, even HE and concussive damage

3 - There is no cumulative damage, that is true.
To do it properly is kind of hard, i've seen it in other places and did not like how it was done as one penetration hole basically removed
the entire plate instead of just the affected area.

4 - There is internal round deflection, if it hits something capable of deflecting it, again i've no idea why you would say there is not?
Rounds bounce off stuff depending on angles and energy

5 - Not sure what you mean about commanders?

6 - No, there is no magic playback like WT has.
It is not like the game is incapable of it, it is very capable of it, but it is not terribly realistic. WWII soldiers did not have that level of feed back.
But the game itself is capable of telling you in extreme detail what just took place, just is not very realistic as well as it removes the other guys ability
to try to feign injury

1 - The game only models fragments no blast radius like warthunder, so PzGr 39 and all APHE round function at least to my knowledge, in generating extra spall or fragments to attempt to model the blast.

2 - Maybe you can confirm this but is WW2ol using real life joules measures and calculations? Because that would not seem very efficient since you would be using very large numbers to represent this energy, the problem with energy is that each component in the damage model has an energy threshold if this isn't hit, no effect will occur, again no damage degradation and I think it's too complex, I feel having a simple armor thickness equivalence and then damaging which each shot would be more efficient and transparent while also providing better results..

3 - I don't think it's hard might be hard to do it right but this wouldn't be the normal form of damaging and killing a unit, for me this would be more useful when you are for example shooting at smaller components like the rear of vehicle, the back or side of turret and not so much to the big areas in the front and side which are usually thicker as well. But even if you have a big polygon for a big area of the tank, you should be able to have a precise hitpoint if you relate the point of impact to the distance of each vertice of that polygon.. I don't know how efficient this would be maybe I have to do a prototype myself.

4 - Told to me by former Rats you have to quote someone saying otherwise, are you not confusing with the possibility of extra spall generation that can happen by each new component hit? I used to think it model that but it's just new fragments that get generated

5 - You can't use bones like you have with infantry so you can't animated and be able to exit and enter the tank, because they are part of tank object.

6 - Realism does not prevent in having a post sortie, segment that shows all the critical penetrations in your tank. To know what happen and help debugging. Also WT the damage model and armor is transparent you just go to the hangar and can see all values of the armor where the components are and the expected penetration.

@kase250

This model of ballistic and armor penetrations is more complex but less accurate and efficient and also not transparent pure black box no player knows the real armor values on tanks-

As I mention above AFAIK only fragments(each of this is like a round with AP properties) 

 

Edited by pbveteran

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