Zebbeee

Unveiling FMS location to both sides after a few minutes

23 posts in this topic

< Brainstorming >

Starting point is the role of FMS to become stronghold points outside towns and foster defense/attack activities. currently there is a major difficulty for players to find that kind of action and global communication isn't optimal (friendly/enemy icons not shared between missions).

What would you think of Letting FMS' and FRUs being automatically reported on map to both sides after 3 minutes in order to ease global battle activity focus ? (Eventually longer timer for underpop; shorter timer for overpop) 

So that global defense/attack coordination becomes easier but also necessary, similarly to town flags being visible to all on map and already generating that kind of spontaneous coordination.

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I agree with it and the only issue I would anticipate is a player with second account using info to grief (spy) on other sides fms's .

 All it takes is one .

Something is needed to show tanks and inf locations where they can despawn , and resupply without having to despawn.

 

Edited by tr6al

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20 minutes ago, tr6al said:

I agree with it and the only issue I would anticipate is a player with second account using info to grief (spy) on other sides fms's .

 All it takes is one .

Something is needed to show tanks and inf locations where they can despawn , and resupply without having to despawn.

 

The location would also be unveiled to the enemy side as well, so spying would no longer be an issue.

Defenders must prepare to catch the incoming flies.

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As far as i recall about my last fights around FMS, enemy's aircrafts was beating us into pre-stone age. I guess, now this isn't anymore a problem? Otherwise it would be not very good. 

That is why I suggested to discuss about anti-aircraft PPO for infantry.

 

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1 hour ago, Zebbeee said:

The location would also be unveiled to the enemy side as well, so spying would no longer be an issue.

Defenders must prepare to catch the incoming flies.

I don't like that idea one bit. Why drive a FMS into a good location and as stealthy as the game let's us when the system will show the FMS anyways to the enemy. 

A well positioned Tank and that FMS is useless, in tier 0 a Matilda and no one might as well spawn. I think the Aarschot thread in General discussion shows what happens when one side fails to take down a FMS.

If anything attacking FMS should be promoted on each side by a pop up window maybe that shows each FMS that is available,  but not on the map so spying is somewhat curbed.  But by simple here are FMS available that are on each attacking AO would you like to spawn from one please select one.

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Makes no sense. I don't follow the rationale for this at all.

Edited by xanthus

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I honestly do not like the stealth FMS. I'm a fan of heavy fighting between towns as a simulation of reinforcements and a battalion group moving mostly as one in one direction. The stealth FMS doesn't encourage the large group play that WWIIol thrives on. I think if you want to stealthy back-cap, you should make an infantry op with a few trucks, same as you'd do with a para drop. Otherwise FMS's should be like mini FOBs that are moderately defended with PPO's and heavy equipment.

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8 minutes ago, xanthus said:

Makes no sense. I don't follow the rationale for this at all.

The game dynamics seems much more intense and last longer when enemy FMS is marked, don't you think so?

We currently think about the use of stealth FMS' because no one think about grouping up and setting up a defense.  this is a design mistake IMO. If you know that your FMS will be announced after X minutes (simulating enemy's recon), mission leaders and players will change their way to use it. Hopefully in a more clever and fun way, I.e. see players regroup around these and coordinate towards ground control. 

About air attack, we can spawn AA and deploy multiple FMS' in the ZOC (easier to do as these are visible to all friendlies )

 

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My post wasnt an argument but if you take it that way so be it.

Its silly to show the enemy all your cards, this idea would, again as in another idea that was posted, eliminate any FOG of war, therefore eliminating any covert specops type missions, people like myself like that FOG of war it is a big part of the appeal to more than just me.

Maney ideas I have seen posted are good ideas as long as we keep pumping out good or not so good ideas, the RATS will think about things as well maybe use parts an pieces forming more ideas in there heads.

S!

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7 minutes ago, flong139 said:

Its silly to show the enemy all your cards, this idea would, again as in another idea that was posted, eliminate any FOG of war, therefore eliminating any covert specops type missions, people like myself like that FOG of war it is a big part of the appeal to more than just me.

Thanks for the development, it’s more clear for me. 

I agree with knucks that covered ops should be paradrop and hotdrop. Eventually consider back ML-placed FRU for rifles only.

we can still discuss the timer before the info is unveiled. 

eventually also limit the info to ground units only. 

Not saying this is a magical Idea that would solve all issues, as it should come along with other changes, e.g. new PPOs, improved terrain vegetation...

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The idea has merit in my opinion; I agree that FMS should represent moving the line of contact forward and be the focus of battle, not hiding them. Covert OPs should be small teams of infantry behind the lines or paras, with no or very limited spawning options. 

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Would be a disaster for axis.

Axis FMS ATGs take out very few allied tanks and allied air would bomb them out of existence in minutes.

Conversely, allied FMS ATG would destroy any ib panzer and axis air is to slow to interdict.

Though, interesting idea.

Far better to just 'see' all the FMSs on an AO, so you can click on one and spawn to it without 'searching' for the best MS to use.

 

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12 hours ago, raptor34 said:

The idea has merit in my opinion; I agree that FMS should represent moving the line of contact forward and be the focus of battle, not hiding them. Covert OPs should be small teams of infantry behind the lines or paras, with no or very limited spawning options. 

Doable once CRS figures out roles for the Paratrooper, besides suicide trips over an active AO or soft cap.

I have floated the IDEA to incorporate RR stations especially the big ones into the supply system . And even behind lines this can be taken by Paratroopers and Troopers only . And recaptured by the opposite Trooper side.  Bigger RR station make up a higher % of RDP .

That way it would not only be Bombers taking out factories but also Paratroopers influence the RDP war. 

A limited supply FMS for Troopers . Once set by the ML 10 more Troopers can be spawned before the pool is out. This would spur on behind the lines fights. And would also kinda simulate a larger Para drop if not enough players are available or online. 

The one side would get a notice that they lost a RR station and then decide leave it or take it back . The more RR stations you loose the more your RDP will be effected.

 

There is really no stealth FMS besides the old INF ML set one and that was a disaster, for the Armor game and should never ever be looked at again no matter if full spawn list or Rifle only list. 

We have Bridges and natural barriers in game for a reason.  

Only way I would maybe consider it , is a very limited Rifle only  supply , maybe 20 in the list simulating that a larger group made it over a river ( after all we don't have rafts in game) but the make the spawn point a Tent not a box . Soldier out of Tent good , Soldier out of a Box silly.

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IMHO, these FMS isn't meant to defend (even making an attack from FMS is a puzzle). This is a simple point to spawn, nothing more. Battle over such spawn isn't very good game mechanics. Now, if that FMS will be at least 30 metres long "trench" with needed embrasures, masking net, dugouts etc, then maybe. But then it will get lost its main purpose - attack the target.


And yet something. As here already mentioned, this will work against fog of war (how much of this fog are yet in game?). If we want to deliver some information to enemy (to made fights more intensive etc), then we needs to implement into game the scouts soldiers class (Reconnaissance units). Several times suggested by many in earlier years.

That will be logical way even by game mechanics, because you need to advertise so many features to newcomers that will show this game as unique from any others games. Also the game needs new players (and i suppose, many of them will prefer such risky job). 

Imagine, your side defend a city, around city and on fields running bloody battles and your small team must find, destroy or at least mark on map these eFMS. Of course, in current game is something such too, but why not strukturize it? Its own class, possibility to form a team, proper mission and target, maybe more advanced possibility to draw on map (with directions and time), also more quiet vehicles (thats why was suggested Citroen Traction Avant, motorcycles, even inflatable boats etc). Beside being more quiet, passengers will be capable to push them out of ditch and mud etc..

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4 hours ago, lemkeh said:

IMHO, these FMS isn't meant to defend (even making an attack from FMS is a puzzle). This is a simple point to spawn, nothing more. Battle over such spawn isn't very good game mechanics. Now, if that FMS will be at least 30 metres long "trench" with needed embrasures, masking net, dugouts etc, then maybe. But then it will get lost its main purpose - attack the target.

This is a very good point @lemkeh. In other words Should the spawn point (FMS) continue to endorse the role of being an objective by itself, or should it become distinct from a related capture/destroy objective (Somehow similarly to depots being separated from the flag building itself).

Which leads me to wonder if, instead, the trucks should build (non-spawnable) "objects" visible on map to all, defining a ZOC and  that would limit a radius around which trucks (and MLs) can/must deploy FMSs which would remain camouflaged (300m?)

Once it gets destroyed, either FMSs around closes or new ones cannot be setup (still requiring area clearing). FMS should then become easier to destroy though (by air and HE) but the ZOC object would need sappers.

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2 hours ago, GrAnit said:

Terrible idea.  Revealed in 3 minutes, camped in 4.

If you know that the enemy will be coming, I think players would be more likely to spend time setting up a real ZOC. Similarly to (captured) flag defense set up although this is unfortunately not a combined arms experience .

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3 hours ago, sorella said:

you mean like now? 

And that is why, because everybody can just pull up map and click Tent icon and place it. Take all the marks of the map and the game once again becomes a Fog of War . Where yes via voice coms /or text in game people still will get a update on an FMS or location of a Tank but it makes it so much harder. 

Some of us long time players can mark with such accuracy that we are literally only a few inches off if not dead on.

 

Now like it was mentioned above introduce the Scout class and he be the only one that can mark stuff for everybody to see on his side if you are in that town and Brigade he came out of and we got something going .

So in other words to have marks on map a scout needs to see it and report it otherwise Fog of War.

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5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

And that is why, because everybody can just pull up map and click Tent icon and place it. Take all the marks of the map and the game once again becomes a Fog of War . Where yes via voice coms /or text in game people still will get a update on an FMS or location of a Tank but it makes it so much harder. 

Some of us long time players can mark with such accuracy that we are literally only a few inches off if not dead on.

 

Now like it was mentioned above introduce the Scout class and he be the only one that can mark stuff for everybody to see on his side if you are in that town and Brigade he came out of and we got something going .

So in other words to have marks on map a scout needs to see it and report it otherwise Fog of War.

mmmmmmm It would be interesting to test. 

So hardcore maybe, but i like it.

 

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