kareca

K/D matilda tier x panzers

111 posts in this topic

anzer 38(t) 23   23 Oct 11 20:55 77,035 10,691 7.21
Panzer II C 23   23 Oct 11 19:30 48,254 2,080 23.2
Panzer III F 21   21 Oct 11 20:00 113,832 15,715 7.24
Panzer IV D 42 5 8.4 Oct 11 20:45 55,330 8,330 6.64
Sapper 64 40 1.6 Oct 11 20:35 114 97 1.18
SdKfz 232 23   23 Oct 11 20:00 39,242 2,436 16.11
SdKfz 7 Halftrack 3   3 Oct 10 22:05 11,070   11070
StuG III B 44 2

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Looks like about 20+ KD against panzers.

Too bad they didn't simulate radios and 1 man turrets in game.

 

Edited by delems

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Baby Tiger is a joke vs this in Tier 3 :popcorn:

 

Tier 0-1 tanking on german side is pain 

 

 

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Axis should have a limited amount of pak38 in their spawnpool. 

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1 hour ago, dre21 said:

Axis should have a limited amount of pak38 in their spawnpool. 

I would actually prefer pbveterans suggestion, a 50m ATG would be awesome.   .................:P                

On a serious note, I think the Pak38 in tier 0 is a good idea to counter the matty.

It is still very difficult to knock out a matty with a Pak38, but at least possible.

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I think the most logical step would be to get the CZ 47mm ATG in the game when the PzJr1 enters.  It is a Matilda killer and smaller than the pak38 and hopefully modelled without the scarecrow figures of the pak38 and 57mm atgs.  Those ATGs would be 2x as effective if ppl could not see the standing guys heads wobbling behind the bush lines.  The issue with the Pak38 in T-0 is not that big of a deal depending on how then you balance out the allied kit.  The French get exactly the same amount of 47mm ATGs as the Axis get 88s..  I was also hopping that if the Axis get some pak38s or 47mm atgs .. well the French would actually get a decent supply of 47mm atgs instead of 5-6.  I think as a stop gap some pak38s might work until some 47mm atgs enter but tbh, I think the 5cm only existed as gun tubes by 1940, not functional weapons.  IF we return to the real penetration and TO&E of the HEAT and 37mm.. you bet, I think the pak38 warrants a warp until the 47mm. 

There is another way to get some of the "weapons" in like the cz47mm ATG now.  We have a precedence of using gun data without the model in the game with the German SPAA.  I think the Mle37 reskinned grey and with Scotsmans data of the CZ47mm would work as a stand in.  You could even use another model for the US m3 until artwork is made so the US can actually have their light ATG in the game.  Just food for thought.

EDIT: I will say this, it seems that across the board the tank kills are pretty low in tank vrs tank. Was expecting to see more by this time.

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Just looked at the cz47mm gun and compared it to the French one and to be all honest not much of a difference.  

Smaller tires and a muzzle break on the cz47mm and a gray paint job and done . CRS should be able to handle to add  smaller wheels and a muzzle break onto the existing French 47mm gun and voila the CZ47MM is in game

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6 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Just looked at the cz47mm gun and compared it to the French one and to be all honest not much of a difference.  

Smaller tires and a muzzle break on the cz47mm and a gray paint job and done . CRS should be able to handle to add  smaller wheels and a muzzle break onto the existing French 47mm gun and voila the CZ47MM is in game

Well they look completely different do to the recoil mechanism - the CZ47 is very similar in size though and just a tad bit less penetration but very similar. Its not the best way to get something in the game and I don't prefer it, but if we are moving along with getting the actual gun data in the game and the pipeline is artwork/creator.. I don't see a limited use of reskinning like we did the bofors/37mm flak36 SPAA. That being said, the IMO the flak36 artwork should be a priority so the towable version can enter the game. Something depot spawnable better than the flak30.

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Today I shot 82 (APs) - 3H_  at the spot sapper matilda, and no kill... (250 -300m) ...

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21 minutes ago, kareca said:

Today I shot 82 (APs) - 3H_  at the spot sapper matilda, and no kill... (250 -300m) ...

Hmmm

 

 

Try a pak36 next time...

 

 

***runs***

 

That being said, IIRC Wednesday I watched a Matty have no less that 5 tanks shooting at him, 2 being 4Ds and a StugB.. the other two I don't know what they where from about 3-500m. They just pounded him.. I think one was Rohmu and the other Hamza. I know because they where reported over that area on chat killing off some of the armor. They died but even the closest 4D was taking many 2pdr hits from that range without dying, but the matty was smoking white after the conflict and double tracked.. I think a few minutes after the matty despawned and exploded.. it could have been a sapper but I did not see one or a charge go off. There had been some sappers over there, they had sapped another matty and A13 not 5 minutes earlier which is why I took up a post, so its possible because not all charges are seen and heard.

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Depends on engine dmg, you hit despawn Tank goes boom. 

Not all the time when an engine smokes does that happen with the despawn and explosion.  So it must be depending on what got dmged in the engine compartment. 

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3 hours ago, kareca said:

Today I shot 82 (APs) - 3H_  at the spot sapper matilda, and no kill... (250 -300m) ...

How does 1 shoot than many rounds, that close, and not get returned fire on?

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28 minutes ago, raven4 said:

How does 1 shoot than many rounds, that close, and not get returned fire on?

..returned, but matty CS i think... I go to FMS (near) for ressuply,  back that position..and atg killed me..

Edited by kareca

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The Germans had plenty of towed Czech 47mm guns. Only a minority of that gun type was SP via the PzJg I.

The Czech 47mm gun wasn't very similar to the French 47mm. It actually was most visually similar to the Belgian 47mm, quite a few of which were used on the Allied side. The Belgians also had a number of those guns on SP mounts, such as the T13.

My view is that, even when objects are not visually very similar, the most functionally similar existing model should be used as a stand-in until the modeling program can catch up.

So, the French 47 should be the stand-in for the towed Czech 47mm AT. just as the carriage and HT-mount Bofors should be the stand-in for the towed and SP FlaK 36 37mm AA.

Edited by jwilly

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Kinda agree, but they just going to substitute all these models in - then never get them right.

Maybe just do it right the first time?
 

The Sd Kfz 7/2 still needs a face lift, bofors gun is ugly :)

Where is the Flak 36/37 gun model?
 

PS And where is the later tier Flak 43 SPAA model?
 

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Quote

they just going to substitute all these models in - then never get them right.

Maybe just do it right the first time?

Perfection can prevent progress.

Quote

And where is the later tier Flak 43 SPAA model?

1944 basically isn't modeled yet. The FlaK 43 was first significantly fielded in 1944.

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Very difficult to hit the Matilda in the kill spot Kareca. I've done it but not many. 

The Matilda is easy to use in tier 0 and fairly easy in tier 1. They get kills against panzers because of fools that want to engage on sight and don't use teamwork. 

 

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11 hours ago, jwilly said:

The Germans had plenty of towed Czech 47mm guns. Only a minority of that gun type was SP via the PzJg I.

The Czech 47mm gun wasn't very similar to the French 47mm. It actually was most visually similar to the Belgian 47mm, quite a few of which were used on the Allied side. The Belgians also had a number of those guns on SP mounts, such as the T13.

My view is that, even when objects are not visually very similar, the most functionally similar existing model should be used as a stand-in until the modeling program can catch up.

So, the French 47 should be the stand-in for the towed Czech 47mm AT. just as the carriage and HT-mount Bofors should be the stand-in for the towed and SP FlaK 36 37mm AA.

Well then one of the guns I looked at must have been misslabled

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@stankyus

The Pzjr I is maby a fun anti Tankhunter, but ingame with real ei, he will lose and fail totaly.

If you play war thunder (They have atm on realistic the best  damage modell) you can see that the cz47mm gun make mostly zero or less damage on a Matilda.

Germany use in france the 8,8 sfl, its a 88 gun on a sdkz, this will be a much better idea to stop a Matilda OP in Tier 0-1.

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Historically, as far as is known, the SdKfz-with-88 first batch...the 1940 ones...got zero Matilda kills. 

That vehicle was ineffective for AT use or other low angle firing, i.e. infantry support. The recoil from the gun was so substantial compared to the width and height of the mounting platform that the HT was at risk of rolling over whenever the gun was fired to the side. In one case, a vehicle was destroyed rolling sideways down a hill after such an incident. Also, the recoil force was much greater than the vehicle frame was able to handle, and...even for forward or backward firing, if at low angle...frame breakage was common, resulting in vehicles putting themselves out of service. The SdKfz-with-88 was only useful for high altitude, high angle AA fire. Even for that use, it was inferior to a ground mount because there was no way to level the gun, so the tables of gun adjustment for range and altitude were useless.

The vehicle should have been developed with a reinforced frame and power jacks for stabilization and leveling, but it wasn't. 

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18 hours ago, stankyus said:

Hmmm

 

 

Try a pak36 next time...

 

 

***runs***

 

That being said, IIRC Wednesday I watched a Matty have no less that 5 tanks shooting at him, 2 being 4Ds and a StugB.. the other two I don't know what they where from about 3-500m. They just pounded him.. I think one was Rohmu and the other Hamza. I know because they where reported over that area on chat killing off some of the armor. They died but even the closest 4D was taking many 2pdr hits from that range without dying, but the matty was smoking white after the conflict and double tracked.. I think a few minutes after the matty despawned and exploded.. it could have been a sapper but I did not see one or a charge go off. There had been some sappers over there, they had sapped another matty and A13 not 5 minutes earlier which is why I took up a post, so its possible because not all charges are seen and heard.

I was the sapper, I am done trying to kill Matilda with Tanks. 

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@jwilly

Maby he kill historisch hero matilda, but they kill many Tanks and this truck was only and spezial use as a tankhunter. So i think so Bad was he not in this role.


“In den Jahren 1939/40 wurden bei Krupp auf Basis von Sd.Kfz. 8 (Fahrgestelle des Typs DB 9) etwa 25 Selbstfahrlafetten mit modifizierten 8,8-cm-Flak 18 zum Beschuss von Erdzielen gebaut. Diese wurden bei der 1. Kompanie der Panzerjäger-Abteilung 8 während des Frankreichfeldzuges eingesetzt.“

They was so good that they use it still later in war against russia again in a Rolle as tankhunter in the  in the Panzerjäger-Abteilung 559.

 

In all the german stuff i read i found only Information that they use it in a role for ground attack and no AA.

Van you send me a link where i found Information about that they use this as a mobile AA?  

 

In the original Wehrmacht Berichte from the “Panzerjäger-Abteilung 8 Abteilung 1“ you can read that they call again and again for more Sd.Kfz. 8 with 88 or newer weapons with better penetration.

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On 10/13/2018 at 0:19 PM, sajuk said:

“In den Jahren 1939/40 wurden bei Krupp auf Basis von Sd.Kfz. 8 (Fahrgestelle des Typs DB 9) etwa 25 Selbstfahrlafetten mit modifizierten 8,8-cm-Flak 18 zum Beschuss von Erdzielen gebaut. Diese wurden bei der 1. Kompanie der Panzerjäger-Abteilung 8 während des Frankreichfeldzuges eingesetzt.“

They was so good that they use it still later in war against russia again in a Rolle as tankhunter in the  in the Panzerjäger-Abteilung 559.

In all the german stuff i read i found only Information that they use it in a role for ground attack and no AA.

Van you send me a link where i found Information about that they use this as a mobile AA?  

Sure, as soon as I can get to it. I'm about to go on vacation for three weeks, but I'll look that up when I get a chance.

Quote

 

In the original Wehrmacht Berichte from the “Panzerjäger-Abteilung 8 Abteilung 1“ you can read that they call again and again for more Sd.Kfz. 8 with 88 or newer weapons with better penetration.

 

Yet the original 1940 batch...either 6 or 10, depending on source...was all of that design that were ever built, and the second design later in the war also was built in a single small batch and never again. That's even though the raw materials (88mm guns and medium-heavy halftracks) were each in regular production. Odd that such a weapon combination, seemingly so obvious and easy to build, wouldn't have been built in quantity--if it worked.

Here's the well-known photo of the first unit wrecked in 1940. It rolled over and down a hill when fired.

17279849461_d4073b3685_o_zpsog7o4tnn.jpg

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