kareca

K/D matilda tier x panzers

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We get this type of thread every year. 

The matilda is basically a non factor these days. 

Tier0 it runs over panzers. Tier1 is trots over panzers. Tier2+ it's basically a depot camping tank.

I'd be more worried about tiger numbers vs it's counterparts. Tier3 is a tiger fest, and I play Axis lol. 

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51 minutes ago, delems said:

I've never seen the Tiger KD as high as the mattie gets every map.

 

What's not shown is the Matilda K/D versus the StuG G, PzIV G, and the Tiger, chich are 0.06, 0.39, and 0/2, respectively. Once you get into late tier, the Matty stops mattering.

By the numbers I ripped just a bit ago, the Matty has 377 kills against German armor and 65 deaths to German armor this campaign, with "Last Faceoffs" a week or more ago for said armor. The Tiger has 672 kills against Allied armor and 178 deaths to Allied armor this campaign, and the only K/Ds below 2 that have deaths for the Tiger are the Churchill MkIII (1.83), Churchill Mk V CS (1, with 1 K/1 D, surprising), Churchill MkVII (0.92), Crusader Mk III (1.5), French M10 (0.8), and the French Sherm 76 (1.5).

So, you're technically right, but you fail to note that the Matty gets all of its kills front-loaded and then becomes useless, while the Tiger demolishes any competition with rare exceptions in perpetuity once the campaign goes on long enough. It's important to note that kind of thing because that's what the Allies are upset about specifically, and what you say doesn't acknowledge that and obfuscates the issue because you're arguing a different (and far simpler) issue.

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1 hour ago, delems said:

I've never seen the Tiger KD as high as the mattie gets every map.

 

But that domination ends...the tiger dominates until the end of the map...

 

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1 hour ago, xanthus said:

" the Tiger demolishes any competition with rare exceptions in perpetuity "

 

:rolleyes:

Don't know why you roll your eyes against the truth Xanthus.

 

 

42 minutes ago, xanthus said:

The Sherman 76 isn't that far behind the Tiger in terms of "dominating" the competition. It demolishes everything on Axis with the sole exception of the Tiger, and even then the 76 vs Tiger K/D isn't *that* lopsided in favor of the Tiger...

https://stats.wwiionline.com/weaponcomparison.php

Yes, both the American and the French 76s do well against everything except for the StuG III G (which it has advantage over, but 0.8 to 1 K/D isn't that much of a domination) and the Tiger, which the Tiger wins out over with a 2.06 aggregate K/D. It's an issue I've pointed out before, that the only thing the Axis has that can go toe-to-toe with the Sherm 76 is something that demolishes it and every other bit of Allied armor, but without it the Allies demolish everything the Axis has. It's not a good place to be for game balance because there are no good, clear solutions (keep it, Axis are imbalanced; remove it, Allies are imbalanced).

Relevant thread I'm referring to: http://forums.wwiionline.com/forums/topic/414137-allied-vs-axis-armor-kd-analysis/?page=1

On 9/14/2017 at 11:18 PM, chaoswzkd said:

It's only until the introduction of the Tiger, late into the game when high-caliber ATGs and AT Soldiers come into play, that the Axis truly shines in terms of Armored Warfare. However, while it's a similar flavor of Late-Game overpowered to the Matilda's Early-Game overpowered, there's nothing that comes after the Tiger that renders it too vulnerable to use. In that sense, the Allies cannot rely on tanks to counter it, unless they have superior map control (flanking) or superior numbers. It may very well be that Tigers are too strong, but they are also the only decent answer to the best Allied tanks, and may be the only thing remaining after the 4Gs and StuG 3Gs are taken out by 76mm Shermans, Wolverines, and Churchills.

Edited by chaoswzkd

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Axis have the 88mm which is the most powerful AT, and the Stuka. I wouldn't want a red Vs blue game so Tier0 is fine and has always be.

Allies need just something to counter the tiger.

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*** Axis have the 88mm

So what?  Terrible dispersion, requires 2 to use, slow, loud.

Meanwhile, the matties alone have over 2200 kills while the 88 has 300.....  Ya, right, 88 so good.

 

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LoL the Paper Tiger..

Watched 6 blow up in 15 min they never got a shot off and they tried to do it right, stand off, watch and listen..

Towed 88? Hehehe.. Whatever....

Aaaand the hapless StuH...  Wow so disappointed...

Pointless..

Cheers Monty

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Most tigers I see are rushing into town and get blown up. 

The tiger isn't as dominant as the matty in it's tier, but that tier the matty dominates in doesn't last. 

This map is the perfect example: Allies push east, tier 3 hits, the push stops and goes west very quickly. 

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1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

Most tigers I see are rushing into town and get blown up. 

The tiger isn't as dominant as the matty in it's tier, but that tier the matty dominates in doesn't last. 

This map is the perfect example: Allies push east, tier 3 hits, the push stops and goes west very quickly. 

The tiger problem is so obvious, a blind man could see it.  And yet @OHM refuses to change anything.  

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Just now, Capco said:

The tiger problem is so obvious, a blind man could see it.  And yet @OHM refuses to change anything.  

 

2 hours ago, chaoswzkd said:

It's not a good place to be for game balance because there are no good, clear solutions (keep it, Axis are imbalanced; remove it, Allies are imbalanced)

 

Exactly what do you want him to do that won't just break the game in new and interesting ways?

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46 minutes ago, Capco said:

The tiger problem is so obvious, a blind man could see it.  And yet @OHM refuses to change anything.  

I hear ya, bro. It obvious to people playing the other side. 

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23 hours ago, chaoswzkd said:

 

 

Exactly what do you want him to do that won't just break the game in new and interesting ways?

Lower.  Their.  Numbers.  

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I find it interesting that when the firefly is introduced, it's numbers will however be severely restricted. 

Why! 

The brits had over 3 x the numbers of 17 pounder armed vehicles, than total Tiger production, given the vast majority of Tigers were deployed in the east this would be more like 10x on the ETO.

 

Allies are lucky the vast amount of Tiger drivers don't use them properly.

 

TIGER numbers need reducing.

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On 11/2/2018 at 2:26 PM, stankyus said:

I have not used the Carcano in game so I cannot speak to it, but if its worse than the M1909.. I feel sorry for the Italian riflemen.

Closer ranges, probably wont see any downsides.
But those long range shots you like to make, 500m 600m, you'd see less lethality when you tag a guy in the leg or shoulder, which some times at those ranges that's what you get no matter how good you are.
You'd wound them, but might lack the energy to push them over the fatality threshold, since the round is small and lacks mass, it loses velocity over disance
quicker.
 

1 hour ago, goreblimey said:

I find it interesting that when the firefly is introduced, it's numbers will however be severely restricted. 

Why! 

Probably because currently, everything from tier 2.5 to tier 5 lands all in one single RDP of tier 3
So you get 1942 1/2 vehicles with with everything else from there to 1945, which makes post tier 2 a pain in the arse to balance out.
I imagine it will be a fairly big effort to get that set right and proper.

Edited by Merlin51
formatting went fubar

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I've honestly had no problem with Tigers playing Allied this campaign. Let the [censored]ers get into town and ram a few 57mms up their asses from depot. The Sherman M4A3 has absolutely no problem at typical combat distances at penetrating frontally (the British with the Churchill is a different story though, but I've had no problem taking them out again just through smart positioning.) The Tiger is slow as [censored]. It's got an extremely distinct engine sound that alerts everybody that it's coming and where to focus attention to. It's gun is extremely loud compared to the 76.2mm. Axis still get less Tigers than Shermans.

And to attribute the Westwards push to the Tiger is completely laughable. The Allied offensive was halted and turned around in Tier 2 before the Tiger was even introduced. The Allies have been falling apart not because of Tigers, but because of Allied saltiness, unwillingness to play as soon as the going gets a little bit tough, and because the Axis outplayed them and punished their mistakes. The answer to Tigers isn't to sit here and whine about them, it is to change tactics to counter them, just like the Allies in reality did. They're not invincible, and have some really obvious weaknesses (tank busters, infantry, being flanked.) Just stop treating them like every other tank in the game which Allied armour in most Tiers absolutely dominates.

Besides, everybody complains about the Tiger yet nobody complains about the STUG, which is way more numerous than the Tiger and HARDER to penetrate frontally. That makes absolutely zero sense to me rationally. And if somebody shouts back and says it's easier to flank than the Tiger, I'm going to slap a [censored] because the Tiger is just as vulnerable to Tier 3 Allied tanks with flanking shots as is the STUG lmao.

Edited by rule303
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The "solution" to the "Tiger problem" is to proceed to introduction of the Panther triad...I hope, Panther + M36B1 90mm + Firefly...after which the tanking game will be entirely a matter of who gets the first hit.

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3 hours ago, jwilly said:

The "solution" to the "Tiger problem" is to proceed to introduction of the Panther triad...I hope, Panther + M36B1 90mm + Firefly...after which the tanking game will be entirely a matter of who gets the first hit.

The solution was to never have created the problem in the first place when they raised the Tiger numbers.  The T3 armor lists were perfectly balanced before that change.  There were zero complaints about it.  

 

Then all of a sudden the Tiger turret speed gets jacked to a non-historical rate and their numbers double (or more in the case of armor flags/HQs).  It was a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  

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3 hours ago, jwilly said:

The "solution" to the "Tiger problem" is to proceed to introduction of the Panther triad...I hope, Panther + M36B1 90mm + Firefly...after which the tanking game will be entirely a matter of who gets the first hit.

Will #soon come soon enough though?

 

that is the question 

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On 11/3/2018 at 3:26 PM, delems said:

*** Axis have the 88mm

So what?  Terrible dispersion, requires 2 to use, slow, loud.

Meanwhile, the matties alone have over 2200 kills while the 88 has 300.....  Ya, right, 88 so good.

 

I wonder how much the 88 kills have decreased since CRS took trucks away from f2p accounts. I suspect quite a bit. Problem of our own making i guess ...

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15 hours ago, Silky said:

Will #soon come soon enough though?

 

that is the question 

Yes agree. I am starting to wonder that myself.

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2 hours ago, choad said:

I wonder how much the 88 kills have decreased since CRS took trucks away from f2p accounts. I suspect quite a bit. Problem of our own making i guess ...

I don't even know why F2P can't have trucks. Sure, I can understand no FMS/ML, but no trucks period? Like what? They only just provide support to move infantry or ATGs...

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20 hours ago, Capco said:

Then all of a sudden the Tiger turret speed gets jacked to a non-historical rate

Why does this keep being said?
If you go spawn a tiger and measure its rate of rotation for a full 360 degrees you will see it is much slower that it was fully capable of in real life.
It is capable of rotating faster.

You have 2 choices with the tiger since NO VEHICLE can equate its rotation to its engine state.
1) Pick a medium rate which is neither minimum nor maximum
or
2) Set it to manual rotation in which case the guy will be spending 15 minutes trying to point the gun, depending on which set of cranks he is using.

And to add to that.
Matilda II's have no powered rotation without the donkey running.
Spawn a Matty and move to gunner, Do you hear the donkey running?
No, it is not, it is not even present, yet the turret moves.

French tanks need the engine running to spin the dyno to power the turret ring motor
but ours do not.

Shermans run the hydropack eternally on limited battery power.

Etc.
Everyone is getting a free pass on auxillary power requirements on some unit or another.


 

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