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Drunken rifle (weapon) sway

20 posts in this topic

It has to go..

I can understand some sway when you're standing or kneeling, but when you're prone there should be almost none.  When you're prone you're laying on the ground, your weapon is supported by your elbows which are on the ground, it's pulled into your shoulder and your body is on the ground.    Perhaps if I was just sprinting and I've dropped to the ground and I'm heaving because you're simulating I'm out of breath my breathing may transfer some sway to my shoulder, but if I'm resting, prone, not tired, the sway should be nearly non-existent.

As far as for standing and kneeling it is WAY to EXCESSIVE.   I don't know if anyone at CRS has ever fired a weapon but you would have to be very drunk, very ill or very weak to sway around like is modeled in this game.

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Agreed. It is really annoying trying to aim when your prone and having to waiting for the "perfect moment" to shoot during the sway.

I would leave the sway on when standing, crouching, hurt or stamina bar not full.

When your prone and stamina bar full, let aiming steady. This is already true for the lmg's.

S!

Edited by mazzoni85

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Games are very simplified compared to real life combat. In order to get to an overall-realistic-feeling degree-of-difficulty and learned-skills requirement, some of the few parameters that the game developers can control are over-emphasized.

Other players have adapted to it, via their own combination of skills and learning.

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2 hours ago, jwilly said:

Games are very simplified compared to real life combat. In order to get to an overall-realistic-feeling degree-of-difficulty and learned-skills requirement, some of the few parameters that the game developers can control are over-emphasized.

Other players have adapted to it, via their own combination of skills and learning.

Being a simulation.......

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I'm going to have it as a guess that somebody here hasn't been shooting before. The sway is VERY realistic given how much physical activity (running and sprinting and diving) that you do as an infantryman in this game, combined with the adrenaline you will have, and the fact that you are using iron sights that require multiple points of reference to line up exactly at the same time, unlike with say modern red dots and combat optics.

And yes, being prone whilst does reduce your sway and improve your accuracy, also makes a rifle bolt harder to cycle and increases recoil, but you don't see that happen either do you?

10 hours ago, mazzoni85 said:

Agreed. It is really annoying trying to aim when your prone and having to waiting for the "perfect moment" to shoot during the sway.

But that's exactly what shooting a bolt action or even a high powered semi automatic rifle is like. It's not like an assault rifle where good enough is acceptable, because you get extremely fast follow up shots. With a bolt action, every new shot IS a new shot due to the manipulation of the bolt and/or the recoil throwing off sight picture, meaning you have to reacquire the target and go through the process all over again. Keep in mind also that marksmanship training in WW2 was minimal at best. Soldiers may only train for a month or two with one or two shoots during that training period before they were off to the frontline. Most recreational shooters of today would easily be able to outshoot WW2 era standards of marksmanship or proficiency.

Edited by rule303
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12 minutes ago, rule303 said:

Most recreational shooters of today would easily be able to outshoot WW2 era standards of marksmanship or proficiency.

I'd say that would be true 65 years ago as well.

They aren't hot sweaty dirty, or cold and wet, tired and hungry, scared to death with their nerves on the edge from a constant state of high alert
missing home, wondering if they are going to die, pulse pounding in their ears from fear and exertion, and time is not running in strange flip flopping bursts of high speed and slow motion all at the same time.

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39 minutes ago, Merlin51 said:

I'd say that would be true 65 years ago as well.

They aren't hot sweaty dirty, or cold and wet, tired and hungry, scared to death with their nerves on the edge from a constant state of high alert
missing home, wondering if they are going to die, pulse pounding in their ears from fear and exertion, and time is not running in strange flip flopping bursts of high speed and slow motion all at the same time.

Just look at the Germans and marksmanship training during the wars lol. You basically took 5 shots and got to pick the best of 3 in the slightly wider than normal torso width black at 200 or sometimes 100 yards depending on the year and desperation for manpower and you were good to go. If you watch the video from about 49:12 onwards they start delving into this. They didn't give two craps about how good a shooter you were as a rifleman, what they really cared about is how many ammo tins can you carry around for the MG34 or MG42 which was expected to do all the fighting and killing.
 

 

Edited by rule303

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I have shot many weapons from Revolutionary war replica long rifles to modern rifles, I was on an Aggressor Team when I was in the Air Force that was tasked as being the "Red Team" that attacked other units during exercises which was physically demanding and we prided ourselves on our the execution and viciousness of our attacks (we were often considerably outnumbered).  I have been under fire in real life, I do not have a DRUNKEN RIFLE SWAY.  

There is a way to reduce this in the game. 

Go and find it.

Yes I know many of you use "Aimbot" and then brag about your prowess.

I have been shooting before I can put three rounds in the same ring with open sights at 300 yards and with a scope you could put a dime down and touch all three holes in the target at 300 yards.   30-06, M1Garand, 30.30, .308,  I placed third at Clark AB in like 1986 or 1987 with a .38 Pistol two OSI Officers with 9mm Pistols shot better than I did.

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I am also a professional shooter and can achieve similar feats and did many shooting competitions here in Australia and I'm telling you that you are not coming from the perspective of a Second World War Era shooter. They were very poorly trained in marksmanship compared to modern standards and did maybe only one or two shoots and went through very little ammunition before being sent to the front. Their rifles had horrific mechanical accuracy (4-6 MOA was considered acceptable for issue.) They were getting fouled up with the elements (WW2 era rifles aren't as good at keeping the elements out of the action as say any M16A2 onwards) and were going through much more horrific battlefield conditions than more modern combat operations tend to do.

Trust me, the accuracy and sway and performance and training all makes sense for rifles. Even then, I have absolutely no problem with accurate iron sighted rifle shooting out to 400m+ with the sway anyway in this game because I've had plenty of practice and mostly used to play infantry in game over the past 8 years - seems to me just your bad aim is the issue here. The sway and accuracy makes perfect sense in historical context. You try and be a marksman on the battlefield if prior to combat your only experience shooting was maybe 30-40 rounds fired at most.

Edited by rule303
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5 hours ago, rule303 said:

I am also a professional shooter and can achieve similar feats and did many shooting competitions here in Australia and I'm telling you that you are not coming from the perspective of a Second World War Era shooter. They were very poorly trained in marksmanship compared to modern standards and did maybe only one or two shoots and went through very little ammunition before being sent to the front. Their rifles had horrific mechanical accuracy (4-6 MOA was considered acceptable for issue.) They were getting fouled up with the elements (WW2 era rifles aren't as good at keeping the elements out of the action as say any M16A2 onwards) and were going through much more horrific battlefield conditions than more modern combat operations tend to do.

Trust me, the accuracy and sway and performance and training all makes sense for rifles. Even then, I have absolutely no problem with accurate iron sighted rifle shooting out to 400m+ with the sway anyway in this game because I've had plenty of practice and mostly used to play infantry in game over the past 8 years - seems to me just your bad aim is the issue here. The sway and accuracy makes perfect sense in historical context. You try and be a marksman on the battlefield if prior to combat your only experience shooting was maybe 30-40 rounds fired at most.

I hear what you are saying, I can't argue to much. However I do have some perspective disagreements. The 1940 US shooter often had years of shooting prior to entering the service. My grandfathers, from two different social economic backgrounds both could drop deer at 300-400 yards by the age of 14 and 16 years of age. My pops dad (working poor) ranked 14th out of his his company (?) basic training... but got medically removed and spent the rest of the war building planes with Boeing. My mothers father (upper middle class) joined the navy in intelligence and latter the CIA, however his shooting skills were average. 100% of his class were vets. See, he could pop deer at 400 yards at 16. Both were shooters by today's standards but average during his day. My aunts father was a real shooter, lost his thumb in combat but even with out his thumb, I personally watched him nail 6 out of 8 two litter soda bottles at 100 yards in about 15 seconds with a ww2 era m1 he bought in 1949 through a government WPA (?) program and had till his death in 1992. He had a 30 cal carbine also, my cuz now has it.

 

 He would also like to point out that the Lee Enfield mk 4 was exceptional with accuracy and the M1D was still the marine sniper riffle into the mid to late 60s- ww2 designs. 

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Americans are a rare exception, as the USA had a strong gun culture that the European powers did not share. The American military also had an obsession with precision marksmanship over practical battlefield performance, especially the USMC. However, the mechanical accuracy of the M1 and the No. 4 are for all practical purposes the same, and the M1D did not have any improvements in terms of mechanical accuracy of the other rifles of the era before better production techniques came into place. What made the M1 Garand and No. 4 so easy to shoot accurately was not the gun itself being more accurate, but the sights being much easier to acquire and line up thanks to them using aperture sights.

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10 hours ago, rotsechs said:

Aimbot? No. That is a cheat. 

There is something in the game that reduces sway. 

 

That's cheating. Hopefully the Rats are aware and fix this.

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I can understand the frustration felt by many regarding the rifle sway.  Especially given that even the 'perfect shot timing' ends up in a miss on a regular basis due to lag, etc.

 

Shooting in this game has required me to check my pride at the door, and focus on overcoming the challenges involved.  It isn't easy to do, and there are times when I want to throw my pc across the room.  Having said all of that, to me it is the closest game to shooting at live targets that I've found.  Other games like Sniper Elite and the Call of Duty games, gives me the feeling of almost being 'god-like' with a weapon, but once you accept the variables (controlled by the players involved and those unable to be controlled) I find it quite more satisfying to score a hit on an EI in wwiionline than in any other game.

 

And on the plus side, wwiionline doesn't suffer from having to watch one's targets jump up and down while being shot at, which I greatly appreciate.

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Weapon sway starts minimal then get stronger the longer you aim. You hear the breath that simulates focus.

I asked for that feature 15 years back to increase Life expectancy of infantries, and I still like it’s effect.

I am however still less comfortable with the magnitude of the aim focus.

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On 11/9/2018 at 4:23 AM, Zebbeee said:

Weapon sway starts minimal then get stronger the longer you aim. You hear the breath that simulates focus..

And these affects should be almost non-existent in prone position, you are resting your elbows on the ground, you are resting, and you have the weapon pulled against your shoulder.  I could understand if you had SPRINTED and then dropped to the ground. Then the effect should be present until you are rested.  BUT IF YOU ARE LYING PRONE, LIKE SNIPERS DO, then there should be almost NO SWAY EVER!

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The sway effect is normally already less important when laying compared to standing/prone positions, but I'll pay attention next time I log in 

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