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major0noob

"generating activity" game philosophy/attitude, can it be directed to the FMS

135 posts in this topic

i know i'm a broken record at this point but i honestly love the game, enough to stay updated and keep my account active for 3 years (i know most of you have played longer, not trying to challenge or boast).

 

on to the point

trying to increase population with things like: new units, steam release, WBS's

curbing bottlenecks: auto-AO's when there's no HC, strengthening the FB, lowering SD, supply managment

 

it's clear the devs want to make activity in game, i've argued the ability to build spawns is a bottleneck. i agree the FMS as a part of the game is better than FRU, but the ability to make them is the problem factor.

not the skill, or the fact that anyone can spawn a truck and make one.

 

the challenge in making them in a populated game environment

when compared to the ease of truck hunting and camping built FMS's

 

i know ZoC's, my argument is ZoC's work both ways: FMS hunting and camping needs less playerbase effort than making them and keeping them up.

 

 

can the philosophy of generating gameplay please be addressed at the imbalance between these ZoC efforts

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I agree with you, the FMS is better than what we had but it's certainly not perfect.

It would be good to brainstorm some ideas about how it could be re-worked.

I remember talk about daisy-chaining a string of FMS's from the FB to the town, if the forward most FMS was over run (maybe an area capture rather than blowing it up) then that FMS would close and the next one in the string would open.

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I have plenty ideas for that aspect of the game.

 

1. Let a truck set more then 1 FMS  up to 3 I would say.( 1enemy engineer can't stop an attack that way , also depending how you set the FMS they can cover each other and makes camping a lot harder)  3 ML could set 9 FMS on 1 AO alone . On spawn in you are given an option of you spawn points ( map pops up and shows you want to spawn A-B or C that way you can decide, but then there is always the spy factor and we just leave it as choose spawn point A-B or C without one knowing the location before one spawns in , worst case you have to respawn  and choose the next FMS if you don't like where you spawned in.

 

2. Minor redesign of FMS put the Nation's flag on the inside and give the Engineer the capabilities of building fake FMS . ( looks like an FMS but is not a spawn point , that's why the flag needs to be on the inside enemy has to go and give positive ID . FMS will also be hard to spot from the air that way)

 

3. Give Para ML the ability to set an FMS , you can drop over the river set FMS ( CRS needs to introduce the ParaEngineer) this FMS has ATG and AAA spawn capabilities and a limited Para Unit pool simulating a bigger Para drop) Once that pool is exhausted or destroyed a new unit needs to be flown in andL needs to set a new FMS. ( would encourage Teamwork between ground units The Airwing of the game and the Paratroopers. No fighter cover the success drops to low level of success.

 

4.Maybe have/give a group of 5 Engineers the ability to set a secondary Mobil FB that players can spawn from ( needs to be 5 to encourage team play) 

They can be driven to any spot of the map and then need to build a Mobil FB ( lets say 10 min build time) after that it becomes a secondary spawn point for that side. So when the 1st FB gets taken down there is still the back up FB that is active. 

5. More PPO options, like instead of only setting one Tank barrier let the Engineer set a cluster of 3  like this - X  X  X  cover more ground that way , I think people would build more then . Also introduce razor wire to court of an area , no INF can go through it unless it gets cut or blown up . Trench build ( I know that's not possible as of now ) but it would also keep tanks at bay. 

If I think of other ideas I'll add them .

S!

Edited by dre21
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I have plenty ideas for that aspect of the game.

 

1. Let a truck set more then 1 FMS  up to 3 I would say.( 1enemy engineer can't stop an attack that way , also depending how you set the FMS they can cover each other and makes camping a lot harder)  3 ML could set 9 FMS on 1 AO alone . On spawn in you are given an option of you spawn points ( map pops up and shows you want to spawn A-B or C that way you can decide, but then there is always the spy factor and we just leave it as choose spawn point A-B or C without one knowing the location before one spawns in , worst case you have to respawn  and choose the next FMS if you don't like where you spawned in.

 

2. Minor redesign of FMS put the Nation's flag on the inside and give the Engineer the capabilities of building fake FMS . ( looks like an FMS but is not a spawn point , that's why the flag needs to be on the inside enemy has to go and give positive ID . FMS will also be hard to spot from the air that way)

 

3. Give Para ML the ability to set an FMS , you can drop over the river set FMS ( CRS needs to introduce the ParaEngineer) this FMS has ATG and AAA spawn capabilities and a limited Para Unit pool simulating a bigger Para drop) Once that pool is exhausted or destroyed a new unit needs to be flown in andL needs to set a new FMS. ( would encourage Teamwork between ground units The Airwing of the game and the Paratroopers. No fighter cover the success drops to low level of success.

 

4.Maybe have/give a group of 5 Engineers the ability to set a secondary Mobil FB that players can spawn from ( needs to be 5 to encourage team play) 

They can be driven to any spot of the map and then need to build a Mobil FB ( lets say 10 min build time) after that it becomes a secondary spawn point for that side. So when the 1st FB gets taken down there is still the back up FB that is a

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i'm surprised lowering truck audio still hasn't been addressed.

AFAIK it's been more popular than shorter EWS, faster build times and everything else tied to the FMS

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26 minutes ago, dre21 said:

I have plenty ideas for that aspect of the game.

 

1. Let a truck set more then 1 FMS  up to 3 I would say.( 1enemy engineer can't stop an attack that way , also depending how you set the FMS they can cover each other and makes camping a lot harder)  3 ML could set 9 FMS on 1 AO alone . On spawn in you are given an option of you spawn points ( map pops up and shows you want to spawn A-B or C that way you can decide, but then there is always the spy factor and we just leave it as choose spawn point A-B or C without one knowing the location before one spawns in , worst case you have to respawn  and choose the next FMS if you don't like where you spawned in.

 

2. Minor redesign of FMS put the Nation's flag on the inside and give the Engineer the capabilities of building fake FMS . ( looks like an FMS but is not a spawn point , that's why the flag needs to be on the inside enemy has to go and give positive ID . FMS will also be hard to spot from the air that way)

 

3. Give Para ML the ability to set an FMS , you can drop over the river set FMS ( CRS needs to introduce the ParaEngineer) this FMS has ATG and AAA spawn capabilities and a limited Para Unit pool simulating a bigger Para drop) Once that pool is exhausted or destroyed a new unit needs to be flown in andL needs to set a new FMS. ( would encourage Teamwork between ground units The Airwing of the game and the Paratroopers. No fighter cover the success drops to low level of success.

 

4.Maybe have/give a group of 5 Engineers the ability to set a secondary Mobil FB that players can spawn from ( needs to be 5 to encourage team play) 

They can be driven to any spot of the map and then need to build a Mobil FB ( lets say 10 min build time) after that it becomes a secondary spawn point for that side. So when the 1st FB gets taken down there is still the back up FB that is a

+10 // great ideas. someone also mentioned somewhere the idea of Paras for both side having a slightly faster cap timer to encourage more para drops.  not too realistic but new players (as we all did) love para drops. 

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<brainstorming>

1. Bring Manned MSP back and let them Spawn the Heavier units (inf and guns) as close as 150m of enemy facility

2. Respawn FRU = set by feet by ML but only to RESPAWN all those despawing/dying in a radius of X meters. In town there should be no minimum distance to enemy cp IF deployed inside an owned depot => team cohesion

3. Let trucks Spawn from FMS but increase its min distance to 800m => truck rides and easier ZOC move

4. Fire team defensive FRU, placed by feet by the ML, limited to a few Amount of rifles and limited to defensive missions within X meters of origin

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Say what you want to say but F2P have to be able to spawn a truck.

CRS is indirectly losing money because of this less FMS mean less players in an AO, more camping of single missions FMS..

 

I believe if CRS can't push more for more active players the game future of the game will always be in question.. I think a point/credit system so that your gameplay rewards you with currency that you can then unlock premium units is the only way to fix the population once and for all.

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OR we could get rid of the fms and go back to trucking people in or walking 5 km.

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3 hours ago, sorella said:

+10 // great ideas. someone also mentioned somewhere the idea of Paras for both side having a slightly faster cap timer to encourage more para drops.  not too realistic but new players (as we all did) love para drops. 

I brought that idea up here and there, my thought process is Para units are an elite group , and with an elite group should come some sort of benefit. 

As we have now they drop over an Active AO or a soft cap . Over an Active AO the benefit should be a faster cap timer. They hang in the air , with the hopes of landing alive , usually people know exactly where they land , so once on the ground if not dead within seconds they should get that little bonus once in a CP.

BTW sorry for my double post , phone had a hick up and I'm just glad I didn't have to retype it all over again.

3 hours ago, sorella said:

 

 

Edited by dre21

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10 hours ago, waldojr said:

OR we could get rid of the fms and go back to trucking people in or walking 5 km.

people are already doing this from a lack of spawns. i'm not trying to joke around or exaggerate, people are walking from the FMS or town to the AO. call them inexperienced if you want but it's happening and it's the main part of the gameplay of WW2:OL without spawns.

 

 

 

the shortage of spawns also increase the number of defenders: people spawn to DO's cause AO's are dead

while i was playing it was a daily spiral to no-pop

 

spawn at DO, kill trucks or camp FMS's (we only needed 1/2 their numbers to achieve this, but had even pop at worst) <<<<<<<<<< this is the issue I've been trying to address

enemy pop moves to their DO, kill our trucks or camp our FMS's

stalemate, 2-4 inactive AO's/DO's people log

 

HC tries again - same thing

again - same

finally, one side gets soo bored nobody defends and we softcap full supply towns

or: a small scale "battle" of 10 vs 10

Edited by major0noob

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12 hours ago, dre21 said:

I have plenty ideas for that aspect of the game.

 

1. Let a truck set more then 1 FMS  up to 3 I would say.( 1enemy engineer can't stop an attack that way , also depending how you set the FMS they can cover each other and makes camping a lot harder)  3 ML could set 9 FMS on 1 AO alone . On spawn in you are given an option of you spawn points ( map pops up and shows you want to spawn A-B or C that way you can decide, but then there is always the spy factor and we just leave it as choose spawn point A-B or C without one knowing the location before one spawns in , worst case you have to respawn  and choose the next FMS if you don't like where you spawned in.

 

2. Minor redesign of FMS put the Nation's flag on the inside and give the Engineer the capabilities of building fake FMS . ( looks like an FMS but is not a spawn point , that's why the flag needs to be on the inside enemy has to go and give positive ID . FMS will also be hard to spot from the air that way)

 

3. Give Para ML the ability to set an FMS , you can drop over the river set FMS ( CRS needs to introduce the ParaEngineer) this FMS has ATG and AAA spawn capabilities and a limited Para Unit pool simulating a bigger Para drop) Once that pool is exhausted or destroyed a new unit needs to be flown in andL needs to set a new FMS. ( would encourage Teamwork between ground units The Airwing of the game and the Paratroopers. No fighter cover the success drops to low level of success.

 

4.Maybe have/give a group of 5 Engineers the ability to set a secondary Mobil FB that players can spawn from ( needs to be 5 to encourage team play) 

They can be driven to any spot of the map and then need to build a Mobil FB ( lets say 10 min build time) after that it becomes a secondary spawn point for that side. So when the 1st FB gets taken down there is still the back up FB that is a

Very solid ideas all around!

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Personally I think the way FMS is set up now is a good system. To remind people when the game started all we had was FBs. Spawnable depots didn't come until a few years later. And mobile spawns didn't come until several years after that. The issue isn't with how FMS is designed, it's an issue with player numbers and teamwork.

Right now someone sets up a FMS without any tank or ATG supports and I'd surprised that it gets camped. That's not a fault of the FMS, but if the way it is used. It's the same argument as capping a lone spawns me depot in town and saying that it gets camped and you can't spawn.

Identifying a FMS is hard already, and finding one from the air is not as easy as it sounds, and actually hitting it with a bomb is even harder than that. 

My only concern with FMS is the same problem all mobile spawns have. That tgey can be placed on the opposite side of town in what would be enemy territory behind the lines and used to spawn armies. It has gotten MUCH better with FMS since it is difficult to sneak a truck in vs a lone infantry planting UMS like weeds which is a great change to the mobile spawning system.

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I still think a para ML being able to create fms would be fun. And flag on inside of fms is a nice idea.

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On 11/21/2018 at 10:13 AM, dre21 said:

 

1. Let a truck set more then 1 FMS  up to 3 I would say.( 1enemy engineer can't stop an attack that way , also depending how you set the FMS they can cover each other and makes camping a lot harder)  3 ML could set 9 FMS on 1 AO alone . On spawn in you are given an option of you spawn points ( map pops up and shows you want to spawn A-B or C that way you can decide, but then there is always the spy factor and we just leave it as choose spawn point A-B or C without one knowing the location before one spawns in , worst case you have to respawn  and choose the next FMS if you don't like where you spawned in.

2. Minor redesign of FMS put the Nation's flag on the inside and give the Engineer the capabilities of building fake FMS . ( looks like an FMS but is not a spawn point , that's why the flag needs to be on the inside enemy has to go and give positive ID . FMS will also be hard to spot from the air that way)

3. Give Para ML the ability to set an FMS , you can drop over the river set FMS ( CRS needs to introduce the ParaEngineer) this FMS has ATG and AAA spawn capabilities and a limited Para Unit pool simulating a bigger Para drop) Once that pool is exhausted or destroyed a new unit needs to be flown in andL needs to set a new FMS. ( would encourage Teamwork between ground units The Airwing of the game and the Paratroopers. No fighter cover the success drops to low level of success.

4.Maybe have/give a group of 5 Engineers the ability to set a secondary Mobil FB that players can spawn from ( needs to be 5 to encourage team play) 

They can be driven to any spot of the map and then need to build a Mobil FB ( lets say 10 min build time) after that it becomes a secondary spawn point for that side. So when the 1st FB gets taken down there is still the back up FB that is a

 

Several concerns with unintended consequences of the above:

1) Way to many FMS causing the same problem as UMS before: too many spawn points made by lone ninjas that suddenly spawn an entire army to your rear. Attacking a town is hard and shoulder be hard.

2) A PPO fake FMS will make it pretty much impossible to spot or destroy any real FMS, same with the flag on the inside. A *well placed* FMS is already extremely difficult to spot from the ground or the air unless you are right next to it.

3) Same issue as #1: ninja para dropping behind your rear spawning armies. I have no issues with players making a wide flanking maneuver or dropping paras to surprise the enemy. But it should take teamwork and organization, and not a lone para jumping out of a Ju52 doing a kamikaze dive from 4k altitude to avoid EA on a one-way mission to spawn ATGs/AA/Inf behind enemy lines (because that is exactly how it will play out ingame when the playerbase figures out how to best game the system). If you want to place ATGs to the rear of an enemies lines do it the old fashioned way... get a truck to haul you, scout ahead to make sure you won't get ambushed, and surprise the enemy that way.

4) Don't disagree with single mobile FB, but what is to prevent a FB from magically popping up to your rear and tanks spawning from nowhere? Nothing was worse than the old UMS swim-across-the-river trick and start spamming spawn points. Impossible to defend, annoying, and broke the immersion of it being a battle.

 

One of the major differences in from the pre-mobile spawn days to the post-MS days is the ability to interdict the enemy, to set up realistic and *defendable* zones of control around a town which both increased immersion due to a lack of ninjas allowing armies to spawn in from the most obscure corners of a battle. One of the most ironic things about mobile spawns compared to the old days of the truck is that it now actually takes more time for infantry to get to battle than it did back in 2001. That is a consequence of poor teamwork/lack of squads (when was the last time you had a truck shuttling players from a FMS to town... yup, never).

Before since trucks were targets you would make sure that you had a good ZOC along your attack vector covered by tanks/ATGs. You would have good truck drivers who knew how close they could get to town and safely drop off. And on the defenders side they also had realistic ZOCs and expected attack vectors which meant you could set up ATGs before the attack. Could you still get flanked and have a surprise attack from the rear? Yes and it was devastating. But it also took a ton of work from the attackers to coordinate the timing of arrival and not get spotted by air recon units. Rather than a FMS model where one ninja can create a spawn point and in an instant ruin prepared defenses by spawning armies behind you lines.

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4 hours ago, aismov said:

Personally I think the way FMS is set up now is a good system. To remind people when the game started all we had was FBs. Spawnable depots didn't come until a few years later. And mobile spawns didn't come until several years after that. The issue isn't with how FMS is designed, it's an issue with player numbers and teamwork.

Right now someone sets up a FMS without any tank or ATG supports and I'd surprised that it gets camped. That's not a fault of the FMS, but if the way it is used. It's the same argument as capping a lone spawns me depot in town and saying that it gets camped and you can't spawn.

the thing is it's forced failure without a ZoC. not the attack, but getting any gameplay going. soo much relies on the FMS, but there's been a shortage of them since introduction, sometimes down to 1-2 on the entire server.

i'd say it's more like having no HC on than solo capping
 

 

2 hours ago, aismov said:

Before since trucks were targets you would make sure that you had a good ZOC along your attack vector covered by tanks/ATGs. You would have good truck drivers who knew how close they could get to town and safely drop off. And on the defenders side they also had realistic ZOCs and expected attack vectors which meant you could set up ATGs before the attack. Could you still get flanked and have a surprise attack from the rear? Yes and it was devastating. But it also took a ton of work from the attackers to coordinate the timing of arrival and not get spotted by air recon units. Rather than a FMS model where one ninja can create a spawn point and in an instant ruin prepared defenses by spawning armies behind you lines.

my argument is the defenders have it too easy, and it's hurting activity levels.

ATM, even lone wolf ZoC's can end a AO; it's not difficult to kill trucks, camp FMS's, intercept with air, or just ninja them with engies.

sure there should be a ZoC to protect them and build them, but there's a disproportionate amount of effort in getting them up (and generating gameplay) compared to taking them down, preventing them, or camping them.

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I agree that it can be easy to camp an FMS, but I think that is more due to the way players set them up than how they are coded in the game. A lot of this I think is an issue with their not being any real squad gameplay anymore. In a situation where you have a bunch of lone wolves there is no incentive for anyone to be the defender guy who hangs out with an ATG defending the FMS from a enemy tank that many never come. Without squads there is no ownership and no incentive.

It is a digital gameplay equivalent of the tragedy of the commons.

Why should I be the one having to hang back when everyone else gets to have fun and attack the town? It doesn't take a sociologist to figure out that it won't take long until nobody is defending the FMS since its "someone else's job." But with squads in the picture you suddenly have ownership and accountability. Today it may be your job to defend the FMS, but tomorrow it will be another squad members; and you rotate on down the squad roster. You don't want to let your teammates and friends down, and now suddenly a boring job actually may even be fun and you have a feeling of both contributing to the battle by ensuring the FMS stays up, and a feeling of accomplishment when you defend it succesefully and the "GJ!!!" messages start coming through on chat.

It is the same reason nobody tows ATGs any more when back in the day roads would be choked with halftracks rushing 88s into the battle. Seriously, when was the last time you saw an 88 towed to attack a town? With the 31st we wouldn't ever dream of attacking without 88s. Actually our entire squad attack strategy revolved around the careful positioning, support, and defense of the 88s which we pushed aggressively into an offensive role. Again currently without squads its the same as defending the FMS. Why should I tow a random blue tag and let him have all the fun?

"Its someone else's job to tow!"

Edited by aismov
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2 hours ago, aismov said:

Why should I be the one having to hang back when everyone else gets to have fun and attack the town?

The one thing about that is, the longer the FMS is up, the more you are likely to have to start shooting stuff
and suddenly you are no longer just hanging back.

During the steam launch when the gameworld was over run by greentags who of course knew little to nothing about the game
i went about the active battles looking for positions that were a bit out of the battle initially, but had good defensive position.
And set FMSes up in them, started laying the PPOs, showed the new guys how to set up PPOs and tried to explain what's going on in the game a bit
and about the time we had a decent set up, the FMS got spotted and a small contingent of the enemy would come after it, and the greentags got things to shoot at
in a surrounding that they at least had some familiarity with because they helped set it up.

We even did a few urban FMSes inside some towns, set up road blocks etc.
Did not take long, from the people spawning in and leaving the area, for enemy to come to us.

FMSes are usually highly targets, so if you are defending one, you will most likely get action coming to you
if you wait just a bit.

2 hours ago, aismov said:

With the 31st we wouldn't ever dream of attacking without 88s.

The 31st's tactics of using ORGANIZED SUPPORTED 88's with constant comms
still works extremely well, if one takes to doing it.

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19 hours ago, aismov said:

 

Several concerns with unintended consequences of the above:

1) Way to many FMS causing the same problem as UMS before: too many spawn points made by lone ninjas that suddenly spawn an entire army to your rear. Attacking a town is hard and shoulder be hard.

2) A PPO fake FMS will make it pretty much impossible to spot or destroy any real FMS, same with the flag on the inside. A *well placed* FMS is already extremely difficult to spot from the ground or the air unless you are right next to it.

3) Same issue as #1: ninja para dropping behind your rear spawning armies. I have no issues with players making a wide flanking maneuver or dropping paras to surprise the enemy. But it should take teamwork and organization, and not a lone para jumping out of a Ju52 doing a kamikaze dive from 4k altitude to avoid EA on a one-way mission to spawn ATGs/AA/Inf behind enemy lines (because that is exactly how it will play out ingame when the playerbase figures out how to best game the system). If you want to place ATGs to the rear of an enemies lines do it the old fashioned way... get a truck to haul you, scout ahead to make sure you won't get ambushed, and surprise the enemy that way.

4) Don't disagree with single mobile FB, but what is to prevent a FB from magically popping up to your rear and tanks spawning from nowhere? Nothing was worse than the old UMS swim-across-the-river trick and start spamming spawn points. Impossible to defend, annoying, and broke the immersion of it being a battle.

 

One of the major differences in from the pre-mobile spawn days to the post-MS days is the ability to interdict the enemy, to set up realistic and *defendable* zones of control around a town which both increased immersion due to a lack of ninjas allowing armies to spawn in from the most obscure corners of a battle. One of the most ironic things about mobile spawns compared to the old days of the truck is that it now actually takes more time for infantry to get to battle than it did back in 2001. That is a consequence of poor teamwork/lack of squads (when was the last time you had a truck shuttling players from a FMS to town... yup, never).

Before since trucks were targets you would make sure that you had a good ZOC along your attack vector covered by tanks/ATGs. You would have good truck drivers who knew how close they could get to town and safely drop off. And on the defenders side they also had realistic ZOCs and expected attack vectors which meant you could set up ATGs before the attack. Could you still get flanked and have a surprise attack from the rear? Yes and it was devastating. But it also took a ton of work from the attackers to coordinate the timing of arrival and not get spotted by air recon units. Rather than a FMS model where one ninja can create a spawn point and in an instant ruin prepared defenses by spawning armies behind you lines.

Well let me address your concerns.

To your 1 point :

It's still Truck set FMS so nothing Ninja about it . One can not [censored] about getting a FMS camped to fast , all a multiple FMS set will give you is options nothing more nothing less. You are forgetting back then we didn't needed to wait for a count down timer to cap a building , so getting Troops into town with a Truck made sense . Also we had no EWS system either if I remember that right . 

How long do you think players will try to run trucks into town full of INF just to get devastated by a Tank or an LMG . I say maybe 2 tries then the F ¥€k it attitude will be achieved. 

Do you know how often I find an EFMS with my Stugs? Way to many times more then I like to be all honest cause a Stug is not made to control a EFMS till friendly troops arrive . The complaint is not enough FMS letting a Truck which is noisy set multiple FMS seems the logical answer here.

 

Issue number 2 :

To complain there is aint enough FMS and the once that are set get camped to fast . So do you want a solution to the problem or not?

Flag inside the FMS is the 1st step reason for every soldier has Binocs spotting one is easy ( point me coming across them with Stug)  Once spotted cause they have a certain design they get marked and with that everybody on the other side now knows where and what direction to look for incoming INF making it real easy to defend and with the lack of set FMS it makes it super easy. Now Truck sets multiple FMS this task of knowing where the enemy is coming from has just gotten a bit harder and one doesn't get camped to death in a heart beat. ( hard enough to keep attacking AOs going period).

Now one can set fake PPOs spawnbunkers, the enemy doesn't know where the real one is and it now will have to be investigated and one has to either start taking them down one by one or give a positive ID vis visual confirmation by either seeing the other side spawn or go to it and look if flag is inside. BTW I would leave Fake PPO by one satchel while the real FMS still takes 4 maybe even bump it up to 5 so 1 lone ENG can't take it down.

Issue number 3:

Paras used to drop behind enemy lines to disrupt supply lines take or demolish bridges. Do we have any of that in game not really , easier to bomb a bridge then fly Paratroopers in, we also really don't fight over bridges unless a bridge is in a Town that's AOed and I doubt we will drop many Paras with a lot of success over a heavily defended AO they usually don't last long 2 drops maybe then the Fu €k it attitude creeps up again why spend 30 min to either get shot down by EA or die within seconds of landing . I don't call that fun sorry.

I also said small spawn pool for Para units, once exhausted new FMS needs to be set and they need to be flown in again. In my eyes ( my opinion and I used to be in a Parasquad with Xoom) 

Only paras should be able to take towns with no Flags even behind the Front to get the supplyline thing into effect, and the other side could only recap with Para unit. Let's be honest Paras is one of those units where Teamwork is really a big thing.  And to keep a fight going for a No Flag town a small limited spawnpool of Paras is needed . The FMS with the ability to spawn 2 of each AAA and ATG would make sense also for EA and you know we would have players that would drive 232 and Pans and Dacs to these towns.

Issue 4:

1st of it doesn't magically appear , it takes Teamwork 5 Eng and a driver and time , let's say 10 min to set a alternate FB  .

2nd it keep an attack going once the 1st FB gets blown ( and we know FBS don't get defended like in the olden days) .

It would also force the defenders to look for the FB , now we have it FB gets blown attack is over most players leave cause they know AO gets pulled usually within minutes .

3rd ever drive a Tank out of the way to set up in a good spot and the AO gets pulled just as you get there or on route to? I have plenty of times ( tanks is what I like to play ) it's a waste of time so that's why 95% of the time I play defence cause I got tired of getting an AO pulled from underneath my [censored].

 

 

In short more FMS more options , fake FMS less camped FMS more troops to the AO , attacks stay active a lot longer same goes with the 2nd FB plus it give the attacker more options . After all defenders can sit and let the enemy come to one. Paras more game play options then what we have now . Overall in my eyes and my opinion more options = more fun and possibilities. 

I don't want UMS back like you said the Ninja INF , Paratroopers are the only exception and they be extremely limited in the spawn pool aspect of it .

And I think your concern can be fixed with a Paratrooper icon added to our EWS we have in game .

 

19 hours ago, aismov said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dre21

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14 hours ago, aismov said:

I agree that it can be easy to camp an FMS, but I think that is more due to the way players set them up than how they are coded in the game. A lot of this I think is an issue with their not being any real squad gameplay anymore. In a situation where you have a bunch of lone wolves there is no incentive for anyone to be the defender guy who hangs out with an ATG defending the FMS from a enemy tank that many never come. Without squads there is no ownership and no incentive.

It is a digital gameplay equivalent of the tragedy of the commons.

Why should I be the one having to hang back when everyone else gets to have fun and attack the town? It doesn't take a sociologist to figure out that it won't take long until nobody is defending the FMS since its "someone else's job." But with squads in the picture you suddenly have ownership and accountability. Today it may be your job to defend the FMS, but tomorrow it will be another squad members; and you rotate on down the squad roster. You don't want to let your teammates and friends down, and now suddenly a boring job actually may even be fun and you have a feeling of both contributing to the battle by ensuring the FMS stays up, and a feeling of accomplishment when you defend it succesefully and the "GJ!!!" messages start coming through on chat.

It is the same reason nobody tows ATGs any more when back in the day roads would be choked with halftracks rushing 88s into the battle. Seriously, when was the last time you saw an 88 towed to attack a town? With the 31st we wouldn't ever dream of attacking without 88s. Actually our entire squad attack strategy revolved around the careful positioning, support, and defense of the 88s which we pushed aggressively into an offensive role. Again currently without squads its the same as defending the FMS. Why should I tow a random blue tag and let him have all the fun?

"Its someone else's job to tow!"

the thing is squads do try, again, the organization/teamwork/ZoC work both ways. a squad preventing FMS or camping them has it much much easier than the squad building them

to the point where lone wolfs can counter a squad.

 

again, not saying the players are a disorganized mess 24/7, its just the guys fighting the FMS's have it way too easy and it's detrimental to the overall gameplay

 

i get where your coming from, but when i can solo defend 2 squads trying to set up a town on their squad night, something is wrong.

my lone wolfing ruined 2 squads fun. it was easy...

AO up, i spawned a 232, took out the first wave from 800m (could hear them from the FB), got killed by a tank, spawned a engie killed a few more trucks by jogging intercepting while they were building. got a FMS with charges (at this point there were many other defenders) then there was 1 left, we quickly focused on that area cause thats where we could play the game then after about 10min it was camped.

 

it's too easy...

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@major0noob it sounds to me more of an issue that the attacking force didn't get their act together. They plopped down an undefended FMS as step 1 and then got surprised that the enemy was looking out for them. All it would have taken is 3-4 tanks with the FMS positioned behind them and 1-2 flanking infantry and you wouldn't be getting anywhere near the FMS. It would have been the city defenders who would be getting mowed down.

The problem is that the order of attack by players is backwards: AO > FMS setup > Infantry Cap > Tanks finally reach town. When it should be pretty much the reverse, roll in the tanks, establish a solid ZOC close to spawnable depot, cap it and set up secondary FMS safely within your ZOC. We hear it all the time on the chat "set up FMS, AO going up!!!" Rather than "tank column forming, AO going up in 15 minutes!!!" But again thats an issue with squads/AOs/HC/bluetags. You simply can't get the level of coordination to form a tank column and not have it devolve into a free for all without squads. The only group that was ever able to pull that off was the 94th Armored and even they had a core group of guys on voice comms and just told the blue tags to follow their lead and not deviate.

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your ignoring this part

1 hour ago, major0noob said:

spawned a engie killed a few more trucks by jogging intercepting while they were building. got a FMS with charges (at this point there were many other defenders) then there was 1 left

this was me solo, happened daily but this was just the biggest i faced.

it happens constantly in AO's, the defenders ZoC doesn't need to worry about the tanks. all they need to focus on are the FMS's and trucks. (the tank that got my 232 didn't get my engie)

 

look, i get they could be better organized, but it's a unreasonable amount of teamwork and skill when compared to the defenders.

rambo-ing a squad shouldn't pay off, the ease of killing trucks and camping FMS's allows it though.

 

 

again, my point is the guys fighting the people setting spawns are not co-ordinated, they don't use teamwork, and they are not squads. yet they have the upper hand on people playing organized with teamwork.

Edited by major0noob

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