major0noob

"generating activity" game philosophy/attitude, can it be directed to the FMS

135 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Actually, if I were redoing the RDP I would put in the railyards as a major bombing target on the same level as factories.

Atlantic docks for Allied supply, particularly American.

Completely agree. And convoys too. Both the Axis and the Allies (and not just the British) relied very heavily on shipping to support various industries within their war effort.

I think the big thing that is holding back this part of RDP is the inability to spawn into a player-controlled defensive position on an AI controlled moving, persistent world object such as an AA gunner on a supply train or convoy. Not to get too off topic but doing this, along with allowing players to spawn into a control position, is what would allow the naval game to flourish. Capital ships, submarines... all of them could be under AI control and players could spawn into positions to fight when it is under attack.

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the number of FMS's at AO's speak for itself, so does the fact that we give up on most AO's after 15min.

 

the FRU had problems, but the gameplay brought on by the FMS has problems of it's own.

in my opinion a dead map is worse than a magic box. you're not gonna change your view and i won't change mine

 

the thing i want to argue: is the lack of FMS's and AO's petering out constantly ok?

there's been lots of talk about a lack of teamwork and leadership, but shouldn't they accomplish a win instead of a single spawn.

is it ok for lone wolf/ninja/rambos beating the teams making FMS's?

 

nobody will talk about the ease of killing attacks, only the skill needed to beat the truck/FMS hunters. again, the number of FMS's being built and AO's dieing after 15min speak for themselves.

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Registered so I could put in my two cents here (Steam User) - It seems to me the main issue of FMS fall off has been the removing trucks from free accounts. People used to run trucks with a secondary account, making them much more willing to put in that grunt work while allowing them to play in the attack as well. Take away that ability and volume of FMS falls. Volume of FMS falls and you have less effective (and boring) attacks, which then leads to failed attacks and lower activity. 

I think the idea of a riflemen or rifle/smg only FMS as a way to build a secure zone of control before bringing in a truck is a smart idea. It is also a solution that doesn't require a complicated 15+ player op. 3-5 players can coordinate and take care of business, opening up an avenue for a proper FMS which opens up an effective attack. To limit the idea of a ninja attack going way around to the rear or secretly crossing a river, couldn't a distance limit be placed on such an "infantry FMS" so that it can only be so far from from the FB as a % of the distance from the FB to the town that is being attacked (say 90%).

The key aspect to keeping a FMS alive is zone of control - but I find the FMS is easily outflanked when discovered by tanks and removed from the equation and considering coordinating enough players for an effective establishment of a FMS with AT guns rolled in and maybe even tank support is extremely difficult due to low population, perhaps there should be a tweak to allow some of the more powerful AT (but not the most powerful) spawn at the FMS? At least until activity can be upped and larger events/attacks coordinated.

 

We have a chicken and egg conundrum with activity. Need effective/fun AO's (which leads to fun DO's) to gather up activity and excite people to play the game (and pay). But need...something... to create that atmosphere to attract players. All I have seen is generally negative attitude to some creative ideas here and in the end it boils down to two, useless, solutions: 1- "Get good at attacking scrub" and 2- "Gather up 15-30 players before attacking" 

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8 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Actually, if I were redoing the RDP I would put in the railyards as a major bombing target on the same level as factories.

Well, actually they were supposed to be.
It is part of something larger that did not get out of the cradle a very very long time ago.

There was an overall plan for supply / rdp / movement of supply, but through lots of setback which you know all about, that plan got put on the back burner, then the self, then fell off the shelf and landed on the floor someplace.

It will take some good amount of time, when and as resources permit, to resurrect that plan from the ashes.

in a nutshell the original mechanic was to work like this

Towns generate resources, raw materials
Towns store these in particular building types
Certain building types enhance production. (Type, something you can not see, as opposed to visual model)

From the storage the resources go to the depots
Of which initially there were several types, from rail transport, to cart hauled and man carried
The depots transported the raw materials to the factories, at the speed of the depot type, to the next depot in the line.
So a small farm town may have to send by horse cart to the next larger town, who sends by truck for several towns before hitting a rail facility.

BRIDGES were detected by the transportation AI
If a bridge was down, the AI could not cross until it repaired the bridge
It cost raw materials to repair the bridge, if the AI did not have enough, the materials get consumed and the bridge is only partly repaired.

Equipment coming from factories follow the same transportation (except it does not arrive by horse cart LOL)
so same rule for bridges.

Blowing up key objects in a town would cause a loss of raw materials (Called RP by the way)
Blowing up depots or rail transport objects would act kind of like a downed bridge
THe town would spend RP to repair it so it could work again
While it was down the town either could not get stuff in, or it got very slowed down, i am not clear on which.

I did not mention it, but YES ship transport was also a thing in this mechanic.

All you need to add to that is a visable contingent to that (AI transport convoys)
And the mechanic is complete for the most part, it was a good solid yet simple concept.

We only ever got a very small part of that in game, but it went away when we got factory RDP
It got chopped down to just the end result unfortunately.

I am typing this solely from memory, so if i overlook a piece or something sorry.

But that is something that we would basically have to build again from scratch, and i am sure there would be things to add to it
but it would entail a lot of work and all of it is host side nearly

 

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2 hours ago, major0noob said:

n my opinion a dead map is worse than a magic box.

Pretty accurate IMO

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2 hours ago, romae1 said:

Registered so I could put in my two cents here (Steam User) - It seems to me the main issue of FMS fall off has been the removing trucks from free accounts. People used to run trucks with a secondary account, making them much more willing to put in that grunt work while allowing them to play in the attack as well. Take away that ability and volume of FMS falls. Volume of FMS falls and you have less effective (and boring) attacks, which then leads to failed attacks and lower activity. 

I think the idea of a riflemen or rifle/smg only FMS as a way to build a secure zone of control before bringing in a truck is a smart idea. It is also a solution that doesn't require a complicated 15+ player op. 3-5 players can coordinate and take care of business, opening up an avenue for a proper FMS which opens up an effective attack. To limit the idea of a ninja attack going way around to the rear or secretly crossing a river, couldn't a distance limit be placed on such an "infantry FMS" so that it can only be so far from from the FB as a % of the distance from the FB to the town that is being attacked (say 90%).

The key aspect to keeping a FMS alive is zone of control - but I find the FMS is easily outflanked when discovered by tanks and removed from the equation and considering coordinating enough players for an effective establishment of a FMS with AT guns rolled in and maybe even tank support is extremely difficult due to low population, perhaps there should be a tweak to allow some of the more powerful AT (but not the most powerful) spawn at the FMS? At least until activity can be upped and larger events/attacks coordinated.

 

We have a chicken and egg conundrum with activity. Need effective/fun AO's (which leads to fun DO's) to gather up activity and excite people to play the game (and pay). But need...something... to create that atmosphere to attract players. All I have seen is generally negative attitude to some creative ideas here and in the end it boils down to two, useless, solutions: 1- "Get good at attacking scrub" and 2- "Gather up 15-30 players before attacking" 

yeah we had the issue of "only hardcore multiple account people make FMS's" with 3 min build times. back when i could walk to 3 trucks and wipe out a AO solo

suggesting lower build times back then got a mountain of resistance

still, with the second account guys not building them there's still the issue of regulars not building them.

 

welcome to the forums, you'll find this is a game with a looooong history, some people are still stuck to issues from when AO's were introduced, others are up to the most recent patch. we all love the game but we fight for the rats patch attention S!. needles to say, issues are our favorite topic.

 

the rats do pay attention (they are really cool in my book for this), but there are more serious issues we don't pay much attention to, like the new colo thing, getting new software, and volunteers. they've finally been able to do stuff they wanted to do 10 years ago, in the past 2. they've even been keeping everyone up to date with rat chats, going so far as talking to the players in game

Edited by major0noob

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Thanks for the welcome. Appreciate it. I know the game has a much longer history than I have been here (5ish months?). I'm a full account subscriber so I figured I should put some of my thoughts in and I'd consider myself somewhat unbiased lol

I can't speak to the 3 minute set up timer but I do know that before the changes to free account access, there would be several people running second accounts to have trucks/FMS' being set up constantly so that they could drop off a load of guys, set up a FMS and be in the fight. Though, thinking back, some of this was more concentrated on blowing FBs. We also had some solid hot drops on ABs and into larger cities. It just seems the volume decreased since the adjustment. 

But everyone has their biases and thoughts. I find it interesting that I have heard all of the allied gripes since I play exclusively allied - hearing about how CRS never fixes the bugged items on the German side that make it impossible to kill them, or laser LMGs, or the LMGs that are perfect for spray and pray clearing out a bunker. And don't even get me started on the Tiger lol. Last night alone we were hitting a tiger from 3 angles and the bastage didn't blow up. Hell, I snuck behind a tiger with a Stuart and hit the thing 8 times directly in the rear and it didn't get damaged (though the Stuart has a small gun... so I am sure that was the problem). 

Now I hop on here and see the axis making the same exact complaints, only going further in saying that CRS actively fixes allied issue but ignores axis ones. Since both sides are unhappy, seems CRS has done a good job of balancing their attention between the two sides. I'd be more concerned if one side was happy and one angry. 

But I digress. I think there are a few things that can be considered that I am unsure of how easy to fix. I saw a lot of good ideas: Lower truck volume, lower build time for FMS, infantry only MS (with spawn limits) to set up ZOC. I think simply adding trucks back to free accounts will do much and more. 

I also suggested, when I took the survey, that CRS should consider tiered accounts. Not everyone can afford $15 a month, and some people only want the basics without a need for tanks/planes/ships. Tiered accounts could open up more avenues for people to pay, netting an overall greater revenue and get more buy in from people outside of its current playerbase (a $5 access for all infantry, artillery and trucks could be more enticing than $15 sub), which in turn means more activity. 

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:38 AM, romae1 said:

But everyone has their biases and thoughts. I find it interesting that I have heard all of the allied gripes since I play exclusively allied - hearing about how CRS never fixes the bugged items on the German side that make it impossible to kill them, or laser LMGs, or the LMGs that are perfect for spray and pray clearing out a bunker. And don't even get me started on the Tiger lol. Last night alone we were hitting a tiger from 3 angles and the bastage didn't blow up. Hell, I snuck behind a tiger with a Stuart and hit the thing 8 times directly in the rear and it didn't get damaged (though the Stuart has a small gun... so I am sure that was the problem). 

i've been here long enough to be a part of all these conversations, and provide bug reports!

the unkillable bug is almost always packet loss, it's really common cause people like to play for 3 hour sessions. a lot of weird stuff can happen after a hour, the fix is the client needs to reset the game. if it happens to everyone in a town then the server needs to reset, either by the rats or by moving to a new area of the map. the server side unkillable bug is rare but the client unkillable bug is rampant.

the unkillable bug also works both ways, you can't kill them and they can't kill you. so it may be either person with the bug

if it happens with tanks it's usually offset: the tank is rendered up to 5m away from where it really is, even .5m can make most tanks unkillable

 

the LMG is a huge can of worms, it is BS in it's CQB abilities, but the allies go too far with their suggested fixes. there was a point where hip fire would be removed from LMG's. instead of something reasonable.

 

the tiger numbers, i was a advocate of this (even while playing allied). the current numbers are from when we had more population, up to 10 tankers would be on both sides and tigers/S76's would make only 1/2 of the first wave. after that it was baby sherms vs 4g's. the 4g had a clear disadvantage over the baby sherms, it was .6 - .9 K/D. the stugs and M10's were great equilizers but the population of dedicated tankers has slumped too low, used to be regular convoys, then pairs, then lone wolfs with good inter-tank situational awareness, now tankers are lone wolfs with their own ZoC's. the tigers dominate the last 2, while sherm75/4G's and tank destroyers are the kings of the rest.

a pair of M10+sherm75 can easily take out 6 lone wolf tigers (me and my tanker buddy did this often), and convoys vs convoys was it's own game, we used to have ZoC's surrounding a town and convoys from the next town over wrestling it out. now it's tiger vs s76.

(i can go on forever about tanking)

 

the tigers really should be reduced, but so should every other tank, if not for the current population, then for the sake of their pure inf-killing power

Edited by major0noob

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Both sides [censored] and moan about the same things. I just played a campaign Allies and the same things come up just as on the Axis side. 

Just like me shooting HE and 3 belts of MG from my Sherman onto a pak36 just to see him readjust and blow me up to high heaven , just as I experience on the Axis side.

But back to topic.

The solution seems to be. So all parties are happy. 

Lower the FMS bild time. 

Lower the AWS range aka let trucks get closer before AWS goes off.

Maybe lower the Truck sound a tad bit.

Give F2P account the Trucks back.

And my own wish more PPO options so we can secure the FMS a lot better from being camped ( see my post in the idea section about clusters of barricades)

But lone inf ML setting up a FMS is not the answer unless you want to kill the rest of the Tank game even if they only get to spawn Rifle units.

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19 minutes ago, dre21 said:

But lone inf ML setting up a FMS is not the answer unless you want to kill the rest of the Tank game even if they only get to spawn Rifle units.

i agree completely and wholeheartedly. but in my mind, inactive AO's are the worst possible state of the game.

the only reason i ever bring it up is cause it did bring more activity to AO's (though dirty and chaotic activity)

 

 

i apologize for being contentious to everything... i just can't accept the low intensity battles

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